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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-12-12/6/
12 Dec 1934 -
Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 -
Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Report Stage.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-05/10/
5 Jul 1934 -
Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—First Stage.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Committee Stage.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 -
Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Second Stage.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-12-12/6/
12 Dec 1934 -
"Dáil Eireann has agreed to the amendments made by Seanad Eireann to the Agricultural Co-operative Societies...(Debentures) Bill, 1934."
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Second Stage (Resumed).
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-08/10/
8 Aug 1934 -
Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Report and Final Stages.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
. - Agricultural Co-operative Societies Debentures Bill, 1934—Second Stage.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-09-12/4/
12 Sep 1934 -
Agricultural Co-Operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—From the Seanad. In Committee.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/17/
1 Aug 1934 -
. - Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Committee Stage.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/16/
1 Aug 1934 -
. - Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Money Resolution.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
They are to be called agricultural co-operative societies....There is no such thing as an agricultural co-operative society at present, but once a society comes under...the Bill, and is looking for debentures, it becomes an agricultural co-operative society....A registrar will be appointed to look after agricultural co-operative societies....by co-operative societies when that Bill comes along.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 -
Curran The object of this Bill is simply to give authority to co-operative societies to issue debentures...thing that could happen co-operative societies is to issue debentures....I am sure that the principle of the Bill is to give capital to co-operative societies....responsibility for that rather than issue debentures; that is, if co-operative societies need capital..., before a co-operative society issues debentures, they certainly would be much more entitled to call
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 -
It will give to co-operative societies the power to create, by debentures, a security charging all their...of agricultural co-operative societies, and will be welcomed by bodies such as the Agricultural Credit...The object of Section 6 of the Bill is to give co-operative agricultural societies legal power to obtain...Credit Corporation to some co-operative agricultural societies on the understanding that the uncalled...in the Department of Agriculture dealing with the whole question of co-operation.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
It has to do with debentures for any co-operative society....The Agricultural Credit Corporation does not propose to take debentures from the societies with which...This clause, dealing with the issue of debentures by agricultural co-operative societies, has nothing...powers we give to co-operative societies to issue debentures and a separate Bill dealing with the Agricultural...statement of the position on the Second Stage with regard to the safeguards that ordinary members have in a co-operative
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 -
(6) No issue of debentures shall be made by an agricultural co-operative society under this section...unless and until a resolution approving the issue of such debentures shall have been passed by a special...meeting of the shareholders of such society convened for the purpose of passing such resolution.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 -
I see, according to Section 4, that an Agricultural Co-operative Society, which is authorised by its...is or is not authorised, or is not forbidden by the rules of the society, issue debentures to any authorised...Does the Minister think that is not going to have an effect on the credit of all agricultural co-operative...The position is that, at one fell swoop, an agricultural credit co-operative society may find its entire...I should like to ask the Minister what portion of an agricultural co-operative society's debts is due
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
the Minister for Agriculture....I would say that there is no reasonable objection to giving co-operative societies power to issue debentures...on their part to give co-operative societies outright the power of issuing debentures if necessary....This Bill could have saved in the past a lot of co-operative societies from winding up if there had been...It is simply a Bill to make arrangements between co-operative societies and their creditors, and to facilitate
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 -
If a co-operative society is in difficulties and the shares are not fully subscribed, to issue debentures...It would suggest to a banker that the people who originally joined in the co-operative society were either...I have no association with co-operative societies; I do not know the position and, therefore, I cannot...Those debentures or the money buying them can be collared by the Agricultural Credit Corporation or any...The law is that a co-operative society has nothing with which to raise the wind except a bill of sale
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
societies such as have been mentioned....There must be a great number of co-operative societies in the country that would be relieved by such...a Bill as this....I think the whole intention of the Bill would be destroyed if its operation was limited to a few co-operative...societies.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
First as regards debentures. These co-operative societies cannot give debentures....We are only dealing here with agricultural co-operative Societies....The Agricultural Co-operative Society is more or less correctly defined in sub-section (4) of Section...co-operative society under this Act....There is a very great need of a general co-operative agricultural Bill.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 -
The idea of issuing debentures on the uncalled capital of an agricultural co-operative society and calling...If the agricultural society is in a bad way there are different ways of coming to its aid, but not by...men and competent men— the obligation to pay off bad debts incurred by men in a local area by issuing debentures...on the uncalled capital of an agricultural society.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 -
