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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-12-12/6/
12 Dec 1934 - Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Committee Stage.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 - Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Report Stage.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-05/10/
5 Jul 1934 - Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—First Stage.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-12-12/6/
12 Dec 1934 - "Dáil Eireann has agreed to the amendments made by Seanad Eireann to the Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934."
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 - Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Second Stage (Resumed).
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 - Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Second Stage.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-09-12/4/
12 Sep 1934 - Agricultural Co-Operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—From the Seanad. In Committee.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-08/10/
8 Aug 1934 - Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Report and Final Stages.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - Public Business. - Agricultural Co-operative Societies Debentures Bill, 1934—Second Stage.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/17/
1 Aug 1934 - In Committee on Finance. - Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Committee Stage.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/16/
1 Aug 1934 - In Committee on Finance. - Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Money Resolution.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 - Corporation and banks. The object of Section 6 of the Bill is to give co-operative agricultural societies... Mr. Aiken I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time." Co-operative societies registered..., and the credit of the co-operative societies is immediately affected whenever they attempt to issue debentures... of agricultural co-operative societies, and will be welcomed by bodies such as the Agricultural Credit... Corporation to some co-operative agricultural societies on the understanding that the uncalled capital
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 - Mr. Curran The object of this Bill is simply to give authority to co-operative societies to issue... debentures. As one who has been associated with a co-operative society for not so very long, I... think that the worst thing that could happen co-operative societies is to issue debentures. With regard... the position. I am sure that the principle of the Bill is to give capital to co-operative societies... on the responsibility for that rather than issue debentures; that is, if co-operative societies need capital
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - we give to co-operative societies to issue debentures and a separate Bill dealing...-operative society. The Agricultural Credit Corporation does not propose to take debentures from... by agricultural co-operative societies, has nothing to do with the Agricultural Credit Corporation. If you like... nothing to do with the Agricultural Credit Corporation. It has to do with debentures for any co... in a co-operative society. I think I stated here that the ordinary members would be acquainted
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 - (6) No issue of debentures shall be made by an agricultural co-operative society under... this section unless and until a resolution approving the issue of such debentures shall have been passed... by a special meeting of the shareholders of such society convened for the purpose of passing such resolution.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - number of societies such as have been mentioned. There must be a great number of co-operative... the whole intention of the Bill would be destroyed if its operation was limited to a few co-operative... societies in the country that would be relieved by such a Bill as this. I know some myself. I think... Mr. Dillon I do not agree that this Bill should be limited in its application to any particular... societies. I have no great doubts about the shareholders being consulted as to the issuing
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - of the issue of debentures by co-operative societies when that Bill comes along. There is an objection.... They are to be called agricultural co-operative societies. There is no such thing as an agricultural co-operative... an agricultural co-operative society. It may not be any more agricultural than other societies... the whole co-operative movement in the main Bill will be known as the Agricultural Co-operative... and Seanad. A registrar will be appointed to look after agricultural co-operative societies. He
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 - societies? The position is that, at one fell swoop, an agricultural credit co-operative society may... the Minister think that is not going to have an effect on the credit of all agricultural co-operative... trade creditors and is not going to improve the position of co-operative societies as a whole. I... should like to ask the Minister what portion of an agricultural co-operative society's debts is due... hand what they are giving with the other. I see, according to Section 4, that an Agricultural Co
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 - week. The idea of issuing debentures on the uncalled capital of an agricultural co-operative.... If the agricultural society is in a bad way there are different ways of coming to its aid... incurred by men in a local area by issuing debentures on the uncalled capital of an agricultural... society and calling it finance and that this House is asked to give its imprimatur to it is an outrage... society. This uncalled capital in many cases, we know, is not only worthless. Is there going to be any
