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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-12-12/6/
12 Dec 1934 -
Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-05/10/
5 Jul 1934 -
Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—First Stage.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 -
Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Report Stage.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Committee Stage.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 -
Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Second Stage.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-12-12/6/
12 Dec 1934 -
"Dáil Eireann has agreed to the amendments made by Seanad Eireann to the Agricultural Co-operative Societies...(Debentures) Bill, 1934."
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Second Stage (Resumed).
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-08/10/
8 Aug 1934 -
Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Report and Final Stages.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
. - Agricultural Co-operative Societies Debentures Bill, 1934—Second Stage.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-09-12/4/
12 Sep 1934 -
Agricultural Co-Operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—From the Seanad. In Committee.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/17/
1 Aug 1934 -
. - Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Committee Stage.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-08-01/16/
1 Aug 1934 -
. - Agricultural Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Bill, 1934—Money Resolution.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
They are to be called agricultural co-operative societies....There is no such thing as an agricultural co-operative society at present, but once a society comes under...the Bill, and is looking for debentures, it becomes an agricultural co-operative society....A registrar will be appointed to look after agricultural co-operative societies....by co-operative societies when that Bill comes along.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 -
Curran The object of this Bill is simply to give authority to co-operative societies to issue debentures...thing that could happen co-operative societies is to issue debentures....I am sure that the principle of the Bill is to give capital to co-operative societies....responsibility for that rather than issue debentures; that is, if co-operative societies need capital..., before a co-operative society issues debentures, they certainly would be much more entitled to call
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 -
It will give to co-operative societies the power to create, by debentures, a security charging all their...of agricultural co-operative societies, and will be welcomed by bodies such as the Agricultural Credit...The object of Section 6 of the Bill is to give co-operative agricultural societies legal power to obtain...Credit Corporation to some co-operative agricultural societies on the understanding that the uncalled...in the Department of Agriculture dealing with the whole question of co-operation.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
It has to do with debentures for any co-operative society....The Agricultural Credit Corporation does not propose to take debentures from the societies with which...This clause, dealing with the issue of debentures by agricultural co-operative societies, has nothing...powers we give to co-operative societies to issue debentures and a separate Bill dealing with the Agricultural...statement of the position on the Second Stage with regard to the safeguards that ordinary members have in a co-operative
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 -
(6) No issue of debentures shall be made by an agricultural co-operative society under this section...unless and until a resolution approving the issue of such debentures shall have been passed by a special...meeting of the shareholders of such society convened for the purpose of passing such resolution.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 -
I see, according to Section 4, that an Agricultural Co-operative Society, which is authorised by its...is or is not authorised, or is not forbidden by the rules of the society, issue debentures to any authorised...Does the Minister think that is not going to have an effect on the credit of all agricultural co-operative...The position is that, at one fell swoop, an agricultural credit co-operative society may find its entire...I should like to ask the Minister what portion of an agricultural co-operative society's debts is due
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
the Minister for Agriculture....I would say that there is no reasonable objection to giving co-operative societies power to issue debentures...on their part to give co-operative societies outright the power of issuing debentures if necessary....This Bill could have saved in the past a lot of co-operative societies from winding up if there had been...It is simply a Bill to make arrangements between co-operative societies and their creditors, and to facilitate
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 -
If a co-operative society is in difficulties and the shares are not fully subscribed, to issue debentures...It would suggest to a banker that the people who originally joined in the co-operative society were either...I have no association with co-operative societies; I do not know the position and, therefore, I cannot...Those debentures or the money buying them can be collared by the Agricultural Credit Corporation or any...The law is that a co-operative society has nothing with which to raise the wind except a bill of sale
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
societies such as have been mentioned....There must be a great number of co-operative societies in the country that would be relieved by such...a Bill as this....I think the whole intention of the Bill would be destroyed if its operation was limited to a few co-operative...societies.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
First as regards debentures. These co-operative societies cannot give debentures....We are only dealing here with agricultural co-operative Societies....The Agricultural Co-operative Society is more or less correctly defined in sub-section (4) of Section...co-operative society under this Act....There is a very great need of a general co-operative agricultural Bill.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 -