Belton We are not going to oppose this Bill....The Minister, at the conclusion of his remarks, said the Bill is necessary to solve an immediate problem...He said that as the law now stands co-operative societies only raise money by a bill of sale and, of...The Minister has in the Bill the bodies to whom those debentures would be offered....Of course it is a case of offering debentures in all cases to Government institutions or departments.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1978-02-08/3/
8 Feb 1978 -
MacSharry The 1934 Act relates to the issue of debentures by agricultural co-operative societies....Under section 5 such societies require the prior consent of the Minister for Agriculture to the issue...of debentures....The intervention of the Minister for Agriculture is no longer considered necessary and before taking...debentures the lending agencies themselves investigate the affairs of the society offering a debenture
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
Aiken Deputy Belton said: "I wonder has the Agricultural Credit Corporation made advances to such societies...Now, first of all, the Bill aims at giving co-operative societies the right to guarantee advances by...Power is being taken to give co-operative societies the right to issue debentures and to give them that...From 1928 onwards a certain number of co-operative societies wanted cash, and they went to the Credit...The Agricultural Credit Corporation pointed out to the then Minister for Agriculture, Mr.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
The Minister will remember that on the Second Reading of this Bill I raised the question of whether an...individual should be eligible to obtain a debenture over co-operative societies....them correctly when I say that he said that such a practice would be against the whole principle of co-operation...It would be against the principle of co-operation to allow an individual to obtain control of a society...society think fit, surely they should have the right to grant that individual a debenture, especially
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-09-12/4/
12 Sep 1934 -
A new sub-section inserted before the sub-section as follows:— (2) An issue of debentures shall not...be made by an agricultural co-operative society under this section unless either the committee of such...society has power under the rules of such society to borrow money and the amount to be borrowed on the...security of such debentures is within such borrowing power or a resolution approving of the making of...such issue has been passed by a special meeting of the shareholders of such society convened expressly
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 -
McMenamin I also wish to query the finance of this Bill. I do not understand its meaning at all....Is it in order to liquidate bad debts incurred by somebody that it is sought to raise debentures on the...uncalled capital of an agricultural co-operative society?...Some of those societies are 30 and 40 years old and some of the names of the original subscribers are...That is the meaning of the Bill. That is what is behind this Bill.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-05/10/
5 Jul 1934 -
Leave granted to introduce a Bill entitled an Act to empower certain societies registered under the Industrial...and Provident Societies Act, 1893, to issue debentures, and to borrow money on the security of their...uncalled capital, and for other purposes connected with the matters aforesaid.— (Minister for Agriculture
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
is to give co-operative societies power to raise debentures without the embarrassment of such debentures...minds of creditors but surely it would be possible by a simple Act to remove that stigma and to give co-operative...In the case of co-operative societies, they are generally very well secured—secured on joint and several...I consulted a certain authority who is expert in the management of these co-operative societies, and...to create a debenture, I hope the Seanad will not pass the Bill.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-09-12/4/
12 Sep 1934 -
That amendment was inserted by the Seanad because they had a certain anxiety that the committee of a co-operative...society might issue debentures without having authority from the members of the society to borrow money...As the amendment stands—and, in fact, as I am advised—no committee could issue debentures unless they...borrow, then it would be all right; but if they have no powers to borrow, then they must go to the society
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1978-02-08/3/
8 Feb 1978 -
MacSharry I move amendment No. 7 : In page 35, in the third column, opposite the mention of the Agricultural...Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Act, 1934, to add "and ‘capital sum of'" after "and with such consent
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 -
, and for this reason that the committees of management of rural co-operative societies of the kind referred...If the manager of a co-operative society approaches the committee and tells them that the financial position...co-operative societies in the country a weapon whereby far more injury than benefits will be done to...Because when an agricultural society got their loan from the Agricultural Credit Corporation they made...In consideration of that, they took the loan, and as far as I can see, if an agricultural co-operative
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 -
Minister for Agriculture (Dr....To insert before the sub-section a new sub-section as follows:— (2) An issue of debentures shall not...be made by an agricultural co-operative society under this section unless either the committee of such...society has power under the rules of such society to borrow money and the amount to be borrowed on the...security of such debentures is within such borrowing power or a resolution approving of the making of
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
Dillon I desire to give my support to that part of the Bill which provides for the distribution of the...debentures of a society rather than having the responsibility put on a few men....Will the Minister say if a society can create debentures to pay off an old outstanding debt, and whether...Can it be applied retrospectively so that the lenders will be compelled to accept the newly created debentures...Would a society for the curing of bacon say, be included in the category of agricultural societies?
