COMMITTEE OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTS díospóireacht -
Thursday, 28 Feb 2013

Business of Committee

Chairman

Are the minutes of the meeting of 21 February 2013 agreed? Agreed. Deputy Harris raised the issue of the high levels of cash deposits held by public bodies in the Department of Finance. The Department has been asked for a note. We will await receipt of the note before taking the next step.

I refer to correspondence since our meeting on Thursday, 21 February 2013.

No. 3B.1 is correspondence, dated 15 February 2013, from Mr. Seán Ó Foghlú, Secretary General of the Department of Education and Skills, forwarding a note regarding financial oversight of school funds, to be noted and a copy forwarded to Mr. Jim O'Brien, Ballyjamesduff, County Cavan, the original complainant.

No. 3B.2 is correspondence, dated 15 February 2013, from Ms Nora Beattie, County Mayo, regarding the appointment of school secretaries, to be noted and a copy forwarded to the Department of Education and Skills for a note on the matter. No. 3B.3 is correspondence, dated 17 February 2013, from Mr. Don Curry, re forwarding a letter from Ms Catherine Day, Director General, EU Commission, to be noted. This correspondence is connected to an issue that was raised by the last Committee of Public Accounts with the Comptroller and Auditor General and with the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation relating to the case of Frank Mulcahy, formerly of ISME. The Department has told us that an investigation by the Ombudsman and the Office of the Information Commissioner had both ruled that the Department had acted appropriately in regard to issues raised by Mr. Mulcahy. We will pass on this latest correspondence and I will ask the clerk to liaise directly with the Department on the issue as I cannot see a role for the Committee of Public Accounts in the resolution of the matter.

Clerk to the Committee

Yes, in due course.

Chairman

No. 3B.4 is correspondence dated 20 February 2013, from Chief Superintendent Orla McPartlin, personal assistant to the Commissioner of An Garda Síochána, re providing information previously requested regarding the Garda fleet, to be noted. No. 3B.5 is correspondence, received on 21 February 2013, from Mr. Conor Ryan, Irish Examiner, re publication of financial statements and accounts on the Oireachtas website, to be noted. This is a reasonable suggestion and I will ask the clerk to make the necessary arrangements with the Library and Research Service to provide the type of service suggested by Mr. Conor Ryan.

Clerk to the Committee

I will do that.

Chairman

Is there a timeframe for that?

Clerk to the Committee

That is what I will have to find out but I will deal with the issue today.

Chairman

As soon as it going to be published perhaps the clerk would inform us.

Clerk to the Committee

I will.

Chairman

No. 36.B is correspondence, dated 22 February 2013, from Mr. Seán Ó Foghlú, Secretary General, Department of Education and Skills, providing an update regarding WIT, to be noted. The committee has requested a copy of the report being undertaken by Dermot Quigley before it resumes consideration of the WIT issue.

Deputy John Deasy

What is the timeline?

Chairman

Mr. Quigley is undertaking the report and he needs to have it back by the end of March.

Deputy John Deasy

The end of March.

Chairman

Whether it comes directly to us or is to be considered by the Minister-----

Clerk to the Committee

It has to be considered by the Minister.

Chairman

-----and then comes to us, in that timeline. I presume we will get it sometime in April and then we can resume our consideration of the issues.

No. 3B.7 is correspondence, dated 26 February 2013, from Mr. Gerry Mullins, chief executive, Coach Tourism and Transport Council of Ireland, regarding the school transport scheme, to be noted. This issue is relevant to today's meeting and can be raised by members if they wish.

No. 3B.8 is correspondence, dated 20 February 2013, from Deputy Joanna Tuffy, chairperson of the Joint Committee on Education and Social Protection, regarding correspondence forwarded by the committee relating to the education of children with autism, to be noted and a copy forwarded to Mr. O'Mahony. This correspondence is to be considered together with further correspondence received from Mr. Daniel O'Mahony. The operation of the special education of children, including children with autism, is a policy matter for the Minister and is outside the remit of the Committee of Public Accounts. It is a matter for the Comptroller and Auditor General to raise in his reports to the committee any issues that arise from the implementation of this policy and while Mr. O'Mahony appears to be at odds with the Department, it is an issue that the Committee of Public Accounts cannot get involved in.

Clerk to the committee Not at the moment.

Chairman

Will there be further correspondence coming back on this issue?

Clerk to the Committee

Not until we-----

Chairman

No. 3B.9 is correspondence, dated 26 February 2013, from Mr. Seán Ó Foghlú, Secretary General, Department of Education and Skills, re correspondence forwarded by the committee regarding University College Cork, to be noted. No. 3B.10 is correspondence, dated 27 February 2013, from Mr. Seán Ó Foghlú, Secretary General, Department of Education and Skills, re oversight of VEC expenditure, to be noted. Due to the fact that we have had a number of pieces of correspondence regarding oversight of VECs, should we publish that piece of correspondence?

Clerk to the Committee

Yes.

Chairman

It will be of interest to the parties who will want to see that. It will be noted and published.

No. 3C is correspondence re documents relating to today's committee meeting. No. 3C.1 is correspondence, dated 22 February 2013, from Mr. Seán Ó Foghlú, Secretary General of the Department of Education and Skills, re briefing paper on matters to be considered at this meeting, to be noted and published. No. 3C.2 is correspondence, dated 26 February 2013, from Mr. Seán Ó Foghlú, Secretary General of the Department of Education and Skills, re correspondence received 27 February 2013, from the Department of Education and Skills in Cork, to be noted and published. No. 4 is reports, statements. None has been received to date. No. 5 is our work programme which is on the screen.

Next week, officials from the Department of Finance will appear before the committee. We had agreed at our private meeting on Wednesday, 13 February, that a committee report would be drafted to cover the entire bank stabilisation process from 2007 onwards, as outlined in each of the reports of the Comptroller and Auditor General for the accounts of the years since 2008. Much of the banks stabilisation process will have come full circle with the ending of the guarantee which was announced this week and the recent decision on the liquidation of IBRC and the sale of Irish Life. Next week's meeting with the Accounting Officer of the Department of Finance will give the committee an opportunity to examine these latest developments and bank stabilisation. Following on from that it is important that we capture and report to the Dáil on the work of the Committee of Public Accounts on this issue. In that regard we also have in our possession the papers and records of the Department of Finance for the period leading up to the decision to introduce the bank guarantee in 2008. Our report will also be of assistance to any forthcoming inquiry that may be put in place into the financial collapse into the banking issue. The clerk and the secretariat will continue their work on the matter which will use all the documentation which was forwarded to Members, that is, the lever arch folder-----

Clerk to the Committee

Yes.

Chairman

-----outlining the work of the last committee, bringing it up to date in terms of the stabilisation issue relative to the Comptroller and Auditor General's report. The report will take into account current matters regarding the ending of the guarantee and so on. We will agree the appointment of a rapporteur who will review the transcripts of evidence and the papers and records in our possession and bring forward a draft report for consideration by the committee. We can do that formally next week. Is that agreed? Agreed.

No. 6 is any other business. Does any Member want to raise any matters? Can we agree the agenda for Thursday, 7 March, at 10 a.m.? We will meet the Department of Finance and the agenda for the meeting will consist of the 2011 annual report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts: Vote 6: Office of the Minister for Finance; Chapter 1: Financial Outturn for 2011; Chapter 2: Government Debt; Chapter 3: Banking and Insurance Measures; and Chapter 5: EU Financial Transactions. Is that agreed? Agreed.