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British-Irish Co-operation

Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 7 December 2021

Tuesday, 7 December 2021

Questions (16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24)

Mary Lou McDonald

Question:

16. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent attendance at the British-Irish Council. [58383/21]

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Neale Richmond

Question:

17. Deputy Neale Richmond asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his most recent exchange with the UK Prime Minister. [58576/21]

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Peadar Tóibín

Question:

18. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent attendance at the British-Irish Council. [60077/21]

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Alan Kelly

Question:

19. Deputy Alan Kelly asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent attendance at the British-Irish Council. [60112/21]

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Seán Haughey

Question:

20. Deputy Seán Haughey asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the recent British-Irish Council. [60164/21]

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Richard Boyd Barrett

Question:

21. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his most recent exchange with the UK Prime Minister. [60202/21]

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Paul Murphy

Question:

22. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his most recent exchange with the UK Prime Minister. [60205/21]

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Alan Kelly

Question:

23. Deputy Alan Kelly asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his most recent exchange with the UK Prime Minister. [60116/21]

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Dara Calleary

Question:

24. Deputy Dara Calleary asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his most recent exchange with the UK Prime Minister. [60568/21]

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Oral answers (14 contributions)

I propose to take Questions Nos. 16 to 24, inclusive, together.

I attended the 36th summit meeting of the British-Irish Council hosted by the First Minister of Wales, Mark Drakeford, in Cardiff on 18 and 19 November. The council explored approaches to the acquisition of indigenous, minority and lesser used languages in early years settings. I welcomed the opportunity to provide an update to council members through Irish, as a means of showcasing the rich linguistic diversity across the administrations of the British-Irish Council.

The council also discussed the latest political developments, including the ongoing impact of Covid-19 across all administrations and on the protocol. On the morning of the summit, First Minister Mark Drakeford hosted a breakfast meeting for heads of delegation. Discussions focused on climate issues in light of recent developments at COP26.

I also had bilateral meetings with the Secretary of State, Michael Gove, the First Minister, Mark Drakeford, and the First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, and participated in a business programme organised by Enterprise Ireland and the consulate general in Cardiff where we met a number of Irish companies which export to Wales and have a significant presence there.

Regarding my latest discussions with the UK Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, we spoke by phone on Wednesday, 24 November. I congratulated him on the successful hosting of COP26 in Glasgow and we briefly referenced the latest developments in relation to Covid-19. We then discussed the Northern Ireland protocol. I welcomed the continuation of the talks between the European Union and United Kingdom on the implementation of the protocol and said that it was essential that these now lead to substantive progress and joint tangible solutions within the framework of the protocol. I emphasised to the Prime Minister that it was vital for stability in Northern Ireland, the British-Irish relationship and the wider EU-UK relationship that this would be resolved through agreed solutions. I reiterated the European Union's commitment to addressing genuine implementation issues and reducing friction and administrative burdens on goods moving from Great Britain to Northern Ireland. I said it was the view of the Irish Government that the latest proposals from the European Union go very far in seeking to respond to issues raised, especially by the business community.

The Prime Minister stated he was committed to agreeing a deal if at all possible. However, he highlighted certain areas where he considered further progress was required. He said he did not wish to trigger Article 16 but noted that it remained a possibility where resolution was not reached through the current talks process. I repeated our view that any triggering of Article 16 would have far-reaching implications for stability in Northern Ireland, the British-Irish relationship and the wider EU-UK relationship. We agreed that co-operation between our two Governments is key to ensuring peace and stability in Northern Ireland, which is a priority for both Governments.

As the Taoiseach set out, the recent meeting of the British-Irish Council provided the opportunity for attendees to use indigenous, minority and lesser used languages. As the Taoiseach is aware, the Westminster Government has agreed to legislate for the Irish language, making Gaeilge an official language in the North. Has the Taoiseach used the British-Irish Council or any other opportunity to raise this commitment with the British Government? If so, can he provide details of these engagements?

As we have previously discussed, the Irish language will have full working rights in the EU from 1 January 2022. As a result, all new statutes will be made available in Irish, including regulations, directives and decisions. Is it not a cause of concern for the Taoiseach that while Irish language rights are advancing elsewhere, his Government is appealing a High Court judgment that simply reaffirms the constitutional duty of the State to provide Irish language versions of Acts of the Oireachtas?

