Deputy O'Mara has indicated to the Dáil that he is prepared to support this Resolution, and all the other resolutions which embody a Protectionist policy, although he is against Protection. He has been persuaded that as a matter of experiment this policy should be put into operation, but apparently he does not desire that the experiment should be for a very short time. It should be continued long enough to ensure that those engaged in the businesses that ought to be protected would have a fair opportunity to develop. I am not quite able to follow his reasoning in that But it is easily understood when one also heard him say that I may have taken a certain line of policy before the Fiscal Inquiry, and the leaders of the Transport Union took a different line. It would be well if Deputy O'Mara, one who had experience in another place, as they say, would be quite sure of his facts, before he makes pronouncements in An Dáil. I simply say that the statement is not correct. I leave it at that. The Minister for Agriculture said what I think is an unfortunate thing. Deputy Redmond drew attention to it. He said that those import duties upon boots, shoes, slippers, etc., were to be a test of the merits of a Protectionist policy, and if it failed, then, that was the end, and that one could go no further upon this policy. I suggest that it is not the best item on which to have a test of the merits of a Protectionist policy.
As a matter of fact there may be disadvantages accruing to this particular duty which would outweigh the advantages. There may be advantages accruing to similar duties upon other commodities which would not be outweighed by the disadvantages. And it is unfortunate, I say, that the Minister for Agriculture should add the weight of his opinion and responsible position to a statement that the whole question of protective tariffs would stand or fall by the result of tariffs upon boots and shoes. I think, for instance, that this duty in itself would have been much more likely to be effective without carrying with it some of the disadvantages, if the duty had been modulated, shall I say, so that a heavier scale of taxes would fall upon the higher priced boots and shoes, and a lower scale of taxes, ad valorem, would fall upon the lower priced boots and shoes. By such means the burden of taxes would not fall upon the working man with a big family. Notwithstanding that, I am going to support the motion. I have said that I believe that with certain conditions that import duties were at this stage of the country's development, probably the best way to ensure that development continuing or to arrest decline. I am not going to run away from that proposition when the first experiment is being mooted, even though it falls upon a commodity in a manner which I do not think is the best manner that could be applied. I have made a rough calculation as to the effect of these taxes.
I find from the report of the imports and exports for January there were imported 8,806 dozen pairs of men's boots, and 13,041 pairs of women's and children's boots. The value of the men's boots was £61,942, and of the women's and children's boots £65,927. That is, speaking roughly, 11s. 6d. per pair for men's boots and 8s. 4d. per pair for women's and children's boots on the average. Deputy Heffernan made the mistake in assuming that the duty is leviable upon the retail price. Unless the Minister is going to adopt entirely new methods the duty will be leviable upon the declared prices at the ports. One may fairly say that the retail price would be double, or very nearly double, the declared price at the ports. So that the 15 per cent. does not fall upon the retail prices. It will be only about 7½ per cent.
I have made this assumption, that speaking of the average working class purchase of boots, the duty will amount to, say, 1s. 3d. per pair, rather below the average, and on women and children's about 1s. per pair. Assuming that each member of the average family of five persons purchased two pairs a year, we have a duty borne by them of round about 10s. or 10s. 6d. per year. That fits in fairly well with the approximation of the saving upon the tea duty, assuming that the average purchase was one pound of tea per week. Unfortunately the saving on tea may be counterbalanced by the extra cost of boots, and we are being asked to assent, and in some cases we have so far assented, to the additional charges upon the workman's family in respect to confectionery, jams and cocoa, and, as will come a little later, on soap and candles. Though, as I said a little earlier, the balance in this Budget is weighted against the working-class family as a consumer, I think it is unfortunate that at this initial stage the Minister should have taken the line of making the cost of living inevitably higher by virtue of his new taxes. I am one of those who never pretended that protective duties did not raise prices. I believe it is inevitable in five out of seven cases at any rate that the protective duties would have the effect of raising the prices, but I would be prepared to meet that and to accept the fact, because I believe that the advantages may, subject to certain conditions, or if certain conditions are applied, redound generally to the advantage of the community. Deputy Heffernan and those sitting with him made some play about the cost to the farming community, and pointed out how necessary it was that if there were to be duties of a protective nature, then agriculture should get some of the benefits. Some hours ago Deputy Heffernan put a question to know whether the Minister for External Affairs had done anything to provide new markets for agricultural products on the continent of Europe. I want to suggest to him and those sitting with him that we may be finding a new market in Ireland.
