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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 26 Jun 1924

Vol. 7 No. 31

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE. - INDEMNITY BILL, 1924—MONEY RESOLUTION.

I move:—

Go bhfuil sé oiriúnach a údarú go n-íocfar amach as airgead a sholá thróidh an tOireachtas aon tsuimeanna a caithfar ar scór aon chúitimh, slánaíochta no aisíoca is iníoctha fé aon Achta a rith far sa tSiosón so chun srian do chur le himeachta dlí do bhunú i dtaobh gníomhartha agus nithe áirithe a dineadh le linn na gleice chun deire do chur le riail an Rialtais Bhriotáinigh in Eirinn agus chun anChéad Dháil Eireann agus an Dara Dáil Eireann fé seach do bhunú mar Rialtas dleathach do Shaorstát Eireann no a dineadh i rith na tréimhse a tháinig láithreach tar éis deire na gleice sin, agus chun forál acha do dhéanamh chun cúiteamh díoc le haicmí áirithe daoine maidir le gníomhartha agus nithe den tsórt roimhráite, agus chun dleathacht do thabhairt do dhaor-bhreitheanna agus d'fheidhmiú daor-bhreitheanna a thug bínsí mileata agus iad ag gníomhú fé údarás an Chéad Dháil Eireann no an Dara Dáil Eireann, agus chun crícheanna eile a bhaineas leis na nithe sin.

That it is expedient to authorise the payment out of moneys to be provided by the Oireachtas of any sums expended in respect of any compensation, indemnity or recoupment payable under the authority of any Act of the present Session to restrict the taking of legal proceedings in respect of certain acts and things done during the struggle to bring about the termination of the rule of the British Government in Irelandand the establishment of the first Dáil Eireann and the second Dáil Eireann respectively as the lawful Government of Saorstát Eireann or done during the period immediately succeeding the conclusion of that struggle and to make provision for the payment of compensation to certain classes of persons in relation to such acts and things as aforesaid, and to validate sentences and the execution of sentences imposed by military tribunals acting under the authority of the first Dáil Eireann or the second Dáil Eireann, and for other purposes connected therewith.

It is not possible with the present information to tell the House what the cost of the payments that may have to be made under this Bill will be, but in any case the debts are debts that must be paid. We were in much the same position in regard to the Estimates and the cost of the Damage to Property Act when that Act was passed. A provision was made for the hearing of claims under that Act on the basis that there were just claims that had to be made. These claims stand under the same category. The number of claims in at the present will not amount to a very great sum, but it is certain on the making of the provisions for the hearing of claims that there will be additional amounts.

I want to endeavour to ascertain from the Minister whether a certain case which has been already investigated by the Minister for Defence will come under the terms of this resolution. It is a case where funds were provided by some Irish sympathisers in Glasgow for the provision of arms and munitions to be sent to this country during pre-Truce days, and also expenses that were incurred as a result of the prosecution of a very important member of the I.R.A. in pre-Truce days. The amount involved is between three and four hundred pounds. The facts of the case have already been placed before the Minister for Defence on several occasions. On one occasion it was stated that they could not trace the papers. In the second place an answer was given that no compensation could be made. It is now stated that the papers were mislaid, but the fact is that no satisfaction whatever can be received from the Minister for Defence in this matter. The parties involved rendered very valuable service in pre-Truce days through their activities in Glasgow in regard to the matters I mentioned, and I think it is very unfair that the individuals concerned should be bandied about from pillar to post without even getting an assurance that under this Bill their claim will be seriously considered. I want to know from the responsible Minister before this resolution goes through whether a claim of that kind, which can be proved to be genuine, will be seriously considered by whatever Committee is set up under the terms of the Indemnity Bill.

I would like to know whether the Minister has in mind the method whereby he intends to pay those compensations. As he has pointed out, the sum is an unknown quantity. He does not even know the limit, and it may be that it will be very large. I desire to know whether the Minister proposes to pay in cash, issue bonds, or what is his method of paying this compensation.

There is nothing so far available to indicate that the sum would be so large as to lead to any necessity for paying in bonds. There will be no difficulty about paying in cash, even allowing for a very great extension, quadrupling, or a great deal more than quadrupling, the claims that have in one way or another come in. In regard to the point of Deputy Davin, I think that is a matter to be dealt with on the basis of a debt due for services incurred. It does not seem to be a matter to go into an Indemnity Bill at all.

If the claim has been dealt with in a very unsatisfactory way, if it has been turned down because no funds are available, then surely the Minister can give an assurance that the claim can be considered under the terms of this Bill and of the resolution he is now moving. An individual who was previously a member of this House and is now being entertained by this Government is conversant with the details of this claim.

It is a matter of establishing to the satisfaction of the Minister for Defence and the Minister for Finance that the sum is due and properly payable. If the funds are not payable under an existing Vote they may be made available by application to the Dáil under a proper Vote. It is not available for the machinery of this Act. If the money is due, it is due for services rendered.

Question put and agreed to.
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