The idea of issuing debentures on the uncalled capital of an agricultural co-operative society and calling...If the agricultural society is in a bad way there are different ways of coming to its aid, but not by...men and competent men— the obligation to pay off bad debts incurred by men in a local area by issuing debentures...on the uncalled capital of an agricultural society.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 -
Belton We are not going to oppose this Bill....The Minister, at the conclusion of his remarks, said the Bill is necessary to solve an immediate problem...He said that as the law now stands co-operative societies only raise money by a bill of sale and, of...The Minister has in the Bill the bodies to whom those debentures would be offered....Of course it is a case of offering debentures in all cases to Government institutions or departments.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1978-02-08/3/
8 Feb 1978 -
MacSharry The 1934 Act relates to the issue of debentures by agricultural co-operative societies....Under section 5 such societies require the prior consent of the Minister for Agriculture to the issue...of debentures....The intervention of the Minister for Agriculture is no longer considered necessary and before taking...debentures the lending agencies themselves investigate the affairs of the society offering a debenture
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
Aiken Deputy Belton said: "I wonder has the Agricultural Credit Corporation made advances to such societies...Now, first of all, the Bill aims at giving co-operative societies the right to guarantee advances by...Power is being taken to give co-operative societies the right to issue debentures and to give them that...From 1928 onwards a certain number of co-operative societies wanted cash, and they went to the Credit...The Agricultural Credit Corporation pointed out to the then Minister for Agriculture, Mr.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
The Minister will remember that on the Second Reading of this Bill I raised the question of whether an...individual should be eligible to obtain a debenture over co-operative societies....them correctly when I say that he said that such a practice would be against the whole principle of co-operation...It would be against the principle of co-operation to allow an individual to obtain control of a society...society think fit, surely they should have the right to grant that individual a debenture, especially
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-09-12/4/
12 Sep 1934 -
A new sub-section inserted before the sub-section as follows:— (2) An issue of debentures shall not...be made by an agricultural co-operative society under this section unless either the committee of such...society has power under the rules of such society to borrow money and the amount to be borrowed on the...security of such debentures is within such borrowing power or a resolution approving of the making of...such issue has been passed by a special meeting of the shareholders of such society convened expressly
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 -
McMenamin I also wish to query the finance of this Bill. I do not understand its meaning at all....Is it in order to liquidate bad debts incurred by somebody that it is sought to raise debentures on the...uncalled capital of an agricultural co-operative society?...Some of those societies are 30 and 40 years old and some of the names of the original subscribers are...That is the meaning of the Bill. That is what is behind this Bill.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-05/10/
5 Jul 1934 -
Leave granted to introduce a Bill entitled an Act to empower certain societies registered under the Industrial...and Provident Societies Act, 1893, to issue debentures, and to borrow money on the security of their...uncalled capital, and for other purposes connected with the matters aforesaid.— (Minister for Agriculture
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
is to give co-operative societies power to raise debentures without the embarrassment of such debentures...minds of creditors but surely it would be possible by a simple Act to remove that stigma and to give co-operative...In the case of co-operative societies, they are generally very well secured—secured on joint and several...I consulted a certain authority who is expert in the management of these co-operative societies, and...to create a debenture, I hope the Seanad will not pass the Bill.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-09-12/4/
12 Sep 1934 -
That amendment was inserted by the Seanad because they had a certain anxiety that the committee of a co-operative...society might issue debentures without having authority from the members of the society to borrow money...As the amendment stands—and, in fact, as I am advised—no committee could issue debentures unless they...borrow, then it would be all right; but if they have no powers to borrow, then they must go to the society
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1978-02-08/3/
8 Feb 1978 -
MacSharry I move amendment No. 7 : In page 35, in the third column, opposite the mention of the Agricultural...Co-operative Societies (Debentures) Act, 1934, to add "and ‘capital sum of'" after "and with such consent
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-18/31/
18 Jul 1934 -
, and for this reason that the committees of management of rural co-operative societies of the kind referred...If the manager of a co-operative society approaches the committee and tells them that the financial position...co-operative societies in the country a weapon whereby far more injury than benefits will be done to...Because when an agricultural society got their loan from the Agricultural Credit Corporation they made...In consideration of that, they took the loan, and as far as I can see, if an agricultural co-operative
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 -
Minister for Agriculture (Dr....To insert before the sub-section a new sub-section as follows:— (2) An issue of debentures shall not...be made by an agricultural co-operative society under this section unless either the committee of such...society has power under the rules of such society to borrow money and the amount to be borrowed on the...security of such debentures is within such borrowing power or a resolution approving of the making of
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
Dillon I desire to give my support to that part of the Bill which provides for the distribution of the...debentures of a society rather than having the responsibility put on a few men....Will the Minister say if a society can create debentures to pay off an old outstanding debt, and whether...Can it be applied retrospectively so that the lenders will be compelled to accept the newly created debentures...Would a society for the curing of bacon say, be included in the category of agricultural societies?