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
McMenamin Is this an agricultural society or a co-operative society?
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
Aiken Between £4,000 and £5,000—that is to co-operative societies with the understanding that when this...Bill becomes law they will give the Agricultural Credit Corporation the first charge on the uncalled
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
Ryan What I want to make clear is that the Committee in Plunkett House, who have been running the co-operative...movement for 25 years and who know the pitfalls and difficulties of co-operation and, perhaps, the weaknesses...I want to make it clear that it was more the wish of the co-operative movement itself than of the Department...amount of money was voted by the State to buy out the proprietary creameries and hand them over to co-operative...societies.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
With regard to these co-operative societies, I would like to know if the position is this: that two or...three recalcitrant members are in a position to be able to hold up the issue of debentures?...If we pass this Bill as it stands and as the Minister wants us to do, might not a majority of the shareholders...who were opposed to the issuing of these debentures feel very strongly against us for enabling the committee
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
co-operative societies, would lead to a tremendous lot of trouble, and it is a thing for which, if the...When this Bill is passed, the ruling body or committee, I suppose, of this co-operative society will...This Bill enables the society to issue debentures and to give an outside lender a right of action against...It enables them to come in now where the society had no right to issue debentures....It is a talk between some manager or representative of the society and some official of the Agricultural
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
Aiken They are agricultural co-operative societies....This Bill aims at giving legal sanction to what was an honourable understanding, and, I would say to...what was a legal binding contract in the ordinary way between the Agricultural Credit Corporation and...the co-operative societies who have got money from them....Deputy Dillon said that this Bill might involve the unfortunate shareholders in a liability they never
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
made by an agricultural co-operative society under this section unless and until a resolution approving...Sub-section (1) of the section reads:— (1) An agricultural co-operative society which is authorised...issue of debentures by the societies....shall be made by an agricultural co-operative society under this section unless and until a resolution...As far as I know, what the societies want is leave to issue debentures.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
Ryan The point I want to make is that in the drafting of the main Co-operative Bill we have been in...consultation with various advisers, if you like to call them that, of the co-operative movement....We have consulted many times with those who have been in charge of the co-operative movement for the...for the issuing of these debentures....Societies to take on this duty and he refused.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
Aiken That is an extract from an agreement between a co-operative society and the Agricultural Credit
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
Minister for Agriculture (Dr....Hogan, and I have carried out an identical policy with regard to creamery development as far as the co-operative...We have tried to make all the creameries in the country co-operative and every attempt by a proprietor...to get any foothold, or any hold whatever, on a co-operative society has been resisted as far as we...way out which an individual would have would be to get some co-operative society to take over the creamery
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
Notwithstanding anything contained in any other enactment, the Registrar of Industrial and Provident Societies...shall not register any alteration of the rules of an agricultural co-operative society which, in his...opinion, effects any change of or variation in the objects of such society, unless such alteration has
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2020-07-14/22/
14 Jul 2020 -
formation and general operation of industrial and provident societies, primarily co-operatives, in Ireland...The purpose of the Bill is to consolidate the existing industrial and provident societies legislation...and the report on the Private Members' Industrial and Provident Societies (Amendment) Bill 2018 prepared...The Bill will, among other issues, provide co-operative societies with a distinct legislative identity...reflecting the co-operatives' ethos, revise the provisions on debentures, introduce audit exemptions
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
point raised by the last Senator, under the definition section a bacon factory would come under this Bill...is nothing in the Bill to say that the lender of the old debt must accept the debentures....When a general meeting approves of the issuing of debentures, societies are thereby authorised to do...If that wording was not in this Bill perhaps four general meetings would be required....Every member of a society has a voice, and no debentures can be issued unless the majority of the members
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
The reason why the words "whether the issue of debentures is or is not authorised or is or is not forbidden..., no solicitor or barrister would have provided for power to the society to issue debentures....A society may or may not give power to its committee to borrow....society, irrespective of this Bill....debentures without consulting the members.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
