Vol. 12 No. 16
I move that the Dáil sit later than 8.30 p.m. and that the motion for the adjournment be taken not later than 10.30 p.m.
I propose to take the items in the order in which they are set out on the Orders of the Day, with the exception of No. 5. No. 5 will replace No. 9, which will then become No. 8.
The Arterial Drainage Bill has been received, with amendments, from the Seanad, and should appear on the Order Paper. The amendments to the Bill have been circulated to Deputies and it will be necessary to fix a time for consideration of these amendments.
I propose to take No. 8 on the Orders of the Day, if it is not reached before the tea adjournment, immediately after tea, and after that I propose to take the Seanad amendments to the Arterial Drainage Bill.
Has the actual business for sitting later than 8.30 p.m. been mentioned? I believe it is necessary that it should be mentioned. Will it be Estimates?
It has become the custom to make an order to sit later than 8.30 with adjournment for tea, and to take the motion for adjournment not later than 10.30 for the consideration of the business on the Order Paper. That motion is not strictly in accord with the Standing Order, but for the convenience of the House it is taken in that way. Is it presumed that Estimates will be taken to-day?
They may be reached.
The only reason I had in mentioning the point was that if the ordinary business on the Order Paper carried the Dáil on until 9 o'clock, it might not be altogether wise to embark on an important Estimate like that of the Department of Industry and Commerce at that late hour.
The point that Deputy Figgis made is a point that I was going to make. We ceased an hour earlier than we need have done on Friday, rather than take the Vote of the Department of Industry and Commerce. We assumed it was to be taken to-day at, perhaps, a stated hour. Now, it seems to be one of those Votes that do not matter, that can be set aside whenever any other business intervenes. This is a matter of so much importance that we should know definitely whether it will be taken to-day or to-morrow.
I had an understanding with the Committee on Privileges that we would absorb something like ninety hours on Estimates. We have, so far, absorbed practically ninety hours and we have entered no objection. In order to carry out our undertaking, certain legislative proposals had to be brought before us. The view was generally expressed that the Dáil should adjourn on 26th June and that the legislative programme should not interrupt that adjournment. Taking the legislative programme as it stands and finishing it on Friday, with an allowance for Estimates of two extra days, would allow us to have an adjournment within a week of the time we had undertaken, with the exception of the one day that we are re-assembling for the election of the Seanad Panel. It was not intended, when I moved the adjournment at the earlier hour on Friday, that we would take the Estimate for Industry and Commerce to-day. I expect it will be impossible to reach it this afternoon, but if reached, the Minister would make his statement even though it was a few minutes past nine o'clock.
I think it is necessary to say that there was no intention, during the discussion as to when Estimates were to be taken, to defer the Estimate for the services connected with the Department of Industry and Commerce until the last two or three days of the Session. The deferring was agreed to because of the stress that the Minister was working under. Now, we are, apparently, being left in the position that this, the most important of all the Departments—if I may say so—is to be treated as a matter of no importance and as quite a secondary affair. I cannot understand the point of view of the President in this. I can only protest against it.
If, last Friday, it was considered inconvenient to take at the last hour an Estimate of this kind, surely it is more inconvenient to start it at a late hour to-night after a lot of other business has been disposed of. It is obviously, as Deputy Johnson has stated, one of the most important Votes, and one that raises the most important questions that could possibly be covered by the Estimates. The Minister will, no doubt, be making an exhaustive statement on the general policy of his Department in introducing the debate. That is a statement that will be of the very greatest importance. A statement of that kind should not be taken at the end of the day, or at a late hour, after nine o'clock at night, for the sake of an hour or so.
I would like to add my protest to that raised by Deputy Johnson against putting this Vote in a position of relative unimportance. I think the Vote merits the fullest consideration and fair notice as to when it is going to be taken should be given to Deputies, so that they may be prepared to be present.
Nothing is added to the importance of this Estimate by the three speeches that have been made. The Minister realises the importance of this Vote just as much as the Deputies who have spoken, and if they multiplied their speeches by three it would not add, in the least, to the importance of the Vote. Nothing is detracted from the importance of the matter by reason of the hour at which the Vote is taken. We do not dine late. We do not consider things in the way that people usually do after dinner. At any hour of the day at which a matter is taken up, its relative importance is really not affected in any way. If Deputies are not here—if they cannot devote the necessary time—that is their misfortune rather than our fault. We will be here. The Minister will be here and he will make a statement at that time. The fact that it is taken after eight or nine o'clock does not detract from its importance. When I undertook to move the adjournment at three o'clock on Friday, I did not do so on my own initiative. I was informed that it was not unacceptable to the Deputies. I am always anxious to meet the convenience of the Deputies, and they have always been willing to meet ours. I may say that the Minister resents, in the strongest manner, any imputation that may be laid on him or on the Executive Council, as to their non-appreciation of the importance of this Estimate.
On a point of order, I want to know whether the adoption of item No. 1 on the Orders of the Day, i.e., the motion by the Minister for Finance, would affect No. 3 on the Orders of the Day, that is another motion by the Minister for Finance. No. 1 reads: “That leave be given to introduce the following Supplementary Estimate for the service of the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1926, namely, Vote No. 62 (Supplementary Agricultural Grant).” Now, I have an amendment down to No. 3, which is another motion by the Minister for Finance in reference to the Agricultural Grant. My amendment to that motion is an endeavour to get the charge placed on the Central Fund. I want to know whether that amendment would be ruled out if we decided to adopt motion No. 1 and gave leave to introduce a Supplementary Estimate?
No. If leave is given to introduce a Supplementary Estimate, it will not rule out the amendment to the Money Resolution, No.3. That is to say, the amendment will not be ruled out on that ground, if it is ruled out.
Suppose we did adopt the motion—No. 3—what would happen to No. 1?
That would be a problem for the Minister.
I suggest that the Minister should permit No. 3 to be taken before No. 1.
Ordered—"That the Dáil sit later than 8.30 p.m., and that the motion for the adjournment be taken not later than 10.30 p.m."