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
McMenamin Is this an agricultural society or a co-operative society?
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
Aiken Between £4,000 and £5,000—that is to co-operative societies with the understanding that when this...Bill becomes law they will give the Agricultural Credit Corporation the first charge on the uncalled
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
Ryan What I want to make clear is that the Committee in Plunkett House, who have been running the co-operative...movement for 25 years and who know the pitfalls and difficulties of co-operation and, perhaps, the weaknesses...I want to make it clear that it was more the wish of the co-operative movement itself than of the Department...amount of money was voted by the State to buy out the proprietary creameries and hand them over to co-operative...societies.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
With regard to these co-operative societies, I would like to know if the position is this: that two or...three recalcitrant members are in a position to be able to hold up the issue of debentures?...If we pass this Bill as it stands and as the Minister wants us to do, might not a majority of the shareholders...who were opposed to the issuing of these debentures feel very strongly against us for enabling the committee
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
co-operative societies, would lead to a tremendous lot of trouble, and it is a thing for which, if the...When this Bill is passed, the ruling body or committee, I suppose, of this co-operative society will...This Bill enables the society to issue debentures and to give an outside lender a right of action against...It enables them to come in now where the society had no right to issue debentures....It is a talk between some manager or representative of the society and some official of the Agricultural
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
Aiken They are agricultural co-operative societies....This Bill aims at giving legal sanction to what was an honourable understanding, and, I would say to...what was a legal binding contract in the ordinary way between the Agricultural Credit Corporation and...the co-operative societies who have got money from them....Deputy Dillon said that this Bill might involve the unfortunate shareholders in a liability they never
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
made by an agricultural co-operative society under this section unless and until a resolution approving...Sub-section (1) of the section reads:— (1) An agricultural co-operative society which is authorised...issue of debentures by the societies....shall be made by an agricultural co-operative society under this section unless and until a resolution...As far as I know, what the societies want is leave to issue debentures.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
Ryan The point I want to make is that in the drafting of the main Co-operative Bill we have been in...consultation with various advisers, if you like to call them that, of the co-operative movement....We have consulted many times with those who have been in charge of the co-operative movement for the...for the issuing of these debentures....Societies to take on this duty and he refused.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 -
Aiken That is an extract from an agreement between a co-operative society and the Agricultural Credit
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
Minister for Agriculture (Dr....Hogan, and I have carried out an identical policy with regard to creamery development as far as the co-operative...We have tried to make all the creameries in the country co-operative and every attempt by a proprietor...to get any foothold, or any hold whatever, on a co-operative society has been resisted as far as we...way out which an individual would have would be to get some co-operative society to take over the creamery
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
Notwithstanding anything contained in any other enactment, the Registrar of Industrial and Provident Societies...shall not register any alteration of the rules of an agricultural co-operative society which, in his...opinion, effects any change of or variation in the objects of such society, unless such alteration has
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2020-07-14/22/
14 Jul 2020 -
formation and general operation of industrial and provident societies, primarily co-operatives, in Ireland...The purpose of the Bill is to consolidate the existing industrial and provident societies legislation...and the report on the Private Members' Industrial and Provident Societies (Amendment) Bill 2018 prepared...The Bill will, among other issues, provide co-operative societies with a distinct legislative identity...reflecting the co-operatives' ethos, revise the provisions on debentures, introduce audit exemptions
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 -
point raised by the last Senator, under the definition section a bacon factory would come under this Bill...is nothing in the Bill to say that the lender of the old debt must accept the debentures....When a general meeting approves of the issuing of debentures, societies are thereby authorised to do...If that wording was not in this Bill perhaps four general meetings would be required....Every member of a society has a voice, and no debentures can be issued unless the majority of the members
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 -
The reason why the words "whether the issue of debentures is or is not authorised or is or is not forbidden..., no solicitor or barrister would have provided for power to the society to issue debentures....A society may or may not give power to its committee to borrow....society, irrespective of this Bill....debentures without consulting the members.
