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Citizens' Assembly

Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 8 February 2022

Tuesday, 8 February 2022

Questions (20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28)

Mary Lou McDonald

Question:

20. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach the expected timeline and order of citizens' assemblies committed to in the programme for Government. [4718/22]

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Alan Kelly

Question:

21. Deputy Alan Kelly asked the Taoiseach the expected timeline and order of the citizens’ assemblies committed to in the programme for Government. [5961/22]

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Christopher O'Sullivan

Question:

22. Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan asked the Taoiseach the status of the commitments on citizens’ assemblies in the programme for Government. [6342/22]

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Richard Boyd Barrett

Question:

23. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach the expected timeline and order of citizens’ assemblies committed to in the programme for Government. [6400/22]

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Paul Murphy

Question:

24. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach the expected timeline and order of citizens’ assemblies committed to in the programme for Government. [6403/22]

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Bríd Smith

Question:

25. Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Taoiseach the expected timeline and order of citizens’ assemblies committed to in the programme for Government. [6405/22]

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Mick Barry

Question:

26. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach the expected timeline and order of citizens’ assemblies committed to in the programme for Government. [6463/22]

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Neasa Hourigan

Question:

27. Deputy Neasa Hourigan asked the Taoiseach the timeline and order of citizens’ assemblies committed to in the programme for Government. [6523/22]

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Cian O'Callaghan

Question:

28. Deputy Cian O'Callaghan asked the Taoiseach the expected timeline and order of citizens’ assemblies committed to in the programme for Government. [6524/22]

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Oral answers (17 contributions)

I propose to take Questions Nos. 20 to 28, inclusive, together.

As the House will be aware, the most recent Citizens' Assembly, on gender equality, concluded its work in June 2021. In the intervening period, circumstances pertaining to the Covid-19 pandemic have meant that it has not been possible, until now, to arrange for the establishment and running of further assemblies. The recent easing of public health restrictions means it is once again possible to plan for the running of assemblies with in-person meetings.

I am pleased to confirm to the House that the Government has today agreed to the establishment of two citizens' assemblies, one dealing with the issues of biodiversity and the other dealing with the type of directly elected mayor and local government structures best suited for Dublin. It is proposed on this occasion to run the two separate assemblies concurrently, with inaugural meetings planned for April 2022. This will be the first time that two assemblies will run concurrently, and presents a significant opportunity to design and implement an operational model that can allow for a greater number of citizens' assemblies to be run.

It is envisaged that a citizens' assembly on drug use will follow these two assemblies, with the intention of running it concurrently with a citizens' assembly on the future of education. That decision, of course, will be taken later this year and will be informed by what we learn over the coming period about the benefits and challenges of running assemblies concurrently.

The matters to be considered by both assemblies are important and urgent, and the Government wishes to move with speed to get the assemblies up and running. The formal establishment of the new assemblies will require a resolution to be passed both in this House and in the Seanad. The Office of the Government Chief Whip will be engaging with the Business Committee this week to make the necessary arrangements to bring a motion before the Oireachtas next week.

The terms of reference for each assembly have been designed so that they are sufficiently well-defined to ensure a clear focus for the assembly, while at the same time not being so prescriptive as to inhibit the scope of the assembly to define its work programme as it deems appropriate. The terms of reference for the Citizens' Assembly on biodiversity derive from, and are consistent with, the resolution passed by Dáil Éireann in May 2019 which declared a climate and biodiversity emergency and called for a citizens' assembly to examine how the State can improve its response to the issue of biodiversity loss.

The terms of reference for the Dublin Citizens' Assembly derive from, and are consistent with, the programme for Government, which contains a commitment to establish a citizens' assembly to consider the type of directly elected mayor and local government structures best suited for Dublin. The full terms of reference will be included in the motion that is to be brought before this House next week.

In conclusion, let me reiterate that the Government wishes to move with speed to establish both these assemblies and we look forward to further progressing this matter this week and next.

There are several speakers and the time is limited.

First, I welcome the establishment of the Citizens' Assemblies on the directly elected mayor for Dublin and biodiversity. However, I have raised previously with the Taoiseach the fact that key agencies such as the National Biodiversity Data Centre are underfunded and understaffed. They are not even underpinned by legislation. That needs to be sorted out as a matter of urgency.

Equally urgent is the need for a citizens' assembly on the future of education. That was manifestly the case during the whole leaving certificate debate and debacle. There is also the issue of a citizens' assembly on drug use. I am very concerned that there has been a notable row-back by the Department of Health, with intervention by the HSE moving key services and supports away from their community focus. I am very concerned at the lack of capacity and focus, particularly on the issue of recovery. For example, despite the lack of capacity in recovery care, the HSE does not plan to reopen Keltoi drug rehabilitation beds at St. Mary's Hospital in the Phoenix Park. That decision is madness at a time when one cannot get a detox or recovery bed for a person in dire need.

We are going to run out of time for other speakers. I call Deputy Ó Ríordáin.

Since I have come back into this House I have been raising consistently - as have Deputies in government - the need for a citizen's assembly on drugs. We have tried to approach this in good faith so that all the issues we have in respect of drug policy can be discussed in a robust fashion at a citizens' assembly. We believe we have been mature and responsible in that respect. Last Thursday night, I pleaded in this Chamber with the Minister of State with responsibility for drugs to prioritise the citizens' assembly on drugs because lives are at stake. The difficulty is that, unfortunately, Irish society does not value the lives that are at stake. When the announcement came today about the Citizens' Assemblies on biodiversity and a potentially directly elected lord mayor of Dublin, there was a level of devastation within the communities and families that are deeply affected by the issue of drugs. I ask the Taoiseach to please give us some level of hope of a timeline for the citizens' assembly on drugs.