According to the report of the Fiscal Inquiry Commission a little more than one out of fifteen pairs of boots and shoes purchased in Ireland was of Irish manufacture—it is slightly over 1/15th —and also the aggregate number employed at present in Irish factories is 700, while the possible capacity is over 1,000 hands. If 1/15th of the present consumption employs 700 people, and if the series of duties does bring into effect what the Minister and others hope, we may find that the market which Deputy Heffernan has been looking for on the Continent will be at his doors. Let us assume that the effect of these duties would be to raise the manufacture of Irish boots to half the total instead of 1/15th; supposing 7 out of 15 were home manufactured instead of 1 out of 15, and the number of persons engaged in the manufacture rose accordingly, we should have, instead of 700, approximately 5,000 people working at that industry. With 5,000 people working at that industry at an average wage, let us say, taking the various classes, ages, and sexes of, £2 a week, you have £520,000 a year of an additional market, about half a million of an additional market, for Irish grown agricultural produce.
You need not then go to Paris or Belgium—where you will not find a market by the way—you will have it at home. I suggest that there you will find a direct benefit to Irish agriculture. While it may be true—I think it probably is true—that the tax would not immediately have the effect of raising to the extent of half the demand for Irish-manufactured boots, there would be a steady increase. I am prepared to believe that the workers in the country —and the farmers in the country ought, too—will be agreeable to pay the extra price for boots when they see a steady encroachment upon the number of the unemployed. If they see 4,000 or 5,000 people taken out of that unemployed market they will know that there will be less competition for the jobs that are waiting, that their benefit would arise from the fact that the competition for jobs would be less intense, and that the position generally would be thereby improved. I believe that it is a good thing for the country—quite apart from the immediate effect—that there should be employed in the manufacture of the things that are required in Ireland as many people as can be within a reasonable amount of expenditure-even a reasonable amount of additional expenditure, even a reasonable burden upon the country, if it is to be a burden.
I think it is a good thing for the country that that burden should be borne, so that there will be a variety of occupations, and that we shall not be entirely dependent upon quality, or fashion, or style, but that we shall be able to manufacture things that we desire of the kind that we desire. I am prepared to advocate, at any rate, that we should be prepared to pay something for that benefit. I do not think that in the long run it will be an actual loss. I believe that in the long run it will be a benefit all round. I think the fact of employment being more general and more varied will remove this deadweight of unskilled, unemployed labour from the community's back. If you have 4,000 or 5,000 people at present waiting for employment they are not living on air. They are consuming something of the substance of the country. Whether they are getting it out of unemployment pay, living upon their neighbours, or robbing or begging, they are living somehow. I say it is better that we should have to bear the cost of this possible £300,000 per year and employ regularly in actual productive operations another 5,000 persons than that we should have them hanging upon the necks of the community.
While saying that, I would demur to the method of application and suggest, owing to the fact that home-manufactured boots are very much more likely to be in the rougher grades, that the incidence of the taxation should be heavier upon what may be called "luxury boots." The Minister may reply that the fact that it is an ad valorem duty will make it have a sliding-scale effect. I would make the super-tax scale come into operation, and let the scale be higher when we come to the higher-priced boots, and lower when we come to the lower range of boots. With that modification I would think the tax was quite satisfactory as an application of a principle which I have been prepared to support.
But there is another condition I want to touch upon, and upon which I shall have to enlarge at a later stage, and that is to ensure, that the conditions under which these protected boots are to be produced will be of a kind which will not mean the protection of a sweated industry. There will of necessity have to be some provisions made to ensure that the proprietors of the boot factories which are to be protected shall be bound to adhere to a certain minimum standard of wages and conditions. Unless that principle is applied, then the protective idea is going to be destructive and not helpful.