A Chinn Chomhairle, I regret more than I can express the fact that I cannot consistently and sincerely congratulate the President on his election. I regret it, as I say, more than I can express. The difficulties which he has in his office are undoubtedly very, very great. One who has had the burden of those duties on his shoulders understands what they are likely to be now, perhaps, better than anybody else; and I think I will be expressing the views of everyone here, not merely those on the majority side, but we here who stand definitely for the Republic, when I say that, appreciating to the full his difficulties in acting as President of the Republic of Ireland, as head of the established State, we shall not only not stand in his way in carrying out the duties of that office, but we shall do everything that is possible for us to secure to the full for the Irish people enjoyment of the liberty which is their right as citizens of the Irish Republic (hear, hear). That must not, of course, be interpreted in any way as meaning that we are not to continue our own policy—that we are not to criticise and attack his policy in any respect in which it may appear to us to be contrary to the interests of the Irish people and the established government, which is the Republic. Whenever he functions, or will function in his other capacity as head of another government, we cannot recognise that government at all. We will have to insist and continue insisting on our attitude that that government is not the legitimate government of this country until the Irish people have disestablished the Republic, and we shall do everything in our power to see they do not disestablish it. I have also said whenever there is a question between the President of the Republic as head of this State, and any outside power that he can count on us to the full; that he can count on our support as definitely as if there had never been a division between us. I would also feel contemptible in my own eyes if I did not say this: I have found fault, as I felt it my duty, with the actions of the President when he was Minister of Foreign Affairs; but there is not one in this whole Assembly, not even those on his side, who realise how terrible was the task imposed upon him. And I want to tell him this: that if in any way it were consistent with Irish national principles to support the action he was taking, I would be supporting him; and that I am in opposition now simply because I felt that the action that is proposed is neither good for the Irish people, nor is it consistent with Irish national aspirations. I know he will believe me when I tell him I will, as a single Irish citizen, give to him in his office all the respect which I would expect to receive when in that office, from any citizens, and which I received from the Minister of Foreign Affairs himself. It is a good thing there should be these changes, so that we who have been in power may recognise, individually, that it is power which does not come from ourselves, but is given to us; and when we are in office we are not acting as individual autocrats, but as functionaries for the people. I have said changes are good things, and I am glad to be able, as a private individual, to act my part as a private Irish citizen; and the President of the Republic will receive from me, personally, and I hope from every Irish citizen, while he is acting in that capacity, the full respect which his office entitles him to. It will be my duty to do everything in my power to see this established Republic is not disestablished. On this side of the House, even amongst those who most bitterly oppose his policy, there is a sympathetic feeling, and the magnitude of the task imposed upon him is realised. I regret it is not possible for me consistently to be able to congratulate him on the office which he is taking up in the present circumstances. Now, I would like if he would give us some outline of the policy he intends to pursue in maintaining the existing Republic.
PRESIDENT'S STATEMENT OF POLICY
I desire to thank President de Valera for his words. I call him President still; because if he had not resigned yesterday I would never have asked him to resign. He has spoken of laying down a burden. If there was anything in my life I would like, it would be to lay down the burden and get back into private life. It is no feeling of ambition, or anything like that, that is going to make me act as I am. I know the responsibilities I am taking on. I feel those responsibilities, and if I did not feel it a duty to my country —an absolute duty owing to the part I took—I would certainly wish to get away into some kind of private or domestic life. I am doing what I am doing because I believe it is my absolute duty to my country. Men may differ from me here; men may hold other views. I can only follow my own conscience and my own judgment, and I am doing that. As to the policy I am going to pursue, I have stated it already here to-day. If President de Valera had not resigned yesterday I would never have suggested he should resign. I would have suggested he would have remained on. But once he resigned and carried us with him, there was nothing else for us to do but adopt one course. We were not prepared to abandon the Treaty. Now, as regards President de Valera, he is an individual whom I esteem and love, although, in the interests of the nation, I had to oppose him. As I said from the very beginning, the Dáil is going to remain in existence— the Republic of Ireland is going to remain in existence —until the Free State is prepared to have an election. I do not want any obstruction. At all events that is all I ask. We are going to have the heaviest task that was ever laid on the shoulders of Irishmen, thrown on our shoulders. All we ask is that we will not be obstructed until we can go to the Irish people and give them the Free State, and let them decide. That is the only policy I have. If the Irish people turn down the Free State for the Republic, I will follow in the ranks. I will back the Free State. All I ask of Ireland and of my colleagues against me is not to throw obstacles in our way. Within the next three months we are going to have the heaviest task ever thrown on the shoulders of Irishmen. So at least give us a fair trial. That is the policy (applause).
A Chinn Chomhairle——
What is before the House, exactly?
THE SPEAKER:
There is no motion before the House at present.
What about the Orders of the Day?
I am told I made some remark that might have another bearing to what I intended to say. It was to the effect that if the Irish people turned down the Free State, I would back the Free State. What I meant to say was that if the Irish people at a free election, without any force used on either side, say: "No! we want to have the Republic," I will follow in the ranks of the Irish people. I want that to be quite clear. I am going to back the Free State, to propose it and to advocate it; but I agree with President de Valera, nobody can disestablish the Dáil except the Irish people at an election. At that election I will stand for the Free State. If the Irish people are against me I will follow behind them as a private in the ranks. If I said anything to the contrary, I wish to correct it.
I wish to raise a few points in connection with the statement made by the President.
