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Work Permits

Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 9 December 2021

Thursday, 9 December 2021

Questions (88)

Éamon Ó Cuív

Question:

88. Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment his plans to widen the sectors that are eligible for work permits; the steps he will take to streamline the system of issuing these permits; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [60444/21]

View answer

Oral answers (18 contributions)

One of the perennial issues throughout the history of this country relates to how many sectors are short of labour. Time and again, even when looking for State services, we hear the mantra no labour is available. If there is genuinely no labour available here, a debate we could have with the Ministers for Social Protection and Finance in respect of incentives, what will the Government do to ensure vital services are available in this country?

The question related to the permit, so I will focus on that in a moment. In general, we try to analyse and identify any areas where there are critical skills gaps or a shortage of labour. The Department regularly engages with stakeholders through the various forums and also individually with different sectors and groups. We carry out a detailed analysis twice a year on every sector in respect of which shortages have been identified. Where evidence that is gathered clearly identifies shortages, we react and change the process for permits, something I will return to presently.

That is only one measure. The best way to deal with labour shortages is to predict them and invest the funding and various supports in all levels of education to address that. That is what we try to do to work more clearly and directly with the various sectors. Following reforms of the past ten years, we have a very enterprise-facing education system, through further education and training and all the commitments and announcements regarding apprenticeships, skills and on-the-job training, along with investment in higher education, research and innovation to drive automation. Every effort is made to deal with skills gaps and to work with the relevant sectors. The Deputy asked about the employment permit scheme, a regime designed to facilitate the entry of appropriately qualified non-EEA workers to fill skills and labour shortages in Ireland. This objective must, however, be balanced by the need to ensure no suitably qualified Irish or EEA nationals are available to undertake the work and that the shortage is genuine. We look for evidence, backed up by the parent Department, that the shortage is genuine and every effort is made to source that labour or talent locally. It is sometimes difficult to explain.

If there are, potentially, 40,000 people on the pandemic unemployment payment, PUP, and another 150,000 people on long-term or short-term social welfare, it is sometimes hard to explain how we also need to bring in other talent. We try to close those gaps by working through the Department of Social Protection and with employers through the range of schemes, such as pathways to work, to join the dots there and try to get people who have various skills, and through upskilling if needs be, to fill those job vacancies. Where that cannot happen we use the permits scheme to bring people in as well.

On Tuesday night, I raised the shortage of home care workers. It is a skilled job but one that does not require much formal qualification. It appears that the Government's system in this case finds it impossible to get enough people in the State to provide those services. People who are in critical situations are not getting care. On the other hand, I understand that the work permit system is so restrictive that it is not possible to bring in people where there are none available to do home care. Has the Minister of State had discussions with his colleagues on whether we should issue work permits to people to come here to provide these vital front-line services in the community? We saw in the Covid-19 pandemic how advantageous home care is in many cases as an alternative to nursing home care.

I acknowledge the Minister of State's work and assistance in this area. However, Deputy Ó Cuív is right. We have gone the full circle. There are families and people across the country for whom we could not get home help hours for a long time because the resources were not available. Now the hours are available, but we do not have the people. Families are being left in appalling situations. Loved ones are being left in hospitals, unable to leave, because we cannot get home care workers. They are available internationally. We require a system with flexibility whereby families can get their loved ones cared for at home through some type of change to the work permits system. This is very urgent. There are thousands of people and families awaiting home care at present who cannot get it due to the lack of staff.

I join my colleagues in asking the Minister of State to look at ways of streamlining the system. I have met farmers who are facing into a very busy period at present with milking, cows calving and so forth. It is a 24-7 job with health and safety issues involved. They have identified workers abroad in places such as the Philippines, but the amount of time it takes to get the work permit issued and the visa on top of that means that the calves will be ready for slaughter by the time it is done. It is too long. The system must be shortened and speeded up so these people can get here sooner. More staff have to be put on that work.

A couple of issues have been raised. The first is that of home care workers. I did not see Deputy Ó Cuív's debate during the week but it was discussed with the Taoiseach last week in the House. It is an issue we all have commented on lately. We are engaging, and will engage, with the home care providers in the sector to try to gather the evidence to make the case. We carried out two reviews over the last year since the onset of the pandemic. In April of last year we changed the scheme to allow permits for healthcare assistants, who generally work in nursing homes, to come here to work. There was evidence to show there was a shortage there and there was agreement with the HSE and the Department of Health that they were needed. A structure and a training regime were put in place to facilitate that.

Phase two of that was the demand for workers in the home. We have tried to engage with the providers in that area. They have gathered evidence for us and we are working through that evidence. However, in the last review, which was completed in the last few weeks, the evidence was not there to show that there is a need to revert to the permits scheme to bring skills or labour in from abroad. The biggest issue we have to try to tease through is that 75% of the people who work in that sector at present are part-time. I understand that a number of them might choose to be part-time but we have to go deeper and analyse that. The Department of Health is involved in that process.

I am sorry, Chair, but there were three questions.

No. The Minister of State is out of time.

I will respond to Deputy Stanton shortly.

It is cold comfort for somebody who is waiting for care to be told that all these processes are being gone through while in the meantime there are no services. We know that labour shortages are endemic in this society. We have to import most of the deckhands on fishing boats. There are delays in the licences in that area. Amazingly, we are very short of people in the hospitality sector. People in that sector tell us constantly that they cannot hire workers. Perhaps I am looking at the wrong end of the story and maybe another issue under the remit of the Department is more relevant here, namely, the issue of a living wage to make it attractive to work and the interface between gainful work and social welfare. If the Minister of State wishes to address that issue rather than that relating to work permits, I would be interested. However, I am also interested in exactly what he is doing to streamline the entire work permits process.

On the second issue, the Minister is driving a great deal of changes-----

We have not seen them.

-----to make work pay and to ensure the conditions and rights of labour, backed by the Government, are made more attractive to try to attract people to work. The Deputy mentioned the hospitality sector. On one hand, there are thousands of jobs available in that sector, and we have given permits and prioritised certain areas, such as chefs and so forth. On the other hand, if one analyses the live register and the people on the PUP, there are thousands with a background in hospitality. There is a mismatch there and we are trying to close that gap. Yes, it involves pay and conditions. Yes, it involves choices and people are re-evaluating their careers. Again, we try to support that. A large amount of money is set aside for education and the upskilling agenda. I ask employers in all these sectors to engage with the pathways to work scheme to attract labour.

With regard to the farmers, we made 100 permits available, in conjunction with the Department of Health, to bring in dairy farmers. My sense is that this will not be enough, but I have to work with the relevant Departments and agencies, notably, the Irish Farmers Association and so forth, in the sector to be able to gather the evidence. However, we react quite quickly and have done. The number is 100 at present. We can increase that in the next review if there is proven demand. We try to work with every sector to encourage them to source labour locally and to avail of the supports from the Government through the Department of Social Protection, the Department of Education and our Department to make that happen.

Can I add a last comment regarding the processing of permits?

No, you cannot because I have been strict on everybody.

I will share the information with Deputy Ó Cuív later.

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