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 - debentures. I would say that there is no reasonable objection to giving co-operative societies power... on their part to give co-operative societies outright the power of issuing debentures if necessary. A number... Mr. Aiken Anybody who has any knowledge of co-operative societies, or of any other business... for that matter, knows that at some time or another a co-operative society or business may get... assets or bonds, or something else. One of the assets of a co-operative society is the balance
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 - . The law is that a co-operative society has nothing with which to raise the wind except a bill of sale... this S.O.S. on behalf of co-operative societies and pull wool across the eyes of the banks. If a co...-operative society is in difficulties and the shares are not fully subscribed, to issue debentures while... with the observation of the Minister that this practice of certain members of co-operative societies having to go... did irreparable damage to the co-operative movement. I wonder has the Agricultural Credit
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 - of all, the Bill aims at giving co-operative societies the right to guarantee advances by giving over... co-operative societies the right to issue debentures and to give them that right retrospectively.... From 1928 onwards a certain number of co-operative societies wanted cash, and they went to the Credit... to such societies that cannot be recovered now?" He went on to say: "The Bill might be a way... Mr. Aiken Deputy Belton said: "I wonder has the Agricultural Credit Corporation made advances
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 - problem is. He said that as the law now stands co-operative societies only raise money by a bill of sale... Mr. Belton We are not going to oppose this Bill. The Minister, at the conclusion of his remarks..., said the Bill is necessary to solve an immediate problem. He did not say what that immediate... and, of course, that damages credit. The Minister has in the Bill the bodies to whom those... debentures would be offered. Of course it is a case of offering debentures in all cases to Government institutions or departments.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1978-02-08/3/
8 Feb 1978 - Mr. MacSharry The 1934 Act relates to the issue of debentures by agricultural co-operative... societies. Under section 5 such societies require the prior consent of the Minister for Agriculture... of the society offering a debenture in order to check on their credit-worthiness. ... to the issue of debentures. It is proposed to dispense with this requirement and it will no longer... be necessary to have his consent. The intervention of the Minister for Agriculture is no longer
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1978-02-08/3/
8 Feb 1978 - of the Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Act, 1934, to add "and ‘capital sum of'" after "and with such consent of the Minister as is mentioned in this Act".
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 - Mr. McMenamin Is this an agricultural society or a co-operative society?
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - . There are two matters dealt with in this Bill. The position in some co-operative societies.... First as regards debentures. These co-operative societies cannot give debentures. The result... Societies. The Agricultural Co-operative Society is more or less correctly defined in sub-section (4... that it is an agricultural co-operative society under this Act. Once certified that it is so, then that society may go... we are only taking powers to watch very closely agricultural co-operative societies
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - co-operative societies. Under the Bill as proposed, such eligible lender must have the approval... of this Bill I raised the question of whether an individual should be eligible to obtain a debenture over... the whole principle of co-operation. It would be against the principle of co-operation to allow... way, any debenture in favour of an individual must be approved in the ordinary way under the rules... to an individual obtaining a debenture, even under those safeguards. I have not got his exact words
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 - debentures on the uncalled capital of an agricultural co-operative society? Some of those societies are 30... Mr. McMenamin I also wish to query the finance of this Bill. I do not understand its meaning.... That is the meaning of the Bill. That is what is behind this Bill. Let us not go out of this House to-night... as a result of the bad management, incompetence and blundering of societies, and it is sought to impose that liability on the community. I object to that.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-09-12/4/
12 Sep 1934 - of debentures shall not be made by an agricultural co-operative society under this section unless either... the committee of such society has power under the rules of such society to borrow money and the amount... to be borrowed on the security of such debentures is within such borrowing power or a resolution... of such society convened expressly for the purpose of considering and, if thought fit, passing such resolution.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 - of agricultural co-operative societies in the country a weapon whereby far more injury than benefits... in Section 4 of this Bill, and for this reason that the committees of management of rural co-operative... issue. If the manager of a co-operative society approaches the committee and tells them...-operative society has borrowed some money from the Agricultural Credit Corporation and is unable to meet... societies of the kind referred to here are not familiar at all with the principle underlying debenture
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-05/10/
5 Jul 1934 - Leave granted to introduce a Bill entitled an Act to empower certain societies registered under... the Industrial and Provident Societies Act, 1893, to issue debentures, and to borrow money... on the security of their uncalled capital, and for other purposes connected with the matters aforesaid.— (Minister for Agriculture, Dr. Ryan).