Jameson Would it not be better to leave it out for the present until the final Bill is brought in, because...You are taking away from these societies the right of issuing debentures which might be very useful....issue debentures if they find it necessary, and then, when you get the proper officials appointed under...your final Bill, let that go in?...This is only a temporary measure and it seems a pity in the meantime to take away the right from the societies
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
society will have to concur in the issue of these debentures before the certificate of the Minister...If that is to be the expectation, then agricultural co-operative societies are going to be segregated...We all think that we understand what an agricultural co-operative society is, but in future we shall...not understand what an agricultural co-operative society is unless we have some evidence that it is a...If the proposed Co-operative Bill is going to set up a special registrar whose functions will be very
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
The section reads "whether the issue of debentures is or is not authorised or is or is not forbidden...by the rules of such society..."...whose rules forbid the issue of debentures by the committee....I take the view that if the Legislature is coming in with a Bill to deal with such a case, at any rate...where the rules forbid a society from issuing debentures, then in such a case the shareholders should
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
I would point out to the Minister that the matter has become practically an issue under this Bill....Hitherto such societies were unable to raise debentures at all....lender might say to the society: "If you do so I will put the society into liquidation."...In such a case the Minister may decide that it would be better to allow the society to issue debentures...to an individual than to break up the society.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
As Senators can only speak once on the next stage of the Bill, I think that those who are interested...The Minister said, in effect, that a society might be quite solvent and yet need power to issue debentures...If a society is quite solvent it is quite solvent, and the power to issue debentures has nothing to do...A society might protect itself....should bear that in mind in any amendment that he may be prepared to accept on a later stage of the Bill
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
If he accepts what I say, then we can deal with this question of debentures solely....If this Bill goes through, as drafted, these committees will be able to issue debentures without consulting...On the other hand, some of the societies which have asked for this Bill are in rather a precarious position...are quite solvent, if they get the chance to issue debentures....The publicity of the meeting may ruin some of these societies.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
I am afraid that if we were to sanction an individual getting debentures we would be, as it were, giving...We told him he must get rid of it either to the co-operative society or to some other society.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1979-05-03/13/
3 May 1979 -
things, the need for new legislation to govern the operations of agricultural co-operatives....(Amendment) Bill, 1978 on 11 October 1978....code which governs the operations of agricultural co-operatives....co-operatives....In particular it updated accounting requirements for societies, including agricultural co-operatives,
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 -
If a committee of a society has now the right to issue debentures without calling their shareholders...together, I do not think that this Bill is intended to interfere with that....I only came into the matter where the Bill introduced something new.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/16/
1 Aug 1934 -
authorise payment out of moneys provided by the Oireachtas of any expenses incurred by the Minister for Agriculture...in carrying into effect any Act of the present session to empower certain societies registered under...the Industrial and Provident Societies Act, 1893, to issue debentures, and to borrow money on the security
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
Aiken A co-operative society.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
Aiken They are co-operative societies.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
Jameson Can the Minister say why the right to issue debentures is being taken away from the societies
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
Aiken Deputy McMenamin said, anyway, that the Bill was all hog-wash....The Agricultural Credit Corporation took every precaution to see that, when this Bill would become law...Hogan suggested, they got actually the co-operative societies to whom advances were made to alter their...One society had as a rule:— "That any loan or loans from time to time made by the Department of Agriculture...That rule was changed so that "any loan advanced by the Agricultural Credit Corporation upon the uncalled
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 -
The object of Senator Jameson's amendment was, I think, to secure that, whatever borrowing powers the societies...may have hitherto possessed, if they wish to raise debentures in the future under this Bill, they should
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/17/
1 Aug 1934 -
Cosgrave I understood, when the Bill was being introduced, that it was an empowering Bill rather than...a retrospective Bill....The Bill, as I understand it, was not for the benefit of the Agricultural Credit Corporation but rather...to give whatever help the statutes up to this had not provided for the co-operative societies....In other words, to go on the principle of raising debentures, and to give them an opportunity to get
