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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - the co-operative movement for 25 years and who know the pitfalls and difficulties of co-operation... want to make it clear that it was more the wish of the co-operative movement itself than...-operative societies. If we were to allow an individual to take over the affairs of a creamery and so... and, perhaps, the weaknesses of the societies at times, have asked me to put somebody in charge... of this. As a matter of fact, they are keen that the Minister for Agriculture should do it because
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - and Provident Societies shall not register any alteration of the rules of an agricultural co-operative society... which, in his opinion, effects any change of or variation in the objects of such society, unless such alteration has been approved of in writing by the Minister.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - no substantial difference to the principle where the ostensible object of the Bill is to give co-operative... societies power to raise debentures without the embarrassment of such debentures becoming a bill of sale... be possible by a simple Act to remove that stigma and to give co-operative societies powers... that they are creditors, secured or unsecured. In the case of co-operative societies, they are generally... of these co-operative societies, and he sees no objection whatever to having an individual, same
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - :— No issue of debentures shall be made by an agricultural co-operative society under this section unless...-section as follows:— (6) No issue of debentures shall be made by an agricultural co-operative... with the issue of debentures by the societies. In the Bill as it originally came before the Dáil... whether or not the societies should issue these debentures, I think the Bill is a very dangerous... society under this section unless and until a resolution approving the issue of such debentures shall have
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - for power to the society to issue debentures. He would not have given these powers, because... of this Bill. On the other hand, if a society has given its committee power to borrow... Dr. Ryan No. I was wrong in that. The reason why the words "whether the issue of debentures... is or is not authorised or is or is not forbidden by the rules of such society" are used is that when... serious as they appear. A society may or may not give power to its committee to borrow. Some societies
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - . On the other hand, some of the societies which have asked for this Bill are in rather a precarious position...—the societies are quite solvent, if they get the chance to issue debentures. If they do not get... I say, then we can deal with this question of debentures solely. The position... is that the amendment proposed by Senator Jameson would only be necessary where a society has given power to its... that there are such cases. If this Bill goes through, as drafted, these committees will be able to issue
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - by shareholders in the case of a society whose rules forbid the issue of debentures by the committee... in with a Bill to deal with such a case, at any rate where the rules forbid a society from issuing... by the Senator. The section reads "whether the issue of debentures is or is not authorised... or is or is not forbidden by the rules of such society..." That means that there was agreement entered into between... the members or shareholders and the society concerned. If we pass this section as it stands, or even
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 - Mr. Aiken A co-operative society.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - done which, if it were being done to other businesses than agricultural co-operative societies, would... suppose, of this co-operative society will have power to do a thing which according to the articles.... This Bill enables the society to issue debentures and to give an outside lender a right of action..., or is or is not forbidden by the rules of the society, these debentures can be issued now when... and articles of association of the company or, as in this case, the society. This Bill goes
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - Dr. Ryan The point I want to make is that in the drafting of the main Co-operative Bill we have... been in consultation with various advisers, if you like to call them that, of the co-operative... movement. We have consulted many times with those who have been in charge of the co-operative movement... sanction or to refuse sanction to these societies for the issuing of these debentures.... They are anxious that somebody should do it. As I say, when I was bringing in this temporary Bill I asked
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - factory would come under this Bill. As regards the other point he raised, these debentures could... debt must accept the debentures. There would have to be agreement between the society and the lender... for the issuing of debentures. When a general meeting approves of the issuing of debentures, societies... to issue the debentures. Three meetings would have to be called to allow the society to get through... meeting. Every member of a society has a voice, and no debentures can be issued unless the majority of the members agree to do so.
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1934-07-19/24/
19 Jul 1934 - Mr. Aiken They are co-operative societies.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - debentures. I do not understand what that means. If a society is quite solvent it is quite solvent..., and the power to issue debentures has nothing to do with it. A society might protect itself. It might... powers and issue debentures. I do not think that is reasonable because a society will then have... Committee of the House. As Senators can only speak once on the next stage of the Bill, I think that those.... The Minister said, in effect, that a society might be quite solvent and yet need power to issue
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - any foothold, or any hold whatever, on a co-operative society has been resisted as far as we could do... an individual would have would be to get some co-operative society to take over the creamery, so... policy with regard to creamery development as far as the co-operative movement is concerned. We have... tried to make all the creameries in the country co-operative and every attempt by a proprietor to get... the reply that no licence will be given except to a co-operative body, and the only way out which
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Debate: Dáil Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/1979-05-03/13/
3 May 1979 - overhaul of the industrial and provident societies code which governs the operations of agricultural co... Organisation Society whose document "Framework for Co-operative Development", dated January 1979, also... urges, among other things, the need for new legislation to govern the operations of agricultural co... the develop ment of, agricultural co-operatives. As the Deputy is aware, the Industrial... agricultural co-operatives, to coincide with basic company law requirements with a view to ensuring
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-29/4/
29 Aug 1934 - has become practically an issue under this Bill. Hitherto such societies were unable to raise... that it would be better to allow the society to issue debentures to an individual than to break up... and that he may never contemplate sanctioning an individual as a debenture holder, he may—I do not care... debentures at all. And now that they are in a position to issue debentures, the case might... be contemplated in which an individual lender might say to the society: "If you do so I will put the society
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - . If that is to be the expectation, then agricultural co-operative societies are going to be segregated... these certificates. We all think that we understand what an agricultural co-operative society... is, but in future we shall not understand what an agricultural co-operative society is unless we have some... of the majority. If the proposed Co-operative Bill is going to set up a special registrar whose functions... into a schedule to the Bill these particular societies, so that inquiry could be made
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-08-22/11/
22 Aug 1934 - these societies the right of issuing debentures which might be very useful. If this is only a temporary... Bill, why not leave it as it is for the present, giving them the power to issue debentures... Mr. Jameson Would it not be better to leave it out for the present until the final Bill... if they find it necessary, and then, when you get the proper officials appointed under your final Bill, let... that go in? This is only a temporary measure and it seems a pity in the meantime to take away the right from the societies.
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 - Mr. Jameson I do not quite see Senator Sir John Keane's point. If a committee of a society has... now the right to issue debentures without calling their shareholders together, I do not think... that this Bill is intended to interfere with that. That is the view I took. I only came into the matter... where the Bill introduced something new. I cannot see where the two amendments disagree. I did
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Debate: Seanad Éireann
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1934-09-05/3/
5 Sep 1934 - , if they wish to raise debentures in the future under this Bill, they should go to the shareholders... was, I think, to secure that, whatever borrowing powers the societies may have hitherto possessed
