The next item on the Orders of the Day is the Estimates for the public services. There is a further motion by Deputy Figgis in the Orders of the Day as private business. Deputy Darrell Figgis' motion would come on automatically at seven o'clock, and it would seem to me, therefore, that it would be simpler to take that motion now and take the Estimates afterwards, rather than to begin with the Estimates now and break the continuity of the discussion at seven o'clock and take Deputy Darrell Figgis' motion.
DISQUALIFICATIONS. - THE ESTIMATES.
On that point I suggest to the Minister of Finance that in view of the fact to which I drew attention this morning, that these Estimates were not in hand, and that we didn't have an opportunity of reading over them and considering them, that they be deferred until to-morrow, and that we should have an indication from the Minister as to which votes would be taken and in what order.
Yes; they are to be taken in the order of their numbers— 2, 3, 4, 9, 11, and so on.
Will you take the Estimates now?
I have no objection to waiting until to-morrow. I think it is a good idea to take up this matter of Deputy Darrell Figgis' now. I am quite willing. The order in which the Estimates will be dealt with is—2, 3, 4, 9, 11, 17, 21, 23, 24, 25, 30, 31, up to 38, 40, 41, 43 to 48, inclusive, 51, 57 and 58. I will take up the others later on.
Before we go on to my motion I would like to ask whether the Minister of Finance intends to commit the Estimates to the whole Dáil sitting in Committee of Supply? Would not that be the better way? The nature of these Estimates would be such that it would be very difficult to deal with them unless we went into Committee on Supply.
My idea of the Estimates is that we should go into Committee and move them one by one, each vote being put separately.
That would be what is called Committee of Supply in another place.
Then the Committee of the whole Dáil can report to the Dáil, and any resolution necessary can then be passed. That would enable a pretty full discussion on any particular vote. Is that method of procedure now completely understood? We will take the Estimates in the order given by the President in Committee of the whole Dáil.
And I take it that we will not discuss the Estimates this evening?
I would like to ask what would be the form of motion and what would be the actual procedure?
That the Dáil sit in Committee, they consider the Estimates for any particular service, and having passed a vote on account of say £x for the period say to the 6th December, recommend that the full Estimates of the necessary sum be adopted in due course by the Oireachtas. The idea is that you go into the question of details, and that subsequently, when Parliament is set up, that they be passed practically without opposition or discussion. There are very large numbers of items which require treatment, and in disposing of the Estimates in this way we get just the same opportunity of discussing them as if we were regularly established, and it gets this business out of the way.
Will it be requisite to put the discussion in order that a motion for reduction must be moved.
Yes; or the motion itself can be discussed. Now on the discussion, any matter arising on any Department or arising on any particular vote can be discussed, and only the particular Department provided for in that vote can be discussed.