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 -
Dillon The question of calling on the unpaid capital of co-operative societies has been raised in a...I am interested in a co-operative society, not a dairy society, which has about 10/- per share of unpaid...could not agree that we should give power to the Credit Corporation to call on the unpaid capital of societies
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
as I can understand, the Minister has no objection to negotiations taking place for the issuing of debentures...His position is that he does not wish the shareholders of a society to be consulted on that matter until...But when the negotiations are completed, is the Minister prepared to recommend that a society should...the Minister's position when he says that it would be objectionable to have a general meeting of a society...into liquidation, while on the other hand if the debenture issue was arranged the society could be kept
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
Miss Browne I happen to be a member of the committee of an agricultural co-operative society....a very great service to the ordinary shareholder, who does not bother about the management of these co-operative...societies....They are in a very peculiar position with regard to this Bill....The situation that will be created under this Bill is a most extraordinary one.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
Since then the Agricultural Credit Corporation were waiting until some Bill was introduced amending the...Agricultural Credit Corporation Act or some such Bill as this....As a matter of fact, no other society except those particular societies that owe money to the Agricultural...Legally, however, the Agricultural Credit Corporation could not take such a charge until this Bill is...As far as the societies are concerned, they altered their rules specially to allow the Agricultural Credit
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1979-02-13/47/
13 Feb 1979 -
O'Malley) I would refer the Deputy to my speech on the Second Reading of the Industrial and Provident Societies...(Amendment) Bill, 1978, in which I indicated my intention to have commenced, as soon as other legislative...priorities permitted, a complete and full overhaul of the industrial and provident societies code which...governs the operations of agricultural co-operatives....In particular, it up-dated accounting requirements for societies, including agricultural co-operatives
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-09-12/4/
12 Sep 1934 -
Cosgrave If the Minister were a member of a co-operative society be might not think so.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
The Minister, in moving the amendment, said that the legal adviser to the Agricultural Credit Corporation...Corporation was of opinion that they could not lawfully compel the companies concerned to issue these debentures...in a Private Bill....That Bill never came forward....Edenderry is an agricultural country. Perhaps some Senator can tell me where Imokelly is.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
Aiken The Deputy ought to know then that the usual way for co-operative societies to raise funds when...I think myself that from the point of view of co-operation it would be much better for the shareholders
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-07/3/
7 Aug 1934 -
the Agenda in the following order:— 7 — Motion for Seanad Election; 8 — Military Service Pensions Bill...; 11 — Agricultural Produce (Cereals) Bill; 12 — Slaughter of Cattle and Sheep Bill; 13 — Industrial...Alcohol Bill; 9 — Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill; 10— Creamery Amendment Bill;...14— Tobacco Bill.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/2020-07-24/9/
24 Jul 2020 -
current review is wide-ranging and encompasses issues from registration with the Registry of Friendly Societies...to operational governance and winding-up issues relating to co-operatives....Based on the review, a general scheme of a co-operative societies Bill is being prepared which will provide...co-operative societies with a distinct legislative identity reflecting their co-operative ethos, reducing...the number of members required to form a co-operative, revising the provisions on debentures, introduce
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/21/
1 Aug 1934 -
societies....societies at the moment....It is also quite possible that some of the existing rehandlers will be disqualified under this Bill as...societies....the moment we cannot confine it to the co-operative concerns.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
Dillon The Minister in speaking said that one purpose suitable for the issue of debentures was to pay...Does the Minister think that would be a suitable occasion to issue debentures and make a charge on uncalled
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
Aiken) Deputy Belton sounded the keynote of the Opposition speeches to the Debentures Bill....He said: "We are not going to oppose the Bill. We merely offer criticism founded on suspicion."...Both he and Deputy McMenamin, as well as Deputy Dillon, went on to offer criticism of the Bill founded
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/21/
1 Aug 1934 -
Belton Will the co-operative societies come into competition in the matter of rehandling.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/21/
1 Aug 1934 -
The position is that while co-operatives are allowed 3d. per lb. for rehandling they are also shareholders...The co-operative societies have no profits.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/21/
1 Aug 1934 -
Belton Can the Minister tell us at what price the co-operative societies are rehandling it?
