Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 12 May 2022
8. Deputy Gary Gannon asked the Minister for Defence the steps he will take to ensure the retention of personnel in relation to the announcement that the Defence Forces will increase by 3,000 staff; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23485/22]
View answer20. Deputy Gary Gannon asked the Minister for Defence the steps he will take to increase recruitment in the Defence Forces; the details of the steps he will take in relation to pay conditions and to improve morale in the Defence Forces given the announcement of an increase of 3,000 in Defence Forces staff. [23487/22]
View answerMy questions pertain to the announcement of the intention to increase the Defence Forces by 3,000 staff. That is a worthy endeavour which I hope we achieve. In the meantime, how is it intended to ensure we keep the staff we already have? We talk a lot about pay and conditions but what other steps does the Minister intend to take to ensure we keep existing Defence Forces staff?
I propose to take Questions Nos. 8 and 20 together.
As I have just outlined to Deputies Brady and Berry, the Permanent Defence Force is currently under strength by just over 1,000 personnel. The report of the Commission on the Defence Forces has made it clear that the level of ambition, LOA, for the Defence Forces must be elevated beyond that at which it is operating at the moment.
The report outlines three levels of ambition. LOA 1 is essentially proceeding as we are at present and trying to move back to a full establishment figure of 9,500. The commission has concluded that this would leave the Defence Forces unable to mount a credible defence of the State. LOA 2 would address specific priority gaps to improve on-island and overseas capabilities. LOA 3 would bring Ireland in line with other small neutral European countries in terms of spend.
I am on the record as saying that LOA 2 is the minimum we should aim for. This level of ambition will require an additional 2,000 personnel beyond the establishment figure of 9,500 and an increase in the defence budget of some 50%. When I gave those figures to the media in response to a question, it was not the case that I was announcing there would be an additional 3,000 staff; I was simply reflecting what the commission recommends. I have to get agreement across the Government that we can support that financially. I hope the Government will make such an announcement in the next six weeks or so but, as of now, it is simply a recommendation that I was reflecting in my commentary, and one which I regard as necessary.
The Defence Forces are responsible for recruitment. I have requested them to examine their recruitment practices and structures to facilitate this increase in numbers. This commission report also includes a consideration of issues relating to culture, recruitment and retention, working hours, work-life balance, training, promotion, diversity and a host of other matters, all of which will have an impact on job satisfaction and morale.
The Deputy has probably heard most of what I have in my answer, so I will answer him directly. One of the reasons I wanted to travel to barracks after barracks and talk to serving personnel is so that I could hear from them about their frustrations and concerns and how we could respond to them realistically while at the same time maintaining military discipline and structure. It has been a good exercise. The commission has given a clear recommendation that we need to have a head of transformation in the Defence Forces, and that person will be a civilian, not a military person, reporting directly to the Chief of Staff and working out of Defence Forces headquarters, to bring about the kind of cultural, structural and HR attitudinal change that is necessary within the Defence Forces for it to modernise and to make it a more attractive career choice for men and women in the future. We can learn lessons from what others have done internationally in this space. We are not the only country that is trying to make this change. Other countries have been very successful and other countries have made mistakes we need to learn from.
That is the kind of work we are doing at the moment. We have quite a large civil and military team working together to try to put an action plan in place that I can bring to Government that will be credible and that will justify increased expenditure.
I thank the Minister for his response. He has answered my question about the other factors, so I will go a bit further. In terms of the message Minister gave to media about the potential for the recruitment of a further 3,000 staff, what units would those staff be in? Could the Minister give us some sense of this? Would that be in the Defence Forces? Would it be in the civilian department? Would it be in the Department of Defence, for example, in terms of recruiting more specialised personnel? In terms of where the Minister perceives that recruitment going, where would those units be expanded?
We must first get up to the existing establishment number, which is 9,500. We are approximately 1,100 below that figure. I gave the figures earlier that we are short of in the navy, the Air Corps, which it is hoped will become the air force in a few months’ time, and the Army. We need to get back up to the establishment figure of 9,500. It is pretty self-evident where we are short there. The numbers are clear.
Beyond that, the commission recommends an extra 2,000 people. Seven hundred of those are for the Naval Service for a specific purpose. The commission recommends we have what is called double crewing on ships. We have a big problem at the moment with recruitment and retention in the Naval Service because many people do not want to spend weeks and weeks at sea every year, away from family and so on. It is a big ask. Even if we do reward it financially, it is a big ask. The recommendation is that we introduce what is called double crewing, which means people would not have to spend as long at sea and we would have crew turnover more frequently. Of course, that means significantly more personnel in the Naval Service.
Go raibh maith agat, a Aire.
There are increases in the Air Corps and in the Army also. There will be increased civilianisation within the Defence Forces, as there has been quite successfully in An Garda Síochána, for example.
A Theachta, an bhfuil tú sásta?
Yes.
We have had much discussion with the Defence Forces around civilianisation, because we can recruit more quickly if people do not have to go through military training procedures and so on. We need to be careful with that because the Defence Forces operate on the basis of structure, discipline, common standards and so on. We need to ensure that if we introduce civilians into the Defence Forces, we do it in a targeted way that does not undermine military structures, efficiencies and so on. There is a role for that. Again, we can look at other militaries to see how that is being done, where certain specialties can be brought in either on contract or by bringing people in to fit into the Defence Force structures as civilians, just as we have seen in Garda stations, for example, with An Garda Síochána.
We need to have an open mind on all of this. We need to work with the Chief of Staff, with his team, with the Department of Defence and with the head of transformation to deliver the numbers we need to deliver over the next few years.