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 - Mr. Aiken Between £4,000 and £5,000—that is to co-operative societies with the understanding... that when this Bill becomes law they will give the Agricultural Credit Corporation the first charge on the uncalled capital.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 - Mr. Aiken They are agricultural co-operative societies. I think what I have said should do away... Corporation and the co-operative societies who have got money from them. I will deal now with some... transaction. This Bill aims at giving legal sanction to what was an honourable understanding, and, I... would say to what was a legal binding contract in the ordinary way between the Agricultural Credit... of the other points that were made. Deputy Dillon said that this Bill might involve the unfortunate shareholders in a liability they never meant to undertake.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-09-12/4/
12 Sep 1934 - that the committee of a co-operative society might issue debentures without having authority from the members... of the society to borrow money. As the amendment stands—and, in fact, as I am advised—no committee... could issue debentures unless they had powers to borrow. If they had powers to borrow, then it would... be all right; but if they have no powers to borrow, then they must go to the society.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 - as follows:— (2) An issue of debentures shall not be made by an agricultural co-operative society under... Minister for Agriculture (Dr. Ryan) I am proposing to change the wording of the Senator's... this section unless either the committee of such society has power under the rules of such society... to borrow money and the amount to be borrowed on the security of such debentures is within... of the shareholders of such society convened expressly for the purpose of considering
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - to accept the newly created debentures? Would a society for the curing of bacon say, be included in the category of agricultural societies? ... for the distribution of the debentures of a society rather than having the responsibility put on a few men. I have... Mr. Dillon I desire to give my support to that part of the Bill which provides... I would like to have information from the Minister. Will the Minister say if a society can create... debentures to pay off an old outstanding debt, and whether this measure can be applied
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 - Mr. Aiken That is an extract from an agreement between a co-operative society and the Agricultural Credit Corporation.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - it. With regard to these co-operative societies, I would like to know if the position is this: that two... or three recalcitrant members are in a position to be able to hold up the issue of debentures? I... this Bill as it stands and as the Minister wants us to do, might not a majority of the shareholders who... were opposed to the issuing of these debentures feel very strongly against us for enabling
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - the co-operative movement for 25 years and who know the pitfalls and difficulties of co-operation... want to make it clear that it was more the wish of the co-operative movement itself than...-operative societies. If we were to allow an individual to take over the affairs of a creamery and so... and, perhaps, the weaknesses of the societies at times, have asked me to put somebody in charge... of this. As a matter of fact, they are keen that the Minister for Agriculture should do it because
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - and Provident Societies shall not register any alteration of the rules of an agricultural co-operative society... which, in his opinion, effects any change of or variation in the objects of such society, unless such alteration has been approved of in writing by the Minister.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - no substantial difference to the principle where the ostensible object of the Bill is to give co-operative... societies power to raise debentures without the embarrassment of such debentures becoming a bill of sale... be possible by a simple Act to remove that stigma and to give co-operative societies powers... that they are creditors, secured or unsecured. In the case of co-operative societies, they are generally... of these co-operative societies, and he sees no objection whatever to having an individual, same
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - :— No issue of debentures shall be made by an agricultural co-operative society under this section unless...-section as follows:— (6) No issue of debentures shall be made by an agricultural co-operative... with the issue of debentures by the societies. In the Bill as it originally came before the Dáil... whether or not the societies should issue these debentures, I think the Bill is a very dangerous... society under this section unless and until a resolution approving the issue of such debentures shall have
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - for power to the society to issue debentures. He would not have given these powers, because... of this Bill. On the other hand, if a society has given its committee power to borrow... Dr. Ryan No. I was wrong in that. The reason why the words "whether the issue of debentures... is or is not authorised or is or is not forbidden by the rules of such society" are used is that when... serious as they appear. A society may or may not give power to its committee to borrow. Some societies
