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Cabinet Committees

Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 8 February 2022

Tuesday, 8 February 2022

Questions (11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)

Alan Kelly

Question:

11. Deputy Alan Kelly asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee on Economic Recovery and Investment last met; and when it will next meet. [4371/22]

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Mary Lou McDonald

Question:

12. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee on Economic Recovery and Investment will next meet. [5959/22]

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Christopher O'Sullivan

Question:

13. Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on economic recovery and investment will next meet. [6146/22]

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Joe Flaherty

Question:

14. Deputy Joe Flaherty asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on economic recovery and investment will next meet. [6147/22]

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Cormac Devlin

Question:

15. Deputy Cormac Devlin asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on economic recovery and investment will next meet. [6256/22]

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Richard Boyd Barrett

Question:

16. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on economic recovery and investment last met; and when it will next meet. [6399/22]

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Paul Murphy

Question:

17. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on economic recovery and investment last met; and when it will next meet. [6402/22]

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Mick Barry

Question:

18. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on economic recovery and investment last met. [6462/22]

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Peadar Tóibín

Question:

19. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on economic recovery and investment last met and will next meet. [6685/22]

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Oral answers (30 contributions)

I propose to take Questions Nos. 11 to 19, inclusive, together.

The Cabinet committee on economic recovery and investment first met on 8 July 2020. It has met a total of 17 times, most recently on 13 December. The next meeting is scheduled for this Thursday. Membership of the committee comprises the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment and the Ministers for the Environment, Climate and Communications, Transport, Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform and Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media. Other Ministers or Ministers of State attend when required.

The Cabinet committee on economic recovery and investment is responsible for issues relating to the economy and investment. Its initial focus was developing the July jobs stimulus and it has since overseen the development of the Government's economic recovery plan, as well as the review of the national development plan, NDP. It has also overseen the development of the Government's new national digital strategy. Issues relating to the economy are, of course, regularly discussed at full Cabinet meetings, where all formal decisions are made.

Last week, Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, representatives were before the Committee of Public Accounts to discuss MetroLink. A sum of €250 million has been spent on metro north up to this point. Some €83 million has been spent since it became MetroLink in 2018. Given that it is supposed to be a priority of the Government and that there is cross-party support, why are State agency representatives continually appearing before Oireachtas committees or briefing the media with a view to pushing out the date and pushing up the cost, to the point where people believe the project will not happen? Dublin Airport is targeting 40 million passengers in the next eight to nine years. We need a light rail system.

While this is happening, there are tandem developments ploughing ahead, such as that at Fosterstown, Swords.

I, too, wish to put on record the intimidation noted by Deputy Paul Murphy in respect of the South Swords Residents Group, which has sought a judicial review to protect sustainable planning and local democratic master plans. The group is being put under intense pressure by solicitor firms and developers to withdraw its judicial reviews and actions, which it is entitled to take and which are very difficult for ordinary people and groups to pursue.

The Oireachtas social protection committee published its report last week in response to the Commission on Pensions. It recommends no further increases to the qualifying age for State pensions, which is welcome. Workers should be entitled to retire with a pension at 65 if they so choose.

The committee also supports the recommendation to allow workers to retire at 65 once they achieve the required contributions. The commission and the committee have finished their work. What happens next from a Government point of view? The programme for Government commits to action within six months of the Commission on Pensions completing its work. Will the Government's response include State pension provision for long-term carers, a commitment to rule out pension age increases and – what needs to happen – a return to the right to retire at 65 and an end to mandatory retirement? I ask the Taoiseach to respond to each of those specific points.

As on previous occasions, farming has always led the way in economic recovery. However, this time around, it is becoming a massive challenge because of the increased cost of farming. I do not just refer to the cost of fertiliser, which has been well highlighted in this Chamber. It is also about the cost of ration, which has gone from €1 per kg to €1.30 per kg.

The cost of ration. As we know, the cost of fertiliser has doubled. In terms of sustainability, farmers are not looking to spread more fertiliser, they are just looking to maintain the level at which they were spreading it. However, it is prohibitive when fertiliser is doubling in cost. Inevitably, this increase in costs does not just impact the farmer; it gets passed onto the consumer as well. As the Taoiseach knows well, farming is the backbone of our rural communities. We need to protect it, intervene and provide supports. From the sustainability perspective, one of the key measures is protected urea, but that is also increasing in cost because of the energy crisis. I would like to hear the Taoiseach's thoughts on measures to protect that sector.

