Sorca Clarke
Question:94. Deputy Sorca Clarke asked the Minister for Defence if he will provide an update on the engagements and progress made in relation to the Women of Honour. [3831/22]
View answerThursday, 27 January 2022
Questions (94)
Oral answers (10 contributions)
Can the Minister please provide an update on the engagements and progress made to date with regard to the Women of Honour? I will draw the Minister's attention to the fact that again this week at the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence, we repeatedly sought a reply to correspondence on this issue that was sent to the Minister's Department last December.
On Tuesday last, following Cabinet approval, I announced the establishment of a judge-led independent review group to examine the effectiveness of systems, policies and procedures dealing with workplace issues relating to bullying, discrimination, harassment, sexual harassment and sexual misconduct in the Defence Forces.
The independent review will be undertaken by former High Court judge, Ms Bronagh O’Hanlon, who will be the chairperson; Mark Connaughton SC, who was recommended by the Attorney General's office; and Ms Jane Williams, a HR consultant who has worked with the commission for the last 12 months. I thank the members of the review group for agreeing to undertake this significant piece of work. The independent review is seen as a critical and vital next step to ensure the workplace for serving members of the Defence Forces is safe, where there is zero tolerance of unacceptable behaviour and where we learn from historical experiences.
My Department and I have engaged extensively in recent months with the Women of Honour group and other stakeholders, including both serving and former members of the Defence Forces; the representative associations, PDFORRA and the Representative Association of Commissioned Officers, RACO; the Reserve Defence Force Representative Association, RDFRA; and a second group representing former members. These engagements have brought serious issues to my attention, which indicate that it is not just an historical issue, unfortunately. Incidents of alleged unacceptable behaviour are continuing to occur. Current and former members of the Defence Forces have been clear that the culture that is pervading and the application of those policies, systems and procedures for dealing with unacceptable behaviour have not and are not serving all Defence Forces personnel as well as they should be. A further round of engagement with stakeholders took place on Tuesday afternoon last when I provided an update to stakeholders on the Government decision to proceed with the independent review. This was the seventh meeting at senior level that has been held with the Women of Honour group since last September, three of which I attended personally.
Current and former members of the Defence Forces have welcomed the review. While I acknowledge the disappointment expressed by the Women of Honour group, which has been seeking a commission of inquiry, I am strongly aware of the need for immediacy of action to ensure safety of serving Defence Forces personnel. I want to be clear that this does not preclude the Government from considering further bodies of work that may be necessary. The review group has been specifically asked to advise on whether further work is required to examine issues of an historical nature and to make any recommendations regarding how this might be pursued.
When I first asked the Minister about abuse in the Defence Forces almost a year ago, he told me that a robust system was in place and that there was a supportive workplace culture. Following that documentary with Ms Katie Hannon - I will give credit where it is due - the Minister had a turn of heart at that point. That was most welcome for those who had such negative experiences. After that documentary, the Minister told me that "real change" would be delivered and that there were "too many stories in this space that are not historic but current". With regard to the Women of Honour, he categorically said that he "absolutely" believed its members. He acknowledged the women's "sincerity and courage" and expressed a "deep appreciation" to them. He spoke, as he has done today, about the strong "culture [of abuse] that is pervading" and said that the systems in place "have not and are not serving" members of the Defence Forces. He said that "significant efforts have been made .... but they have not worked", that "confidential reporting systems have been put in place but [have] not worked" and that the "first thing I want to do is to work with the women". If these statements were true, and the Minister has repeated some of them today, why is it that his review seeks to primarily establish what he has acknowledged he already knows?
That is not the case. If the Deputy looks at the terms of reference, we are asking this review group to advise us on the changes that are necessary in the Defence Forces in terms of structures, legal underpinning, procedures and end-to-end complaints procedures. There is, therefore, much work in that regard. This is a difficult area in which efforts have been made to respond to and change structures to accommodate and so on in the past. Clearly, that has not worked to the extent needed. We have now asked an experienced group of people to look at this and report back independently to me. We have discussed this with various different interested parties, including the Women of Honour, whose members' sincerity I absolutely acknowledge and whose role in raising this issue in a very public way has resulted in many of the actions that have subsequently taken place.
The Minister has gone over time.
We want to continue to work with the Women of Honour and, indeed, other groups through this review group. If recommendations come from the review group for new structures in dealing with historical cases - for example, a commission of inquiry - of course I will bring that to the Government.
We have gone way over time.
I believe we need a group that can report back in the next six to nine months, and that is what this review group can do.
I am deeply concerned that the approach to which the Minister appears to be wedded will result in another failure for these women in their fight to get justice. When the Minister mentioned dignity and equality issues in his press release the other day, essentially he undermined the seriousness of the allegations these women made because they are so much more than that. When he mentioned the terms of reference of the review group he has put in place, he was effectively putting responsibility for any further action on a group of people he has tasked to do a job and who are doing so in the realm of the terms of reference in which those who brought us to this point - the Women of Honour - cannot engage and have faith. Surely the Minister can acknowledge that one of the fundamental principles of healing after trauma or any kind of abuse is to feel not only that one has been heard but also that one's concerns have been taken on board. I am very concerned that this will result in another failure and we will all be back here in a number of years having the same conversations again.
I give a commitment to this House, the Women of Honour and other groups that I have met in this regard. I remain open to talking to all groups, by the way, while this review is undertaken but I also encourage everybody to engage with the review group.
Ms Justice O'Hanlon is absolutely committed to this process, as is Jane Williams and the senior counsel who is working with both of them. We are determined to bring about fundamental change on the back of the report that comes from this independent review, which needs to be independent of the Department of Defence. The Department and the Minister’s office are part of the review of how complaints are responded to by the Department, as well as the role of the Defence Forces. It was an ask of the Women of Honour that we added to the terms of reference. As well as this, historical cases, how we deal with those historical cases and the structures that are there to deal with them are also additions to the terms of reference, on the back of what the Women of Honour asked for in my meeting with them in December. We remain focused on this discussion. We would like now for this review group to get under way quickly, which I understand is going to happen so that we can get an interim report back in the summer and a final report before the end of the year with real recommendations around how we can bring practical change to the Defence Forces in this space to improve the safety of the workplace for everybody.