The British-Irish and North-South strands of the Good Friday Agreement are critical democratic structures. At the July meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council, it was agreed that the next plenary would be held in December this year. Will the Taoiseach tell us when this meeting will occur and what action he has taken to ensure it takes place?

There is a crisis of confidence in policing in many nationalist and republican areas in the North of Ireland. That is not a wild claim. It is a real issue. A PSNI report on policing in south Armagh stated that little progress had been achieved on policing in south Armagh since the Good Friday Agreement. South Armagh is not alone. I have spoken to nationalists from Tyrone and Derry who have told me that PSNI policing is heavy-handed and militaristic. This has created a significant divide in these communities. In 2019 and 2020, there were only 16 emergency calls made to the PSNI station in Crossmaglen. That is incredible. The Aontú councillor in Derry, Emmet Doyle, has asked me to invite the Chief Constable of the PSNI to the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement to discuss the policing crisis in many nationalist areas in the North. I have made this request and understand that the invitation has gone out. I ask the Taoiseach to speak to the Chief Constable of the PSNI to see if we can address the crisis of policing in nationalist areas in the North of Ireland. Will he use the British-Irish Council to fix this disaster?

I welcome the fact the British Government seems to be drawing back from introducing legislation on legacy and also that it is dialling down the rhetoric on invoking Article 16. On the British-Irish Council, I am pleased the Taoiseach was able to attend the meeting. It seems a wide range of issues were discussed, including economic matters, trade, ongoing relations with the EU, COP26, Covid-19, and post-pandemic recovery. As the Taoiseach knows, the council was established in 1998 under the Good Friday Agreement to consider issues arising from the totality of relationships on these islands. There is no doubt Brexit has brought about change in these relationships so it is very important this forum meets regularly and is developed and enhanced. The agenda of the meeting last month was quite formal. Did the Taoiseach get any sense from the various delegations from the devolved administrations that Brexit was a bad idea and that it is having adverse implications for trade and economic progress generally in the various jurisdictions?

Did the Taoiseach and the UK Prime Minister discuss the issue of trade union and workers' rights in both Britain and the North? In the 1980s, Margaret Thatcher took a hatchet to workers and the trade union movement and brought in very draconian anti-worker and anti-trade union legislation to tie the hands of workers and limit their ability to take effective action to defend their rights. What is perhaps less well known is that the Northern Assembly has the power to repeal the anti-trade union laws Thatcher brought in but has failed to do so. It is somewhat disappointing that Sinn Féin has not done this. In order to address this deficit, People Before Profit MLA, Gerry Carroll, has brought forward a trade union freedom Bill to try to undo some of the anti-trade union legislation which is being brought into the Assembly. With all the talk of it being payback time for workers after Covid, this is the right time to call for the Thatcherite anti-trade union laws to be repealed in the Assembly. I wonder what the Taoiseach thinks. I hope all parties in the Assembly will support the legislation Gerry Carroll is bringing forward.

The idea of an amnesty in regard to legacy issues, as proposed by the British Government, is absolutely reprehensible. An amnesty would mean putting an end to all investigations and prosecutions. The Stormont House Agreement is a balanced and comprehensive framework to deal with legacy issues and should be implemented. It is unbelievable to think any government would want to cut off all potential avenues to the truth. Such an idea is absolutely deplorable.

Some family members have invested huge time, effort and resources - some have literally given up their entire lives - trying to get the truth about what happened to a loved one, be that a sibling, a parent or another relative. It is unthinkable that a unilateral decision would be made by the British Government. Not alone are the political parties in this State and our Government against such an amnesty, but the Northern Ireland Assembly voted unanimously last August in opposition to that proposal. The United Nations, the Council of Europe and senior political figures in the United States oppose it as well. We want to drive home to the British Government the message that it is totally unacceptable.

I wish to briefly raise my concern about the continuing boycott of meetings of the North-South Ministerial Council by certain parties in the Northern Ireland Executive and how that is impacting at a time when so many studies and Irish Government initiatives are showing not just the importance but the opportunities of cross-Border initiatives from an economic and social point of view. Seeing the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Harris, in the North visiting Queen's University Belfast and Ulster University Magee campus yesterday shows the real potential in higher education and indeed the wider shared island initiative. As we come to the end of this calendar year, with elections in Northern Ireland next year and the sword of Damocles continuing to hang over us in the British Government's threat to trigger Article 16, where are we on ensuring we can get an element of normality back into relations not just North-South but also east-west?