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - . On the other hand, some of the societies which have asked for this Bill are in rather a precarious position...—the societies are quite solvent, if they get the chance to issue debentures. If they do not get... I say, then we can deal with this question of debentures solely. The position... is that the amendment proposed by Senator Jameson would only be necessary where a society has given power to its... that there are such cases. If this Bill goes through, as drafted, these committees will be able to issue
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - by shareholders in the case of a society whose rules forbid the issue of debentures by the committee... in with a Bill to deal with such a case, at any rate where the rules forbid a society from issuing... by the Senator. The section reads "whether the issue of debentures is or is not authorised... or is or is not forbidden by the rules of such society..." That means that there was agreement entered into between... the members or shareholders and the society concerned. If we pass this section as it stands, or even
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 - Mr. Aiken A co-operative society.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - Dr. Ryan The point I want to make is that in the drafting of the main Co-operative Bill we have... been in consultation with various advisers, if you like to call them that, of the co-operative... movement. We have consulted many times with those who have been in charge of the co-operative movement... sanction or to refuse sanction to these societies for the issuing of these debentures.... They are anxious that somebody should do it. As I say, when I was bringing in this temporary Bill I asked
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - done which, if it were being done to other businesses than agricultural co-operative societies, would... suppose, of this co-operative society will have power to do a thing which according to the articles.... This Bill enables the society to issue debentures and to give an outside lender a right of action..., or is or is not forbidden by the rules of the society, these debentures can be issued now when... and articles of association of the company or, as in this case, the society. This Bill goes
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - factory would come under this Bill. As regards the other point he raised, these debentures could... debt must accept the debentures. There would have to be agreement between the society and the lender... for the issuing of debentures. When a general meeting approves of the issuing of debentures, societies... to issue the debentures. Three meetings would have to be called to allow the society to get through... meeting. Every member of a society has a voice, and no debentures can be issued unless the majority of the members agree to do so.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 - Mr. Aiken They are co-operative societies.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - debentures. I do not understand what that means. If a society is quite solvent it is quite solvent..., and the power to issue debentures has nothing to do with it. A society might protect itself. It might... powers and issue debentures. I do not think that is reasonable because a society will then have... Committee of the House. As Senators can only speak once on the next stage of the Bill, I think that those.... The Minister said, in effect, that a society might be quite solvent and yet need power to issue
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - any foothold, or any hold whatever, on a co-operative society has been resisted as far as we could do... an individual would have would be to get some co-operative society to take over the creamery, so... policy with regard to creamery development as far as the co-operative movement is concerned. We have... tried to make all the creameries in the country co-operative and every attempt by a proprietor to get... the reply that no licence will be given except to a co-operative body, and the only way out which
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1979-05-03/13/
3 May 1979 - overhaul of the industrial and provident societies code which governs the operations of agricultural co... Organisation Society whose document "Framework for Co-operative Development", dated January 1979, also... urges, among other things, the need for new legislation to govern the operations of agricultural co... the develop ment of, agricultural co-operatives. As the Deputy is aware, the Industrial... agricultural co-operatives, to coincide with basic company law requirements with a view to ensuring
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - has become practically an issue under this Bill. Hitherto such societies were unable to raise... that it would be better to allow the society to issue debentures to an individual than to break up... and that he may never contemplate sanctioning an individual as a debenture holder, he may—I do not care... debentures at all. And now that they are in a position to issue debentures, the case might... be contemplated in which an individual lender might say to the society: "If you do so I will put the society