With the announcement of the Citizens' Assembly on biodiversity, this is an incredibly positive day for the efforts of this country to tackle biodiversity loss and the protection of wildlife. In fairness to the Taoiseach, last week he stated we need to act swiftly and with conviction, and here we are today, announcing the Citizens' Assembly will have its inaugural meeting in April. It is important that we continue the other work we are doing.

There is the review of the National Parks and Wildlife Service, NPWS, the establishment of the wildlife crime investigation unit and the bolstering of that unit so that it can do its work properly. There is also a need for a proper agri-environment scheme that instead of penalising farmers for having a habitat on their land will actually reward them for this. I thank the Taoiseach again for his leadership on this issue. It is a very good day for those who care about wildlife in this country.

If we are going to protect and improve biodiversity and increase forest cover as part of that, something radical has to change in Coillte, the State forestry company. The Riverstick forest sale is an absolute disgrace. Before Christmas I had to help the local community in the Enniskerry area to ring alarm bells about Coillte’s plan to sell a public forest in that area, which is a public right of way used by the local community. Luckily, we were successful in that campaign but what is going on in Coillte? We need to address its mandate. Part of the problem is that it is driven, a bit like the ESB making all the profits from the energy crisis at the moment, by profit. It is not driven primarily by a concern to expand the forest estate but by making money. That has to stop and we need to change the mandate of Coillte.

The Taoiseach spoke about how in May 2019 the Dáil declared a biodiversity emergency and called for a citizens’ assembly. Three years will have passed by the time an assembly will have been established. That is not exactly moving swiftly or recognising the scale of the emergency that faces us. One quarter of bird species in Ireland are a "serious conservation concern". Some 77 species of plants and animals are officially endangered. The European Commission has 15 open infringement cases against Ireland on environmental issues. There is an absence of action from the Government.

For example, with regard to marine protected areas, the then Government in 2010 promised that we would have 10% by 2020. It did not have this and it is still at 2.4%. There is still no legal definition of "marine protected areas" and the ones that we have really just exist on paper. The question is whether the Government will take action following the inevitable advice from the citizens’ assembly.

Will the Taoiseach admit that the idea of raising the pension age to 67 and then 68 is now dead in the water? The most recent general election showed that there is as much potential support for this measure as a race for a return of water charges. The Oireachtas committee was only recognising the reality that, politically, this is now a complete non-runner.

Increasing life expectancy raises important issues about funding pension arrangements. Will the Taoiseach now accept that there are alternative ways to doing this rather than just levying extra taxes on the workforce? Extra taxation, for example, could be levied on rental incomes, bank profits, profits of big business and taxes on the incomes of the very wealthy. In fact, will he not concede that the end of the road for the raise the pension age argument should mark the starting point for a real debate about the levying of real wealth taxes in our society?

As a result of the pandemic, the landscape of drug consumption in Ireland has utterly changed. Before Christmas the Tallaght Drug & Alcohol Task Force issued a report on the increased use of crack cocaine. In my constituency, the North Inner City Drugs & Alcohol Task Force is experiencing a precarious funding situation. We need coherent funding strategies and an approach that is embedded in the community.

The current policies do not address the impacts of drug consumption on families, on health and on social interaction, on children and what happens when people are criminalised, which is what we are doing right now. I am glad to see other citizens’ assemblies but we desperately and urgently need to reframe our national policy position on drugs. We need a national conversation that places the very vulnerable people in our communities that experience this issue at the heart of it. I urge that we put a timeline in place and take urgent action on this issue.

The majority of the citizens in the North voted to remain in the EU. Most polls show that the majority of citizens in the North either support the protocol or can live with it. The Good Friday Agreement is meant to put the will of the people at the heart of the direction of the North of Ireland yet we have the DUP, which is a minority party with a minority view, holding the whole of the North to ransom at the moment. Stormont is dysfunctional, broken and is not working for the people at the moment, which the Taoiseach himself admitted.

There are 44,000 people in the North on housing waiting lists, 4,200 homeless and on the streets, 250,000 living in poverty and 250,000 on hospital waiting lists for more than a year. We need to move beyond Stormont as it is currently constituted. The institutions need to be fully reformed so that no one party can ever tear it down again. When will there be a 32-county citizens’ assembly to redesign the new institutions in the North to prevent this happening again?

I am afraid the bad news for the Taoiseach is that there is only one minute left for all of these questions.

I welcome the comments made in respect of the biodiversity citizens’ assembly articulated by Deputies McDonald and Christopher O’Sullivan. I take the point that we need to do more in a review of the NPWS and indeed the agri-environmental scheme. We need to work on this as that is why the carbon tax is important to provide funding for that agri-environmental scheme.

On the citizens’ assembly on drugs, raised by Deputies Ó Ríordáin and Hourigan, I said that this would not happen until the latter part of the year but in the interim, and not just interim, officials in my office are working and endeavouring to recreate an area-based partnership approach in key areas that are suffering the most from the drugs epidemic and the impact it is having on communities. We need to revert back to the old RAPID approach of drug task force areas where we need a multidisciplinary and multi-pronged approach across Departments and agencies from the bottom up to deal with much of what is happening on the ground right now.

We are not waiting for the citizens’ assembly to do work on the drugs issue but the intention is that we have the drugs citizens’ assembly set up in the latter part of this year.

There was no answer to the question I asked on the-----

I answered that earlier. My own view on reconciliation on the island is that we need to engage at both political party and community level with different traditions coming together. I am not clear that a citizens’ assembly is the best model for dialogue and for the more consistent long-haul engagement that is required. This is the sort of long-haul engagement that was required that led to the Good Friday Agreement. A citizens’ assembly would not have led to the Good Friday Agreement.

Stormont needs to be reformed now.

Gabh mo leithscéal ach táimid thar-am anois.

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