Deputy McDonald raised the issue of an Irish language Act which we understand will be introduced in Westminster. I do not know if it will be done before the recess but certainly it will be done early in the new year. It is a pity it was not done in the Assembly, as agreed last year. The package of language and identity legislation agreed under New Decade, New Approach was detailed, balanced and should be implemented. When I was in Enniskillen recently at the remembrance ceremony I met the Minister of State for Northern Ireland, Conor Burns. He seemed to be of the view it would be coming forward. He was quite well disposed to getting this done, as was committed to.

Deputy Tóibín raised the issue of the crisis of confidence. We need to be careful in our language here. We need to work to build up confidence.

This is in a document from the PSNI.

We need to encourage people to join the police force. I do not think it is happening to the same extent as it did before. I was involved in the devolution of justice at the time, when I was Minister for Foreign Affairs. It was hard negotiated and worked for. The Patten reforms were transformational. We should work to ensure we can build on them. If we keep using language that to me is a bit pejorative or denigrates everybody, we will never do it and we will never get there.

It is like the chicken and egg. If we do not reform the PSNI, we will not get people to join it.

There was a fair bit of momentum there for quite some time but then people started resiling from encouraging people to join the PSNI. We need to get the balance right across communities so they are represented in the composition and so on.

Will the Taoiseach meet the PSNI Chief Constable?

It is essential and I do not want to see it deteriorating.

Deputy Haughey raised the issue of what transpired at the British-Irish Council. He made a very good point on Brexit. The First Minister of Wales was very clear on the negative impact of Brexit on Wales, in particular the decline in the volume of goods going through Welsh ports. The Welsh are very worried about the long-term impact on their ports, the consequent impact on local economies and the pattern of trade that is developing in the form of direct links between Ireland and the Continent. The Welsh Government is very aware of that. The First Minister of Scotland was also critical of the impact of Brexit. Importantly, both were very clear in their articulation to the British representative, the Secretary of State, Michael Gove, that they did not need any more disruption around Brexit. The last thing all of us on the council need is more disruption, such as triggering Article 16 and causing a further row with the European Union. The very clear message from all the others at the council to the British Government essentially is that it should resolve this within the framework between it and the European Union. It was quite useful from that perspective.

The British-Irish Council is a formal set-up but the informal side of it is better. The breakfast hosted by First Minister Drakeford was very useful, in particular on COP and climate and whether we could do more at a British-Irish level, for example, by having our own mini-COP26, which would be a proper conference on what all the administrations can do in respect of climate and energy, specifically wind energy, wave energy and so on.

On Deputy Boyd Barrett's question, I did not raise trade union rights with the British Prime Minister at my last meeting, a phone call with him, which was overwhelmingly about the protocol. However, I note the measures the Deputy's party is promoting in the Northern Ireland Assembly. I have not seen the exact details of the Bill. I favour the right of trade unions to assemble, work and advocate on behalf of their workers.

Deputy Brendan Smith again raised the issue of legacy. I met some relatives of victims of the Glennane gang recently at the request of Deputy Tóibín. I am totally opposed to the British Government's proposal for a number of reasons. Not only does it prevent the truth from getting out in respect of murder and killings by all groups, it potentially leaves the British Army off the hook in terms of some activities. There was collusion involving the Glennane gang and loyalist paramilitaries. There were Provisional IRA killings and murders for which there have been no closure and no accountability. Families are not getting enough information. Why the most heinous of crimes would be buried, if you like, by such an amnesty is something I cannot comprehend. I do not understand how those who perpetrated such crimes should be left off the hook like that without any obligation to be accountable to the families and give them some closure as to who murdered their loved ones. I say this genuinely. I saw last night's programme and it was particularly sad for the relatives of those who lost their lives. They have had absolutely no closure. No one has spoken to them and it has not been resolved.

Deputy Richmond raised the North-South Ministerial Council.

Reflecting on this, since the Good Friday Agreement, the institutions have not been working for close to ten years. There has been too much stop-start with the institutions and, therefore, we are going through our current challenging period because of Northern Ireland protocol issues that remain to be resolved between the British Government and the European Union. That is affecting the operation of the institutions. The Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Simon Coveney, and I brought a joint memo to Cabinet today updating it on North-South co-operation. A lot of good stuff is happening with the shared island initiative, which is gathering great momentum. We will work at this and the best way is to resolve the issues.

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