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - . If that is to be the expectation, then agricultural co-operative societies are going to be segregated... these certificates. We all think that we understand what an agricultural co-operative society... is, but in future we shall not understand what an agricultural co-operative society is unless we have some... of the majority. If the proposed Co-operative Bill is going to set up a special registrar whose functions... into a schedule to the Bill these particular societies, so that inquiry could be made
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - these societies the right of issuing debentures which might be very useful. If this is only a temporary... Bill, why not leave it as it is for the present, giving them the power to issue debentures... Mr. Jameson Would it not be better to leave it out for the present until the final Bill... if they find it necessary, and then, when you get the proper officials appointed under your final Bill, let... that go in? This is only a temporary measure and it seems a pity in the meantime to take away the right from the societies.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 - Mr. Jameson I do not quite see Senator Sir John Keane's point. If a committee of a society has... now the right to issue debentures without calling their shareholders together, I do not think... that this Bill is intended to interfere with that. That is the view I took. I only came into the matter... where the Bill introduced something new. I cannot see where the two amendments disagree. I did
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 - , if they wish to raise debentures in the future under this Bill, they should go to the shareholders... was, I think, to secure that, whatever borrowing powers the societies may have hitherto possessed
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 - Mr. Dillon The question of calling on the unpaid capital of co-operative societies has been... raised in a very serious way by Senator Jameson. I am interested in a co-operative society, not a dairy... society, which has about 10/- per share of unpaid capital—in the case of some shareholders it would..., for one at all events, could not agree that we should give power to the Credit Corporation to call on the unpaid capital of societies.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 - . As Mr. Hogan suggested, they got actually the co-operative societies to whom advances were made to alter... by the Department of Agriculture and Technical Instruction for Ireland to the Society and any... Mr. Aiken Deputy McMenamin said, anyway, that the Bill was all hog-wash. That was one of his... legalise the position. The Agricultural Credit Corporation took every precaution to see that, when... this Bill would become law, they would have a complete legal right to recover the advances they made
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - Mr. Jameson Can the Minister say why the right to issue debentures is being taken away from the societies?
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - that confirmed by a Bill. Since then the Agricultural Credit Corporation were waiting until some Bill... was introduced amending the Agricultural Credit Corporation Act or some such Bill..., no other society except those particular societies that owe money to the Agricultural Credit.... Legally, however, the Agricultural Credit Corporation could not take such a charge until this Bill... Dr. Ryan No. The pledge which he gave to the other societies or to the Dairy Disposals Board
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/16/
1 Aug 1934 - the Industrial and Provident Societies Act, 1893, to issue debentures, and to borrow money on the security... of moneys provided by the Oireachtas of any expenses incurred by the Minister for Agriculture in carrying... into effect any Act of the present session to empower certain societies registered under
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - in putting the society into liquidation, while on the other hand if the debenture issue was arranged... place for the issuing of debentures. His position is that he does not wish the shareholders... of a society to be consulted on that matter until all the negotiations in connection with the issue have been... that a society should then meet and have the power to veto any arrangements which had been made by its... to have a general meeting of a society at the beginning of negotiations because of the fact
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-07/3/
7 Aug 1934 - — Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill; 10— Creamery Amendment Bill; 14— Tobacco Bill... in the following order:— 7 — Motion for Seanad Election; 8 — Military Service Pensions Bill; 11 — Agricultural... Produce (Cereals) Bill; 12 — Slaughter of Cattle and Sheep Bill; 13 — Industrial Alcohol Bill; 9
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 - Mr. Aiken The Deputy ought to know then that the usual way for co-operative societies to raise... to give a guarantee. I think myself that from the point of view of co-operation it would be much
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/21/
1 Aug 1934 - Mr. Belton Will the co-operative societies come into competition in the matter of rehandling.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 - Mr. Dillon The Minister in speaking said that one purpose suitable for the issue of debentures... was to pay off old debts. Does the Minister think that would be a suitable occasion to issue debentures and make a charge on uncalled share capital?
