asked who were the individual persons who saw the correspondence sent by their political correspondents abroad.
TUARASGBHÁIL Ó'N AIRE UM GHNÓTHAÍ COIGCRÍCHE - Discussion of Report
(4) replied that he saw most of it except what was of a routine nature. It went primarily through Mr. Brennan, the Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs, to the staff in charge.
4. Eamon de Valera.
(Cork) in moving the adoption of the report congratulated the Minister in charge on the excellence of the report. He wished to draw attention to two matters, one on the advisability of a big propaganda in England by means of placards showing the atrocities committed here by English troops and the enormous expenditure the campaign was costing England. In the second matter he suggested a more active campaign against enemy property in America which he believed would expedite their liberation.
(East Cork) in seconding the adoption of the report stated he altogether disagreed with Mr. Walsh's views of a more active campaign in America. Such action would, in his opinion, alienate all American sympathy from them. He maintained they should get all the sympathy possible from foreign countries.
in supporting the motion asked if there was any further information about the Irish Race Conference than what was given in the report.
asked who was to be in charge of Irish interests in America during Mr. Boland's absence. He would like to get an assurance that the person in charge would prevent any impression getting abroad that they were animated with hostility against America. Any action that would alienate American sympathy would be a great mistake.
said he too was in disagreement with the views expressed by Deputy Walsh. America was England's biggest trading customer and he suggested our friends in America and all other anti-English sections should be educated up to an economic boycott of England. That would be a weapon of immense value to them.
enquired as to who had the selection of the foreign envoys of the Republic. He thought in a matter of that kind there should be some Committee of Appointments to examine the records and credentials and qualifications of candidates for important posts.
pointed out that from recent correspondence he had seen from Germany the impression was growing there that after all England was her friend and that she would get more justice from England than from any other country. He suggested that they should support, if possible, the giving of information to Germany. English propaganda and power in Germany was very strong. He gave an instance of how an article on the Irish situation written in German at the request of the editor of a very important magazine in Germany would not be published when received by the editor for fear of offending England. He also related that quite recently Professor O'Rahilly of Cork University was asked to give some corrections of a German encyclopedia. He handed the offer to him (Professor Stockley) and he found that the encyclopedia gave a most distorted description of affairs in Ireland, picturing Sinn Féiners as a wild and rough lot whom no decent neighbouring people could put up with. Even the other day, he said, friends of his who were travelling in Germany found that the people there had no idea of the real true facts in regard to Ireland.
strongly disagreed with Deputy Walsh's suggestions regarding action in America. She said American sympathy had meant more than meetings and money. It had resulted in the defeat of the League of Nations. If that League were carried through their position would have been a bad one.
suggested with regard to Germany that writers be encouraged to come here and write up Ireland for the information of their own country. Their favourable position in France was due to two sources, Irishmen who went to France and French writers who came to Ireland.
asked had the President anything to add to Mr. H. Boland's report that would make it clear to them how they stood with regard to the American Government. If they knew exactly what were the possibilities of recognition of the Irish Republic in America it would have great bearing on the decision they would have to make on the peace question.
remarked that there was no reference in the report to Egypt or India. Did the Ministry discuss that question?
declared he had not a good word to say for the report. It was vague and misleading. It might have been justifiable as a propagandist report— that was a matter for the House, but he considered the members should have a little inside knowledge of the actual facts. Their great difficulty abroad was that their communication was as bad as bad could be. If an urgent communication was sent from a continental city to Dublin, the methods of transmission were so slow that they could not be certain of an answer within any specified time. It sometimes took from one to two months. That was a matter in which improvement was very urgent. England opposed their propaganda everywhere abroad with all her power. She had collared all the important Press agencies which were run in conjunction with Jews and Freemasons from London. In Norway she threatened economic reprisals if the Government there did not shut up the writer of a review who had published articles in favour of Sinn Féin. In Spain during the inquest on the late Lord Mayor MacCurtain the British Embassy issued an official statement to the press saying this man was murdered by the extremists of his own party who had also sworn to murder Lloyd George and the prominent members of the British Cabinet. In Italy also word was given officially to the Press that they were not to speak of Ireland. He said he mentioned these matters to show the Members that the state of affairs abroad was not as rosy as pictured by the report.
He submitted very strongly that part of any terms they would come to with England should be that Ireland had separate representation abroad.
He alluded to his expulsion from France and protested against the sending of a friendly message by the President to France recently. He considered the French Government should first atone for the insult of having compelled their envoy to leave the country.
They could expect no help from France because on the one hand she was obsessed with the fear of Germany coming to attack her again in which case England, she thought, was the only country she could look to for assistance and on the other hand the country was in an acute stage of bankruptcy.
The position of their envoys abroad was a very difficult one as they alleged to represent a government which was not recognised by foreigners. Most of the people who mattered were afraid to be seen with them. There was also another objection; diplomatic work of that kind cost a lot of money and it was questionable if they got their money's worth. He thought it essential in future to concentrate on having press representatives rather than diplomatic envoys abroad who would supply the press and foreign writers with matter. Press work was the work that told.
