Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 14 Nov 1923

Vol. 5 No. 11

LOCAL ELECTIONS POSTPONEMENT (AMENDMENT) BILL, 1923—FIRST STAGE.

Mr. BURKE

I beg to move for leave to introduce "A Bill to amend the Local Elections Postponement Act, 1922."

This Bill enacts as follows:—"The Local Elections Postponement Act, 1922, shall be and is hereby amended by the substitution of the words and figures `30th day of September' for the words and figures `1st day of January' where the last mentioned words and figures occur in Sub-section (1) of Section 1, and Sub-section (1) of Section 2 of the Act aforesaid. This Act may be referred to as `the Local Elections Postponement (Amendment) Act, 1923,' and this Act and the Local Elections Postponement Act, 1922, may be cited together as the Local Elections Postponement Acts, 1922 and 1923."

This Bill will amend the original Elections Postponement Act of 1923 in the following way:—"In Sub-section (1) of Section 1, instead of reading thus: `Every statutory election of councillors of boroughs, councillors of urban districts, and commissioners of towns which, but for this Act, would be held within twelve months after the passing of this Act, shall be postponed until such date not being later than the 1st day of January, 1924, as the Minister shall by Order prescribe,' it shall read as follows: `Every statutory election of councillors of boroughs, councillors of urban districts, and commissioners of towns, which, but for this Act, would be held within 12 months after the passing of this Act, shall be postponed until such date, not being later than the 30th day of September, 1924."

I do not think I can make it any clearer than that.

Major BRYAN COOPER

Can the Minister make it clearer as to the date when it is proposed to take these elections? They have been postponed repeatedly, and it does not make for efficiency of administration to have Councils working for any period under sentence of death. I do not want to tie the Government to an exact date, but if the Minister could give us an approximate time, and if he could say whether the month would be March or April I think it would be well.

Mr. WILSON

What is the exact reason for postponing the elections in this case? As there is not to be any alteration of the Register, why should they not be held immediately? The franchise to be used is the same, and why not go on now with the elections?

The PRESIDENT

The Minister for Local Government is only a short time in office, and it is rather difficult for him to make up his mind on a matter of great public importance which will affect the internal Government of this country for three or four years. The Minister ought to be allowed some opportunity of surveying the whole field of Local Government to see if any amendment of the law as it at present stands is advisable. If on an examination he finds that the present Register is not a correct Register steps will be taken to see that the next Register is an exact one, and that it will represent what it is intended to represent, namely, people qualified to vote, and consisting only of those qualified to vote. I do not think it is altogether fair to press the Minister for an exact answer to questions of this sort until he has had ample opportunity of examining the question in all its phases, remembering that the internal government of the country is only secondary in its importance to the ordinary administration we are discharging here, and when he has had an opportunity of surveying the whole field, I presume he will bring his proposal for any decision he may wish to take before the whole Dáil, and he will take the Dáil into his confidence with a view to remedying, should it be considered necessary, the existing state of affairs.

Mr. JOHNSON

Will it be possible to get any promise as to when a definite answer may be given as to the date of the elections, and, further, will it be possible to say whether all the local elections are likely to take place at the same time? Councils are not likely to be efficient—and they are blamed for inefficiency—while the threat of dissolution is hanging over their heads.

The PRESIDENT

These Councils have outrun their lives for a period of from six to nine months. Now, it has been put to the Ministry for some years past that it is not desirable to hold elections in the winter, and I believe the Minister for Local Government has that in his mind, and I believe he will be in a position to acquaint the Dáil with the date of the elections when we resume in the New Year. I do not think it would be reasonable to expect an answer in a shorter time.

Mr. DARRELL FIGGIS

There is one question the Minister might reasonably answer and which was not suggested until the President himself had spoken. Do I understand his words correctly to mean that he proposes the local elections will not be held upon the present Register, but that a new Register will have to be completed before further local elections are held? That would mean a long postponement, and if there is to be a postponement quite so distant as that surely we ought to have it in a clearer form, than in the inferential form the President put it before us. Surely we ought to know whether the elections, if postponed, are to be held on the present Register, or if there is to be a new Register or a more complete Register, before the elections are held.

Mr. CORISH

Are we to infer from the President's statement that the ordinary elections that would be held in January next are to be postponed?

The PRESIDENT

Yes.

Mr. BLYTHE

There is one point that I would like to make in connection with this. It is to the effect that it would be, to my mind, very detrimental to the interests of the country to have local elections until the rates situation has been pretty well cleared up. There were counties in which rates were very much outstanding when the last Order was issued postponing the local elections. If any attempt had been made to hold elections while those rates were outstanding it would be utterly impossible to get public bodies elected in those areas that would have done their duty in any sort of decent way. There are places in which County Councils have been replaced by Commissioners, because of failure to do their duty. Until the whole situation is made clear, and the rate collections brought up to date, to hold elections in those places would simply be inviting the return of Councils that would immediately have to be dissolved. In County Leitrim, for instance, there was, before the General Election, a rate collection going on, at the rate of £5,000 or £6,000 a week. When the General Election was announced the rate collection stopped practically, or it fell to £40 or £50 a week. People stopped paying arrears until they saw they could not escape. When the election was over, these payments were resumed. Any notion that a local election was pending in such areas would stop the collection of rates. They would hope that there would be new Councils elected, which would enable them to escape for some time further. Whatever other considerations are involved, the clearing up of the rate situation is a necessary one before local elections can be held.

Mr. CORISH

Is the Government going to give any help to the local Councils to get in the rates?

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE

That is a different question altogether.

Mr. CORISH

I do not think it is. It has an important bearing on what we are discussing.

Mr. CONNOR HOGAN

When the Minister is surveying the field or area, can he give us any information as to what he proposes to do with the unrepresentative Councils the people are so loudly crying out against? Is it proposed to leave them in office until the election?

Mr. P. HOGAN (Minister for Agriculture)

Is this in order?

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE

Surely not.

Mr. GOREY

I would like to ask the Minister for Local Government would he consider the advisability of appointing Commissioners to replace Councils that have shown gross maladministration and gross extravagance in public affairs, as the rate demands show. It is a gross scandal in some parts of the country. I will name some of the counties to make it clear.

Mr. BURKE

I think we have appointed Commissioners in several counties already. This is not a question that should be answered at this stage at all.

Question: "That leave be given to introduce the Local Elections Postponement (Amendment) Bill, 1923," put and agreed to.

Second Stage ordered for Wednesday, the 21st instant.