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1979-02-13/47/
13 Feb 1979 - requirements for societies, including agricultural co-operatives, to coincide with basic company... of agricultural co-operatives. This exercise will, however, involve a review of a substantial body... on the Second Reading of the Industrial and Provident Societies (Amendment) Bill, 1978, in which I..., a complete and full overhaul of the industrial and provident societies code which governs the operations
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - to give a licence to him to do so. We told him he must get rid of it either to the co-operative society... to sanction an individual getting debentures we would be, as it were, giving our blessing to that movement... or to some other society. We have always refused to give a licence to any proprietor to run any
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 - to the Debentures Bill. He rose to speak on the Second Reading. He said: "We are not going to oppose... the Bill. We merely offer criticism founded on suspicion." Both he and Deputy McMenamin, as well... as Deputy Dillon, went on to offer criticism of the Bill founded on suspicion. If their suspicions
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/21/
1 Aug 1934 - by the growers themselves through the co-operative societies. But I think we have not got sufficient capacity... in the rehandling stations which are run by co-operative societies at the moment. It would, therefore... in this country, to hand the business over to co-operative societies. It would be very much like... some proprietors in order to help out the co-operative rehandling stations for a year or two, say..., until one more additional co-operative rehandling station would get into the business. I would like
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - to the Agricultural Credit Corporation. On the Report Stage of the Bill in the Dáil the Minister moved..., by the then Minister for Agriculture, that if they lent the money he would take care that a Bill would... has a right to say to such a society: "You lend the money and I will bring in a Bill which will take... 12 to insert the words "one of the societies named in the Schedule to this Act, being... that the legal adviser to the Agricultural Credit Corporation considered that if these words were allowed
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-09-12/4/
12 Sep 1934 - Mr. Cosgrave If the Minister were a member of a co-operative society be might not think so.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/17/
1 Aug 1934 - not provided for the co-operative societies. In other words, to go on the principle of raising... Mr. Cosgrave I understood, when the Bill was being introduced, that it was an empowering Bill... rather than a retrospective Bill. Unless I am mistaken, this particular clause as drafted is one... that seeks to give to the Agricultural Credit Corporation certain powers in excess of anything they have... at the moment. I had no objection to this Bill as an empowering Bill, but to copper-fasten
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/21/
1 Aug 1934 - Mr. Belton Can the Minister tell us at what price the co-operative societies are rehandling it?
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/21/
1 Aug 1934 - Mr. Cosgrave Deputy Belton wants to know how much it costs the co-operative societies to rehandle.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/21/
1 Aug 1934 - they are also shareholders. If they rehandled for 2d. per lb. the other 3d. would go back to the tobacco. The co-operative societies have no profits. ... Mr. Corry Yes. The position is that while co-operatives are allowed 3d. per lb. for rehandling
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - Miss Browne I happen to be a member of the committee of an agricultural co-operative society. I... the management of these co-operative societies. A few people on the committee do everything... to express my appreciation of the criticism of the Bill which we have heard, especially from Senator...; the shareholders just pay their money when they are asked. The society with which I am connected was several... of these societies manage everything, and I think that the Minister was more in touch with these managers
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/25/
19 Jul 1934 - of is, as I said before, that only co-operative societies will be allowed to rehandle. If manufacturers... believe that the sale of seed should be altogether in the hands of co-operative societies. Last year... the Meath Co-operative Society was able to sell to growers as much seed as would sow an acre for 1... was a guaranteed seed. It could be tested within the co-operative societies. In the Meath Co-operative... of seed by co-operative societies only. Last year a good deal of mixture took place. The experts I
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1936-05-19/17/
19 May 1936 - Professor O'Sullivan In 1934 over 1931, a year when this measure was not in existence, and you had 32 co-operative societies then.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 - . We were pressing, in Committee, that, in every case where debentures were issued, a meeting... were. The argument was that the creation of debentures in the new form raised a totally new issue
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/21/
1 Aug 1934 - to 2d. when we get efficient. It is a question whether the co-operative societies will naturally capture all the business.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/21/
1 Aug 1934 - to the co-operative societies of growers, who have rehandling stations fixed up themselves... to co-operative societies of growers. I understand that in Cork our co-operative society can deal... steps to see that that full quota is reserved to the co-operative rehandling society in Cork. After... unless they are carefully watched. From what I can see, I think the co-operative society in Meath... of other co-operative societies which are prepared to go ahead as rehandling stations. If there are 1,000
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-06-19/11/
19 Jun 1934 - Mr. Lemass The case of the society known as the Templecrone Co-operative Society?
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 - up capital to pay liabilities", but you would issue debentures and put the debt on the long finger?
