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Defence Forces

Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 12 May 2022

Thursday, 12 May 2022

Questions (7)

Paul McAuliffe

Question:

7. Deputy Paul McAuliffe asked the Minister for Defence the reason that current defence spending was 5% under profile at the end of April 2022; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23508/22]

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Oral answers (6 contributions)

I was concerned to see that up to the end of April this year, defence spending was 5% under profile. I am conscious that the Minister has just said he wants to get as much money as possible for the Defence Forces. I commend him on that, but what is the reason for the fact that defence spending was 5% under profile up to the end of April 2022?

Vote 36, defence, was allocated a gross funding provision of some €836 million for 2022. This allocation provides for the pay and allowances of more than 10,400 public service employees, the upgrade and replacement of essential military equipment and infrastructure, ongoing Defence Forces operational and standing costs, as well as funding in respect of Civil Defence and the Irish Red Cross Society.

Gross expenditure to the end of April 2022 was some €230 million, representing 27% of the defence Vote allocation. This level of expenditure is some €14 million or 6% below profile and is broadly in line with comparable expenditure trends observed over recent years. My Department will continue to monitor expenditure on the Vote over the coming months and, at this stage, it is expected that the overall expenditure outturn will be substantially in line with the provision at year end.

I am very aware that there continues to be a shortfall between the current strength figures and those of the establishment and I remain committed to addressing the ongoing challenges in relation to recruitment and retention in the Defence Forces. In that regard, a range of actions has been taken to address these issues, which includes the 15 projects undertaken to facilitate the implementation of the Public Service Pay Commission report on recruitment and retention. Most of these projects have been completed, with others being considered in the context of wider public sector pay arrangements.

The overall pay allocation provided to the defence Vote is €545 million. In the event that any pay savings arise at year end, these savings, in accordance with Government accounting procedures and in agreement with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, will be used to address other non-pay spending pressures throughout the Vote. I think we are the only Department that has that arrangement.

Defence was provided with a capital expenditure allocation of €141 million for this year. Progress on capital projects is reviewed on an ongoing basis and where any unforeseen delays arise on particular projects, other capital equipment and infrastructural projects are brought forward insofar as is possible. There are a significant number of ongoing defence equipment programmes. I have a list of them, which I will send on to the Deputy.

Obviously everyone in this House wants to see defence spending increase. There is a recognition that we need to spend much more money on our defence capacity, but the concern is that the money received is not all being spent. I listened carefully to the Minister's answer and I note what he says about the €836 million. It appears that part of the problem is that although we have a minimum requirement of 9,500 members of the Defence Forces, we are not getting up to those numbers. We are significantly below that figure, which is a contributing factor to this under-profile spend.

What can the Minister do to ensure he is not in a position whereby money being allocated to the Department is not being spent and must be sent back? Given that we all recognise that defence spending must be increased, it is disappointing that some of the funding has to go back because it is not being spent.

To be clear, we have no intention of giving money back at the end of this year. That is the reason we have an arrangement with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. We have a budget and Estimate for 9,500 personnel and we currently have more money than we need to cover pay and conditions because we are just over 1,100 people short of where we should be. However, the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform knows and understands that we are short and has effectively given us the flexibility to divert unspent money in the pay area into other areas. It could be used for capital costs or other current expenditure costs outside pay. We have used that facility to a significant extent in recent years and we will do so again this year. In the first half of the year, before we are sure of our recruitment and retention numbers, it sometimes looks as if an underspend will build up but we make up for that in the second half of the year.

While I welcome the fact that we are not giving back money, if it is the case that we are not spending the full amount allocated for pay because of a lack of recruitment, the amount of money the Department is entitled to get for capital projects or other forms of spending will probably be necessarily reduced. We must identify how we can get Army strength up to the 9,500 members we set as the minimum requirement. I know that is a difficult task and that pay is part of it but there must be other elements to recruitment as well. Part of the reform of the Defence Forces in the future will be how we make it more attractive for people to join them on the basis that there is a good career ahead of them. I do not know if the Minister has any proposals in that respect.

We have a whole suite of proposals coming down the track on that. Three chapters in the commission's report relate to how we treat people in the Defence Forces; how we manage them; transparency around promotions; complaints procedures and how they function; the cultural change that is needed; and the fact that many women in the Defence Forces do not feel safe and welcome, which must and will change. A whole range of factors contribute to the recruitment and retention challenge on which we need to deliver. Pay and conditions are part of it but the commission was very direct with me that these are certainly not the sole element on which we need to focus. While we need to address pay and conditions, we also need to look at other issues around modernising the Defence Forces, having much more success in terms of gender balance, making a career in the Defence Forces more flexible and family-friendly and taking a much more modern approach to how we manage people.

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