Amid concerns over sustained inflationary pressures, and as the midlands struggle to adapt to a new era with the fast-tracked decarbonisation and the closure of Bord na Móna and the ESB operations in those areas, I ask the Taoiseach if he has a view on giving some consideration to a further decentralisation of Government Departments and agencies in Dublin, and bringing them out to areas that have been most adversely affected and have paid the biggest price in the understandable move towards decarbonisation.

Workers have returned, and are returning, to offices across the country, with many now working on a hybrid basis. Some work some days in the office and others work remotely from locations either at home or within the local town or village. However, the increased cost of fuel is having a significant impact on those workers. As part of efforts to combat climate change, promote modal shift and support workers, will the Taoiseach ask the Minister for Transport to consider introducing free or discounted public transport options on a trial basis, perhaps here in the capital? This could include free or discounted fares for 90-minute journeys for all commuters across DART, Luas, bus or intercity services.

Economic recovery means very little if you cannot put an affordable roof over your head. In my area, average rents are now €2,200 a month and average house prices are in excess of €600,000. If you are on HAP, you are goosed, because the most they will give you is €1,900. So, what are you supposed to do? I would like to know what the Taoiseach thinks I should say to people coming into my clinic who are saying they have no place to live and they cannot afford to pay those sorts of rents. Of course, social housing should be the answer. However, figures just revealed by Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council this week will really shock Members. Does the Taoiseach know how many council houses were delivered in the Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown area last year? Zero. Next year, the number of council houses that will be delivered in the area will be in single digits. It is just beyond tolerable. Seriously, what does the Taoiseach expect me to say to people who are coming into my clinic and who are faced with homelessness because there is absolutely nothing for them?

Retail and hospitality workers were applauded over the last two years for helping to keep society running during the pandemic. Does the Taoiseach agree that those workers deserve a raise? Very many of them are on the minimum wage. The minimum wage in this country is a poverty wage. Does the Taoiseach think that is okay? Does he think it is acceptable that someone should work full-time and still be below the poverty line? For example, the average cost of a one-bed apartment in Dublin is around €1,600 a month. A full-time minimum wage worker earns less than €1,700 a month. How can someone be expected to survive on that income? Could the Taoiseach survive on that income? The German Government has announced that it will be increasing the minimum wage to €12 an hour from October. Will this Government do the same? Will it go further and agree with People Before Profit's proposal that we should move to €15 an hour? That is the equivalent of €30,000 a year for a full-time worker. At the very minimum, I ask the Government to accept the motion brought forward by Deputy Barry to have an emergency review of the minimum wage now to ensure that it is above the rate of inflation.

I see the Taoiseach was out peddling the old Thatcherite myths earlier on about wage increases causing inflation. He was at it again. At a time when inflation stood at 5.5%, the Government increased the minimum wage by 2.9%. It is a statement of fact that the Taoiseach's Government and the Taoiseach have introduced a de facto pay cut for the lowest paid workers in this State. At a time when the average minimum wage increase across the European Union is 6%, the Taoiseach's Government has decided to increase Ireland's minimum wage by less than half of that. Tomorrow, in the Dáil, I will move a motion calling for an emergency review of the national minimum wage rate, for an increase that at least fully compensates for price increases as they impact on the low-paid, and for a new rate to be introduced no later than 1 May 2022. Many out there believe that the Minister of State, Deputy Fleming, only said what the Taoiseach and his Government colleagues believe and say to themselves behind closed doors. Do the Government parties intend to vote for my motion tomorrow? If so, do they intend to act on it?

There is a tale of two countries currently. The foreign and direct investment sector is motoring away at the moment, but many elements of the indigenous sector, which employ the majority of people in this State, are in big trouble. Walking through any provincial town, you will see many shops that are shuttered and closed. We know that 40,000 jobs that existed in hospitality in 2019 will not exist this year. Some €3 billion of taxes has been warehoused from businesses that cannot afford to pay their taxes this year. We had a deficit of €7.5 billion last year. We have a national debt of around €250 billion that nobody in this House ever talks about and we are facing interest rate hikes from the ECB which will increase the servicing costs of that debt on this State in the future. All of that is eclipsed by racing inflation. Fiscal prudence is based on the fact that we take in as much tax as we need for expenditure. Does the Taoiseach agree with Fine Gael that there should be tax reductions for upper income earners in the coming years?