Another matter he would like to mention, he said, in the case of certain Latin countries a woman who is serious and talks business is regarded as a disagreeable woman; therefore if a woman is head of affairs in any of these countries they could not get the best results for expenditure.
Everyone who had been abroad would tell them that what won publicity and sympathy abroad was the enormous interest created by the military events here at home. The deeds of daring done here had enormous effect on the Continent. People had said to him abroad that those at home were fighting a hopeless cause but they admired them, and later on when he met the same people their whole attitude was changed when they saw the things that were done here, and that was why in countries sympathetic to them it was recognised that the Irish Republic was on top.
said he had assumed the report was correct as to the position abroad. He anticipated that his proposal re America would be turned down as it was a bit wide. He was satisfied that they were not getting the full value of the force of their 20 millions of kith and kin in America.
pointed out that it was all a myth talking about 20 millions of their people in America. There never was more than half a million in the Irish movement in America.
said he was afraid many of the Teachtaí, like Deputy J.J. Walsh, were under a grave illusion regarding America. When considering this question they had to take into account the fact that they would only get from America value for what they were prepared to put into it themselves. They could not expect the Irish in America to be better than the Irish at home. It was only during the last eighteen months that they were getting in America the repercussion of the events of Easter Week. When they spoke of the Irish in America they had to consider two classes: (1) those who were American citizens and (2) those who were not. These latter were aliens and did not count a single iota except so far as they may be representative of this country. The first class were powerful only as American citizens and Deputy J.J. Walsh's suggestions were all sheer nonsense. It was nice to talk of 20 million Irish but it was not true. There might be 20 million descendants of Irish blood but they were Irish of such a kind that they did not recognise it themselves. As far as America was concerned, they had an Irish movement there to-day as the direct result of events in Ireland. They had in America to-day an Irish movement for the first time for a generation and as long as the fight was kept up at home so long would they get support from the U.S.A. They could not expect more from America than from their own people at home.
stated that as Deputy Gavan Duffy had given the Dáil such an excellent review of the position on the Continent he himself need not say very much.
It was his opinion that their position abroad to-day was vastly superior to what it was two and a half years ago when the first representative went out. Then in France everyone was hostile to Ireland. Now things had changed and everyone was interested in Ireland and in all the papers they had special correspondents for Irish news. The whole basis of the movement was the work at home. It gave them something to talk and write about. However, it was not likely that France of her own volition would recognise the Irish Republic. That was absolutely out of the question. She was deep in debt to England and other countries and was seized with the fear that Germany would come back.
With regard to the other States in Europe, England was master of the political situation and all other countries had to act on her beck and call. Germany's policy was to divide France and England, and she was succeeding. He maintained in a recent report, that if America could be induced to say that she would, if other countries could be got to join her, give a kind of conditional consent to recognition of the Irish Republic, that perhaps France and Italy would recognise the Irish Republic if America took the lead. But they would not stand out on their own against England and recognise it. Italy was almost in a similar position to France and the people were sympathetic to Ireland.
All the smaller countries were with Ireland; they could not help financially, but their sympathy was very valuable. Yesterday Mr. Childers gave them a resumé of a number of foreign and continental papers and they saw the number which were hostile was very small. He believed none were hostile save one directly subsidised by the British government. The day before he left Paris the Chairman of the Turkish Foreign Affairs Commission called to see him and asked him to convey to President de Valera and the members of the new Dáil the cordial felicitations of his Parliament and he told him he was directed to convey this message to him. The representative of Poland also called and asked that he would convey a similar message here to this Parliament. From Egypt also the President had a telegram the other day. In India they had also the same story. They were copying Irish methods and utilising Irish propaganda for inspiring their own men.
The men who had been sent abroad had succeeded in changing the whole views of the continent of Europe on Ireland. Now there was not a country nor province nor people anywhere that were not deeply interested in Ireland. One instance of that was the extraordinary interest displayed in the noble sacrifice made by the late Lord Mayor MacSwiney. The French papers, even the most hostile of them, were full of it from day to day, and after his death the Irish Office was inundated with callers and pressmen. All were struck to the foundations of their hearts by the magnificence of the sacrifice. He knew, he said, the expense of all this work was great and he did not know whether it was all justified or not, but looking back on what had been accomplished he thought every penny they had spent had turned out well.
asked why Deputy S.T. Ó Ceallaigh thought the ruling classes in America were more likely to be more friendly in [recte to] Ireland than say French or other European governments.
said he believed the American government to-day was not friendly to Ireland. But there was a powerful movement in favour of Ireland which might yet be able to force the government there to do by fear what it would not do by choice.
said as he had been in close touch with this department he would answer the questions. With respect to the complaint that the report was propagandist, he said the report was based on their representatives' reports from abroad. If there was anything misleading in it, it was their own fault. The actual fact was that no nation would recognise the Irish Republic until she wanted to go [to] war with England. The report was not meant to deceive anyone.
With regard to the appointment of envoys abroad they were, he said, nominated by the Minister in charge and ratified by the Cabinet.