I must protest. There is nothing before the House. Deputy Childers is out of order.
The President has made a very general statement of policy. All I wish to do is to ask him to be more explicit in a few particulars which are of great importance. I do not raise the points in the least obstructive sense, or with any obstructive motives. It is simply in order that we may know more exactly where we stand. Mr. Griffith as President has taken over an important office, to my view in a double capacity—one as Chief Executive Officer of Dáil Eireann, and the other, which he will soon presumably hold, is Chief of the Provisional Government. It is simply a few points arising out of that curious and ambiguous situation which I wish to raise. I would have raised them on the previous motion but the closure was moved and I was unable to speak. My friend, Mr. Gavan Duffy, said all the questions put to Mr. Griffith had been satisfactorily answered, and that we can just go ahead under Mr. Griffith in his dual capacity. I do not think that is so, and further explanation is needed. One of the questions asked him he certainly did not answer at all. That question was: "Will the Provisional Government function under the statutory powers conferred by the Partition Act?" I think I am right in saying he made no answer to that question at all. Has Dáil Eireann——
I rise to a point of order. Yesterday you allowed a motion to be debated for two-and-a-half hours, and then ruled it out of order. Let us know where we are. What is before the House? If this debate is going to go on for two or three hours we may then be told it is not in order, and there is nothing before the House.
THE SPEAKER:
On a strict point of order there is no motion before us.
I move that we proceed with the next business.
I have pleasure in seconding that motion.
But this is a——
Before this proceeds any further, I want to say that President de Valera made a statement—a generous statement—and I replied. Now (striking the table) I will not reply to any Englishman in this Dáil (applause).
It is nearly time we had that.
It is about time.
My nationality is a matter for myself and for the constituents that sent me here.
Your constituents did not know what your nationality was.
They have known me from my boyhood days —since I was about half a dozen years of age.
I will not reply to any damned Englishman in this Assembly.
Are all these proceedings in order?
THE SPEAKER:
The whole proceedings at present are out of order.
It has been proposed and seconded that the next business in the Orders of the Day be proceeded with.
THE SPEAKER:
I have ruled——
I hardly think you will say this is out of order (cries of "Chair! Chair!"). It is hardly out of order to say something to an interjection like that made by the President. I am not going to defend my nationality, but I would be delighted to show the President privately that I am not, in the true sense of the word, an Englishman, as he knows. He banged the table. If he had banged the table before Lloyd George in the way he banged it here, things might have been different (cries of "Order!" and applause).
I banged the table before your countryman, Mr. Lloyd George (applause).
And Griffith is a Welsh name.
Are we going to have this all the evening?
THE SPEAKER:
I have ruled this is out of order.
In the interests of decency and order you should rule Deputy Childers out of order. It is not making for harmony or proper debate to allow him to continue. Admittedly, it is out of order.
THE SPEAKER:
Leave it to me. Deputy Childers, I have ruled the continuation of this discussion is out of order.
You rule me out of order?
THE SPEAKER:
Yes.
May I ask are we permitted to ask questions?
If the President of this House makes a statement of policy in this House, is it in order to ask him some questions arising out of that statement?
Under Standing Order number six, twenty-four hours' notice of questions to Ministers shall be given by Deputies, in writing.
Let us get on with the next business. What is it?
THE SPEAKER:
We will take up the next business. It is a motion in the name of President de Valera—we must call him Deputy de Valera now——
I sent up a question yesterday. What is the proper time to bring it up at?
Standing Order 4 (d) deals with the matter.
THE SPEAKER:
When you brought it up before, I told you I believed it was out of order. I also told you it was out of order in substance, as being an alternative in opposition to the motion for the ratification of the Treaty.
I do not intend to pursue this (hear, hear). There is no good purpose, as far as I can see, to be gained at this stage in pursuing this motion. It will stand, and the criticisms that have been levelled at it will be proved to be unjust. It is the natural sequel to the correspondence we had with the British Prime Minister. It is the natural conclusion to that correspondence. If we did not have that to show that we had a definite objective, it might appear that we had no definite objective in view at all, and that we were simply pursuing the negotiations for some other purpose except for the definite purpose of trying to effect reconciliation and peace; and, in truth, to try to get a solution, or find some means by which association with the community of nations known as the British Commonwealth might best be reconciled with Irish national aspirations. As to the motion for the approval of the Treaty, I still want to insist it is not an act as such, but simply a resolution of this Assembly. It would be ultra vires to ratify the Treaty. It is simply an approval of the report brought over by the Delegation. That motion has been carried, and as we have established such definite party lines here, there would be no good purpose served by moving and explaining the document here.
Whether that document is ruled out or not, I want to say this about it: we shall do our very best to secure the earliest possible publication of all the private documents which led up to that document; and I shall do my best, at the very first opportunity I have of doing it, to issue a criticism of that document, and that can go before the public, and let that criticism be answered in the same public way (applause).
THE SPEAKER:
The next motion is in my own name, and in order that I may move it, it will be necessary for the Deputy Speaker to take my place.
May I withdraw my motion?
When may I ask my question?
In No. 4 (d) of the Standing Orders it is laid down that the first business of the day shall be questions to Ministers, and all subjects thereto, and so on.
In the absence of the Deputy Speaker, I move that Deputy Liam de Roiste take the Chair.
I beg to second that.
THE SPEAKER
vacated the Chair which was then taken by ALDERMAN LIAM DE ROISTE.