There was quite a range of questions. In response to Deputy Smith's question on MetroLink, as far as I am concerned, we need to get it going. It will happen. It could be subject to delays. If there are planning delays or judicial reviews, that will delay it, but some of those issues are beyond our control and people are entitled to exercise their rights, and so on. However, we should be under no illusion that one of the biggest challenges for infrastructural projects in this country is progressing through all the various stages and so forth. The Government has made a decision to proceed with this and we will proceed with it.

In response to Deputy McDonald's question on pensions, again, the Oireachtas committee evaluated and gave its response to the report of the Commission on Pensions. We have asked the Commission on Taxation and Welfare to review the recommendations because there are recommendations on PRSI and potential increases in PRSI to deal with a range of measures to improve pay-related sick pay and pensions as well. We will ask the Commission on Taxation and Welfare to give its views on that. The Government stated that six months after the publication of the report of the Commission on Pensions we would return with our views on it. There are no easy answers here. We should stop pretending that there are easy answers. The adult generation in this country needs to ensure that there is a sustainable pension system for younger generations. From what I am hearing in the House, I do not get the sense that there is really buy-in to that. I think there is a strong tendency in the Opposition to kick this down the road and to oppose any measures that would give pension sustainability, but that is the way politics works I suppose.

We are committed to fulfilling that and getting meaningful recommendations too.

As regards the points raised by Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan, I fully take on board the additional costs point on fertiliser and ration and other issues pertaining to farming. It is challenging; there is no question about that. Again, however, we hope through other measures and other income streams we can provide that we could try to offset that. I know the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine is engaging with the stakeholders in farming to address some of these issues but they are not easy. The Deputy mentioned fertiliser. I mentioned cars earlier. The increased cost of fertiliser results from the global supply chain issue and part of the gas costs issue. It is a further illustration that what is happening globally on inflation is having an impact in Ireland.

Deputy Flaherty put forward a good idea in terms of decentralisation. I would be very open to that, given remote working and the fact that I remember being involved in the decentralisation to Carlow of part of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. Almost everybody working in Carlow was from that wider region. Instead of having to commute to Dublin, they were able to work in that unit in Carlow and it made absolute sense on a whole range of issues.

The point raised by Deputy Devlin is very imaginative. We are looking at a number of imaginative ideas around transport. Public transport has to be the way of the future also. We have to increase participation on public transport and cost is a key aspect of that.

In response to Deputy Boyd Barrett, I would simply say that I do not understand why Dún Laoghaire had zero, or very few, social housing completions last year.

The council, yes. It should have had more. Other local authorities are doing much better on the social housing front and in 2022 the target is 9,000 additional builds through approved social housing bodies and through the council. I am not clear whether the approved social housing bodies-----

It is a Fianna Fáil-run council.

I am not clear whether the approved social housing bodies-----

It is a Fianna Fáil-run council.

We do not run too many councils these days. We have a healthy-----

Fianna Fáil runs that one with the Green Party.

We have the largest number of councillors across the country but, as the Deputy is aware, all councils are fragmented between different parties. It takes a collective-----

Fianna Fáil and the Green Party run that council.

What I have known in many councils, though, is that many parties to the left just keep opposing housing developments until the cows come home.

We have not been opposing council developments.

Deputy Paul Murphy raised the issue of retail and hospitality workers. Again, just on the minimum wage, ours is the second highest in Europe right now. Even if you take in purchasing power, we are the sixth highest within the European Union. I think we need balance. We are above the average European wage. Again, we support wage increases, particularly linked to productivity. We do not want to go chasing inflation forever because that does not work, but we do believe we can introduce measures that will help people on low incomes and that is something we are working on.

Deputy Barry misrepresented what I said, but that is par for the course. In terms of the de facto situation around pay and so on, pay has increased. In fact pay, more generally, has increased over the past 12 months. I have a figure here for the growth in pay more generally. The Central Bank expects the domestic economy to grow by more than 7%. It is projecting that wage rises will outpace price increases over the next three years. That is what the Central Bank is predicting, notwithstanding the spike in inflation this year. The most important figure, though, is that unemployment is at 7.8%. The rate was above 20% in November 2020.

I thank the Taoiseach.

That is an extraordinary recovery in our economy which one would not-----

Tell that to the low paid.

Well it has been an extraordinary recovery. Employment is the best way out of low pay.

Good pay is the best way out of low pay. Low-paid workers are employed. It would be desperate if the record was so skewed.

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