The practice about the staffs engaged was that they were chosen by the heads of the departments. If they wanted to set up a Civil Service Commission to regulate employment of staffs it would be for the House to do.
They recognised their communications were very faulty but to overcome that properly would cost such an amount of money that they would have to curtail their essential work. They contemplated an actual service of couriers but the outlay would be too heavy. They were going to meet the foreign representatives tomorrow and see what their exact needs are and how they could meet them. They had done everything they could to secure P.... O'B....¹ services but they had not succeeded so far.
1. The shorthand notes do not give the full name.
With regard to the world conference, the lady who organised Canada, Australia, and New Zealand was directed to come to Paris and set up an office there that would serve as a centre from which they could work this conference. In reference to America, he was glad to see the idea of the 20 millions hit on the head. He would like them to remember that the people of German blood in America went out as American citizens to fight against Germany and tomorrow if there was a war against Ireland those citizens of Irish blood would go out to fight against Ireland. When he went to America, the Friends of Irish Freedom had only a membership of 20,000. At present the new organisation had, they were told, half a million. The Irish were very influential in Irish centres like Boston in local or municipal politics but they had no influence in national politics. He believed if the most influential Catholic of Irish blood went forward for the Presidency in America he would not have the slightest chance of being chosen. If tomorrow any of the Deputies here went to America, became a citizen of it and had the same love for the old country as they had now and it so happened was elected President, he believed that man would refuse to recognise the Irish Republic. He himself would refuse to recognise it, if it could be imagined that he was elected President of the United States, because the American people would not back him and would turn him down at once if he dared to do it. Nations were more selfish than individuals and they could not expect more from another nation than they would do themselves. The League of Nations question enabled Ireland to be brought into international politics as the matter happened to be an American one as well as an Irish issue, and they got in. The Friends of Irish Freedom at the time told him if the League of Nations would mean the freedom of Ireland they would not have gone into it. I told them they had every right to talk as Americans but not to dictate to Ireland what she should do when it was an Irish matter. My attitude simply was that Ireland's foreign policy was to be directed by those at home and that if help was to be given to Ireland it was to be help that would be sanctioned here. He was trying to make it impossible for individuals in America to use the name of Ireland for any purpose but the one Ireland wanted. He stood for that principle and any differences he had with the people there were on that basis.
As far as France was concerned they had been told the position there. They could only get sympathy from her; but they had to use that sympathy and when people were sympathetic it was a good time to state your case. One of the chief functions of representatives of a foreign government is diplomacy, but as their government was not recognised their representatives' functions were to represent Ireland to those foreign people and hence they were only a part of the Publicity Department.
It was said they should have press representatives abroad. If Ireland had a paper like "The Times" they could afford to get that paper to send correspondents abroad. When the American representatives of the big papers were over in foreign countries they were acting as secret agents for their government. But the unfortunate thing here was that Ireland had no large papers or group of papers which could afford to send their foreign representatives abroad.
He pointed out that they had no control of the wires or cables. They had no resources that way. It was one of the features of the problems they had to solve and one of the chief difficulties under which they had to fight.
As far as getting recognition was concerned, they might put it out of their heads. When a nation wants to fight Britain she will be very glad to make Ireland's claim a moral issue but that was a very vague hope. He might say with regard to the message he sent to the President of France that they would do very little work in France if they stood by waiting for apologies.
said he was in charge of Foreign Affairs Department at the time of Deputy Gavan Duffy's expulsion from France. At the time there were hopes of saving poor Terence MacSwiney's life by working up public opinion all over the world. Deputy Duffy as Irish Envoy in Paris addressed a letter of protest to the French President and published it. He considered Deputy Duffy was acting with the best intentions but he acted on a great error of judgment. No representative should have sent such a letter as he made it incumbent on the French President to recognise the Republic or expel the envoy. The fault was with Mr. Gavan Duffy. It was their envoy made the mistake and not the French government.
said the suggested action in America would be wholly impossible and wrong. It would put public opinion against them. They should remember that those who were really in favour of Ireland would not amount to more than four or five millions. They could not judge the feeling of America from the crowd of 20,000 who might attend a special meeting in New York. What was that number in seven millions? If a person went into one of the big picture houses there and saw something of Irish interest on the screen he would find people in one part of the house who would clap and others elsewhere who would hiss.
The boycott of English goods was an example of how little could be done. It was only by appealing to the Irish as Irishmen and the anti-English section as Americans to help American industry to oust British manufactures that it could be worked up.
In America they could afford to do things they could not afford to do in other countries simply because there was a certain amount of sympathy on which they could count; but there were limits and narrow limits on which they could operate.
desired to say that was the first occasion on which any expression of opinion had come from the Cabinet as to the propriety or impropriety of his action.
said he did in America exactly what Deputy Gavan Duffy did in France and was not driven out.
replied that they could do things in American they could not do in other countries. It was not necessary to refer to Deputy Duffy's action, nor would he refer to it now only the matter was brought up here. The thing was done and finished with. The Cabinet did not think it wise in the conduct of their foreign affairs to harp on the one thing they might regard as not tactful when all other things were done splendidly.
Adoption of the Report put and agreed.