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - general in its application it should be confined to the societies that made those agreements with the Agricultural Credit Corporation. ... to the Agricultural Credit Corporation, but, all the same, I think we have nothing to do now... but to honour the pledge given by the Minister. I suggest to the Minister that instead of having the Bill
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/21/
1 Aug 1934 - guarantee that the co-operative societies will at least get their full quota. At all events... last year to start rehandling stations themselves and form their co-operative societies deserve... consideration and support from the Minister. I know that at one period the Munster Co-operative Society.... If there is any balance after the portion that can be dealt with by the co-operative societies, a licence... Mr. Corry There is another point. It is stated further down in the Bill that an official
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1928-07-06/12/
6 Jul 1928 - Mr. HOGAN Credit and co-operative societies. We are at one with the Agricultural Credit.... The Department of Agriculture, both in the interests of co-operation itself and of the Department, should... not be asked to take on the work of organising credit or co-operative societies. ... Corporation. It is not my business to organise credit societies—that is the business of the I.A.O.S
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 - Mr. McMenamin They are included in this Bill under ordinary societies?
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - the Committee to confine the Bill to certain societies specified. It would be a very bad Bill... with these societies, and that the necessary meetings were held and that the shareholders were consulted... if it worked so that it could be applied to any or to an unlimited number of societies. But if it is made... certain that it is to be applied only to a specified lot of societies I think the Minister has
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - Mr. Johnson Would the Minister clear this up: whether the societies mentioned in the proposed..., as to a great part of their capital, by the Agricultural Credit Corporation? The whole proceedings were... of these societies are to look for new money the shareholders were taken into consultation and the whole proceedings... were conducted when the society was formed on the understanding that that would be the method of financing.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/17/
1 Aug 1934 - at the time realised that it had not full powers to do that, but it was told that there was a Co-operative...—it was about 1929 this thing occurred—and the Minister for Agriculture in particular, were anxious... by the Agricultural Credit Corporation. I do not think that Deputy Cosgrave or any other Deputy would like to see... the Agricultural Credit Corporation done out of that money. The Agricultural Credit Corporation... Bill in preparation and that things would be made right for it under the Bill. If it went to court it would be difficult for it to prove its full title.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/21/
1 Aug 1934 - of tobacco is available to give enough work to the co-operative societies that are dealing... with rehandling, these societies will not be able to go ahead. Should there be a balance after the co...-operative societies have dealt with what they are capable of dealing with, these other fellows might take
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - will be simply restricting the avenues through which a co-operative creamery may borrow money. I have... as a fact that he gave financial accommodation to the co-operative creamery there which, since then, has... the Minister has discretion. Otherwise it may keep away from a society very valuable help at a critical time.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-06-19/11/
19 Jun 1934 - Mr. Lemass I said that the Templecrone Co-operative Society got a licence.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 - debentures in the case of loans made to these societies. This has been done by agreement with the societies.... Between whom were these agreements made? Were they made between these societies and the lending... they are made. If they are legal agreements which can be acted upon, what is the need for this Bill at all? I... concerned. We have legally got debentures issued. If this lending Corporation have got a legal... document that is an agreement entered into by the society and by the lending Corporation, and it gives
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - Sir John Keane I very much hope the House will insist upon limiting the Bill to those societies... advanced to societies, not by the Agricultural Credit Corporation, but by societies working... knows which are the societies intended. I gather from the Minister that these societies cover... the ground. I am puzzled in regard to some of the proposals in the Bill and that is the reason why I... societies there is an older capital created years ago. Is that earlier capital capital under