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 -
We were pressing, in Committee, that, in every case where debentures were issued, a meeting of the shareholders...The argument was that the creation of debentures in the new form raised a totally new issue, and that
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/21/
1 Aug 1934 -
Cosgrave Deputy Belton wants to know how much it costs the co-operative societies to rehandle.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/25/
19 Jul 1934 -
The only thing I should like to be assured of is, as I said before, that only co-operative societies...I believe that the sale of seed should be altogether in the hands of co-operative societies....It could be tested within the co-operative societies....In the Meath Co-operative Society we have our own plants and are in a position to produce our native...I think it would be much better if the Minister in the Bill compelled co-operative growers to send their
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 -
If they are legal agreements which can be acted upon, what is the need for this Bill at all?...I know that, in the case of the bank with which I am associated, we have, in some cases, got debentures...in the case of loans made to these societies....We have legally got debentures issued....The justification is an agreement between the late Minister for Agriculture and the lending Corporation—that
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
Sir John Keane I very much hope the House will insist upon limiting the Bill to those societies already...I gather from the Minister that these societies cover the ground....I am puzzled in regard to some of the proposals in the Bill and that is the reason why I suggested that...I know of cases where money has been advanced to societies, not by the Agricultural Credit Corporation..., but by societies working on the same principle.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
him that a refusal to accept this amendment will be simply restricting the avenues through which a co-operative...in the district from which he came, and I know as a fact that he gave financial accommodation to the co-operative...Otherwise it may keep away from a society very valuable help at a critical time.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
to some of us to be doing what, in the ordinary way, would be regarded as giving a preference to the Agricultural...I suggest to the Minister that instead of having the Bill general in its application it should be confined...to the societies that made those agreements with the Agricultural Credit Corporation.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/17/
1 Aug 1934 -
The Government at the time—it was about 1929 this thing occurred—and the Minister for Agriculture in...The remainder was advanced by the Agricultural Credit Corporation....The Agricultural Credit Corporation at the time realised that it had not full powers to do that, but...it was told that there was a Co-operative Bill in preparation and that things would be made right for...it under the Bill.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
Johnson Would the Minister clear this up: whether the societies mentioned in the proposed schedule were...form and understanding that they were to be capitalised, as to a great part of their capital, by the Agricultural...If any of these societies are to look for new money the shareholders were taken into consultation and...the whole proceedings were conducted when the society was formed on the understanding that that would
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-06-19/11/
19 Jun 1934 -
Lemass The case of the society known as the Templecrone Co-operative Society?
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1936-05-19/17/
19 May 1936 -
Professor O'Sullivan In 1934 over 1931, a year when this measure was not in existence, and you had...32 co-operative societies then.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
Jameson I expect the Minister will tell us, on Report Stage, the facts in connection with these societies...I ask the Committee to confine the Bill to certain societies specified....It would be a very bad Bill if it worked so that it could be applied to any or to an unlimited number...of societies....But if it is made certain that it is to be applied only to a specified lot of societies I think the
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/21/
1 Aug 1934 -
unfortunate part of it is that unless a sufficient quota of tobacco is available to give enough work to the co-operative...societies that are dealing with rehandling, these societies will not be able to go ahead....Should there be a balance after the co-operative societies have dealt with what they are capable of dealing
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
, because they got to know that the Agricultural Credit Corporation could not collect it legally....With regard to the amendment of Senator Jameson, instead of the Agricultural Credit Corporation applying...to the Minister for Agriculture showing that these conditions have been fulfilled and asking for an...The Agricultural Credit Corporation say, as far as they are concerned, that it does not matter to them...The societies, however, might object to having their names published.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/21/
1 Aug 1934 -
It is a question whether the co-operative societies will naturally capture all the business.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1928-07-06/12/
6 Jul 1928 -
HOGAN Credit and co-operative societies. We are at one with the Agricultural Credit Corporation....It is not my business to organise credit societies—that is the business of the I.A.O.S....The Department of Agriculture, both in the interests of co-operation itself and of the Department, should...not be asked to take on the work of organising credit or co-operative societies.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
and say "Now the time has come when we must call up capital to pay liabilities", but you would issue debentures
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/21/
1 Aug 1934 -
If the rehandling licences are confined to the co-operative societies of growers, who have rehandling...After all, there is a very strong argument for confining rehandlers' licences solely to co-operative...I understand that in Cork our co-operative society can deal with 15,000 lbs. of tobacco a week in the...From what I can see, I think the co-operative society in Meath will be able to cope with a large quantity...I think there are a couple of other co-operative societies which are prepared to go ahead as rehandling
