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Work Permits

Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 10 February 2022

Thursday, 10 February 2022

Questions (12)

Catherine Connolly

Question:

12. Deputy Catherine Connolly asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment further to Parliamentary Question No. 154 of 9 December 2021, the timeline for the next review of the employment permits occupations lists; the engagement he or his Department has had with the Department of Social Protection with regard to the ongoing exclusion of homecare workers from the critical skills list; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6827/22]

View answer

Oral answers (10 contributions)

My question is very specific on the timeline for the next review of the employment permits occupation list. Has the Minister or his Department had any engagement with the Department of Social Protection about the ongoing exclusion of home care workers from the critical skills list?

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. I will give her the short answer first because I know that is what she wants. It is to be hoped we will be able to reopen that process within the next couple of weeks. That is the aim. That then takes a couple of months and decisions will probably be made around April or May at the latest. In a few weeks we will open the consultation and see where it goes after that.

I will give the Deputy the background to that as well. The occupations lists for employment permits are subject to twice-yearly reviews to ensure their ongoing relevance to the State’s human capital requirements. The next occupational lists review will, as I said, open in the next couple of weeks and submissions will be invited through a public consultation to be launched on our Department’s website. The issue the Deputy raised has been discussed quite a lot here. The Taoiseach, Tánaiste, the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, and myself are happy to engage on this area and to try to work with this sector to see how we can resolve this. Permits are not the only solution. There are others as well. However, it is something we will look at again, as we did in the last two rounds as well.

My Department chairs the economic migration interdepartmental group with membership drawn from senior officials of key Departments and offices, including the Department of Social Protection. In this case, the relevant Department is the Department of Health. The aim of the group is to promote an integrated approach to addressing labour and skills shortages being experienced in the economy. This includes assessing proposals received through the public consultation for changes to the occupations lists. The Department of Social Protection plays a role in the review process through its provision of advice on the uptake of its tailored employment services by employers. In order to change the status of an occupation on the lists, there must be a clear demonstration that recruitment difficulties are solely due to shortages across the EEA, and not to other factors such as salary, employment conditions, or both.

The contracts of employment and employment terms and conditions being offered to home care workers are significant factors in the recruitment challenges faced by the sector, rather than a demonstrable labour market shortage. For example, issues such as failure to guarantee hours of work and the lack of travel and subsistence payments are factors in the recruitment challenges faced by the sector. Thus, as we review the sector an issue seems to be coming through. When you see a high number of part-time workers that is something we need to get in behind and interrogate a little more. I am conscious there are many in that sector who might choose to be part-time workers but it is something we need to tease out much more with the sector and the Departments of Health and Social Protection. We are willing to do that but to be very clear, the sector has been asked to engage much more with the Department of Social Protection to try to flesh this out as best we can.

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire Stáit. He is saying the critical skills list will be reviewed in the next few weeks and a decision made on whether to add to or take from it. That is the answer to that part.

Yes. There are two lists. There is a non-essential list as well. The critical list is for one category and the other category is the one the Deputy is after and that it would be opened up to permits. We changed that for health care assistants last year.

Okay. That then is going to happen and I thank the Minister of State for the clarity on that. I thank him also for the clarity on highlighting that it is not just a shortage or workers, which it is, because nationwide there are 5,322 people approved for home support but with no carer available. In Galway there are 278 persons on a waiting list and in the region, that is the community healthcare organisation, CHO2 region, there are 698 persons on a waiting list. Clearly, we have a problem of not enough carers. It is very significant the Minister of State has highlighted that it is not just a shortage but that the reason for same is the bad conditions. Part-time work suits an awful lot of people but it cannot be precarious. Thus, we have a significant problem here. I have a question for the Minister of State, as his Department is on the cross-Department strategic workforce advisory group. What is the gender breakdown of that group by the way, given we are talking about work that is dominated by females in precarious positions?

It is a good question. I do not know. I have not sat around the table. It is officials from all the various Departments who are on it. I imagine there is quite a strong gender balance because the majority of officials I come across demonstrate to me a gender balance. However, I will certainly check it out for the Deputy. To be very clear, the evidence gathered around this, which is in conjunction with the expert group on future skills needs, labour market research and SOLAS, is that it is in specific areas, in this case that of the Department of Health in addition to the Department of Social Protection. The sector has not been able to provide the evidence to show it cannot reach the staff requirements it needs within the EEA. The difficulty and the questions are around the quite high number of people who are part-time, which is 75%. I have already acknowledged there could be some reasons for that because it suits some people in that sector. However, there are also the issues around contracts of employment, travel and subsistence and other matters that must be teased out. The evidence was not there to back up a need to allow permits for the sector. We reviewed the evidence for healthcare assistants in nursing homes and made changes last April, I think. That was positive and was done because the evidence was there. If we are to see changes here, and as the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and many others have said we would like to work on this, we must have the evidence to back that up.

This is very interesting and significant because we have a major crisis on the ground. People are suffering and services are burdened with people who should be at home with carers but cannot. There are many other implications, not to mention the backbreaking work carried out predominantly by women going in and out with terrible conditions, which the Minister of State has set out. Does it look like the critical skills evaluation list will not be changed to include home carers because there is no evidence? Who should be giving that evidence? Where is it?

Am I over time?

I do not know because the clock has reset to 1 minute.

I did not use all my other time so I might take 30 seconds.

Where are we going with this? There is a crisis. Cross-departmental work is going on and the Minister of State said that gender-balanced committees have been set up to deal with this issue, but in the meantime the list is growing to 5,322 nationally, which is an underestimate. What is the short-term solution? Can we make an exception in the short term and then look at a longer term solution? Where are we going with it?

When we undertake the labour market analysis, we try to look at short-term solutions in addition to long-term trends. The permits operation should not be seen as a long-term solution. It is an absolutely temporary one, which we have used to respond to many sectors over the past year. The Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Butler, is leading this and trying to put a strategy in place to deal with this matter. We will work very closely with her on that.

To focus on what the Deputy asked, and to be very clear, home carers are not on the critical list. At present, they are on the ineligible occupations list. If we are to change that, it has to be based on evidence that shows we need to change and facilitate the permit process to bring in people from abroad, outside the EEA, to allow them to work in this sector. The evidence is not proving that at present. A very clear process is set down. We have a consultation twice a year during which we go out to everyone for submissions, including all the various sectors that would have seen changes over the past year, to produce the evidence to back it up. We have engaged the Department of Social Protection, which can provide evidence at present that there is an interest at job fairs and through other recruitment processes that shows us people could be found closer to where workers are needed. It might not necessarily be to do with that, but at present there is a big ask of us to change this system. We will only do that based on very clear evidence.

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