Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 1 February 2022
56. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Minister for Education if she will respond to the call by a union (details supplied) for open access to third level education; if she plans to abolish the leaving certificate; if she will engage with the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science to develop open access to third level education; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [4697/22]
View answerI thank Deputy Murphy for his question. I watched much of the discussion this evening on "Six One". In the main, students asked for clarity regarding leaving certificate 2022 and they acknowledged they have received that. In fact, the students asked for four things when I met them. The second thing they asked was that there would be additional changes made to the exam papers and we have provided for that. They also raised the issue of grade inflation in terms of the class of 2022 competing with the class of 2021 and we have addressed that issue for them. They also raised the issue of accredited grades, but as I have already explained, we are not in a position to offer accredited grades this year because one in four students does not have data related to the junior cycle. Those data are important because they are used for comparability or standardisation for students.
It is fair to say that the reaction of students today has been varied. The views of parents and others around the table are also varied. I have met with all of those around the table, including parents, students, teaching unions and management bodies, have listened to them and heard what they had to say.
Specifically on the four points that were raised by the students, I have gone as far as I possibly can to ensure they are presented with what they have asked me to do for them. I am in a position to deliver on three of their requests but the fourth one, for reasons I have outlined, cannot be delivered because of an absence of data. We are not in a position to provide for accredited grades this year in a similar fashion to last year. If Deputy Murphy heard the news this evening, he would recognise that many of the students accepted that the absence of data is an issue.
I do not buy it and the important point is the students will not buy it. They will not buy the idea that the Minister listened and that she and the Government did everything that was possible. A full 67% of students in a very widely shared and participated in survey by the students union said they did not want a traditional leaving certificate exam but the Government is pushing ahead with a traditional exam, with a couple of tinkering changes around the edges. That is all it is and that is cold comfort to the students. We know that even in a normal, non-Covid year, around 57% of students report suffering mental or physical illness due to the stress. Add in the experience of Covid, the fear of getting Covid and of missing exams and we are talking about horrendous, unnecessary pressure this year. I will make the point again that it is not necessary. It is an artificial shortage. Why not put the investment in to ensure there is a third level place for anyone who wants to avail of it?
To the Deputy's suggestion that we are just ploughing on I would say, far from it. He should take time to study what has been put in place in terms of these exams in June. It is very clear the exams in June are very different from what has been offered previously. For example, students studying maths would traditionally have had ten questions to answer but there is such significant choice now that they only have to answer six on paper one and paper two. On the higher level English paper two there are three very significant bodies of study. Rather than answering three questions, students will only answer two. Those changes are across all sections, including the oral exams. In the Spanish oral exam, for example, students would have had to prepare for five role plays but this year they will only have to prepare for three. Likewise, with Irish where they would have had 20 sraith pictiúr, they now have ten. These significant changes are across the system and are an acknowledgement of what the students actually asked for. They asked that additional changes would be made to the papers and that has been achieved. They also raised the question of grade inflation and a commitment has been given that the grade inflation for 2022 will be on a par with 2021. In terms of the accredited grades, I have not heard Deputy Murphy propose any alternative. We have said there is an absence of data so it cannot be as fair as the system we were in a position to operate last year.
That the Minister would say this is very different and there are significant changes speaks to a profound lack of vision by the Government because the basis of the system is exactly the same. For students, their perception of how they are going to do in their leaving certificate all rests on one or two exams in subjects including maths, English and Irish, in the oral and the aural exams. The Department is tinkering around the edges in terms of exactly what is on the exam papers but that is it. All the pressure builds up onto those couple of weeks of exams at the end of 18 years of educational experience. The alternative is really clear. It is to open access to third level education, to put the investment in, to use the temporary and part-time staff that already exist in our third level institutions, to add the extra 25,000 places we need, to say we have open access to third level education, just as we currently have open access to second level education, and to do away with this unnecessary rat race.
I have to be very clear that the question of access to higher education is a policy matter which is not under my remit but under the remit of my colleague, the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science. I am aware it is a key of objective of that Department to ensure there is access into either further or higher education for each person who wishes to pursue educational options at third level.
Regarding the leaving certificate, what is being offered this year is different. Again, I have not heard Deputy Murphy reference how he would propose to offer accredited grades given-----
I have nothing against accredited grades.
I am just making the point the Deputy said-----
The alternative is open access.
-----very clearly that we have not answered the needs of students, but I am saying we specifically went through each of the four issues that were raised by students. They asked for clarity, greater choice and that we would address the issues of grade inflation and accredited grades. We were able to address three out of four of those issues for them, but because of an absence of data, we were not able to address the fourth one. We have made sufficient and significant changes to the papers to accommodate the students going forward.
