asked the Minister for Justice whether he is aware that on December 22nd, 1925, a general raid was made on the persons and premises of railwaymen of all grades in different parts of the Saorstát, by men in plain clothes claiming to be detectives, but producing no warrants; whether he is aware that in some cases engine drivers and firemen were, it is alleged, taken from their engines in the presence of the passengers, subjected to a rigorous search, and in certain instances compelled to remove part of their clothing, including their boots; whether in some instances it is stated the search party indulged in party expressions and jeers at the expense of the men they were searching; and whether simultaneously and on previous dates it is alleged the homes of these men, as well as the homes of station-masters and other railway employees, were also raided by plain clothes men and ransacked; if the Minister will inform the Dáil of the reason for this search of railwaymen, and if he will give an assurance that in any similar circumstances in the future, the identity of the search party as officers of the State will be fully established before the search takes place.
CEISTEANNA—QUESTIONS. ORAL ANSWERS. - RAILWAYMEN'S PREMISES RAIDED.
I am aware that a general hold-up of railwaymen suspected of carrying despatches for persons hostile to the State was carried out last month. The officers engaged in this official search carried out their duty in as courteous a manner as the nature of that duty would permit, and if the Deputy can substantiate the complaint that, in some cases, insulting political expressions and jeers were used, suitable action will be taken against the Gárdaí concerned.
Will the Minister reply to the latter part of the question regarding proof of identification of the men concerned?
As to that, we would know, of course, who the Gárdaí were who carried out any particular search.
Who would know?
I would know.
The person who is being searched wants proof whether those people are detectives or not.
I am not quite sure that I understand the Deputy. There is a question here of an allegation of improper conduct on the part of the Gárdaí connected with a particular duty. Now, if complaints are made, and can be substantiated, against any Gárda engaged upon this duty at any of those places, we can take appropriate action.
I want an assurance from the Minister—and I think it is not unfair to ask it—that on any future occasion of this kind the parties concerned, if they are officers of the State, will produce their authority and show what they are before they carry out the search.
Certainly, but I would like to be satisfied first that in any particular case that authority was not produced on being asked for.
Will the Minister also say, if, as a result of this general search and raid on a very large number of men, there has been found evidence of any plot or any evidence which would go to show that there was an organised campaign on the part of the railwaymen to overthrow the Governor-General and his young Ministers?
The Deputy need not be unduly alarmed. The action was taken as a result of certain documents found in the office of the person who acted as Director of Intelligence for the Irregular Organisation. The names of certain railway employees were found listed there as friendly persons who could be relied upon to do service. As a result of that, this simultaneous hold-up throughout the country, and a search of men whom we had good reason to suspect, was undertaken last month. If it can be shown that any improper conduct on the part of the Gárdaí took place on the occasion we can deal with it.
The action itself was official action, for which I take full responsibility, and I can, of course, give no undertaking that such will not be repeated in the future.
Will the Minister issue general, but definite, instructions that searches on no account shall be undertaken by Guards in plain clothes —at any rate unless they show some authority? That complaint is very general, and it is evident that it is not the practice in the initial stages to show authority for such searches.
Naturally, persons who are detectives cannot go around wearing some open insignia to show that they are detectives. That would defeat the end in view. Every plainclothes Guard carries an identification card with him and is expected to produce that whenever there is the slightest doubt or question as to his identity and authority to act in a particular manner.
Should not that be the first act on the part of an officer before proceeding on his search?
It should, and generally is.
No.
That is not my information.
It generally is. The man does not do something without showing he has authority. He does not go in any haphazard manner and proceed to search without stating whom he is and establishing himself.
I am afraid he does. The complaint is too general from many parts of the country to have no foundation.
The Deputy must exercise his commonsense in that matter. Complaints about the police who perform that duty will naturally come from some people. These are people, for the most part, who consider it good business for propaganda purposes to represent themselves as being aggrieved when they have no grievance of any kind.
Is the Minister aware that a person known locally as "Kid McCoy" has been masquerading around Dublin as a detective and has actually deceived members of the Force? If this is the case will he see that more effective measures are taken to be able to show the identification of the detectives?
I am open to consider any suggestions that Deputy Redmond or Deputy Johnson may care to make in the matter. I know of no more satisfactory safeguard than the one that exists, that these officers carry an identification card. It should be produced whenever there is the slightest need for its production. A plain-clothes officer proceeding to do some official act such as the making of an arrest or search should, in the first instance, state his authority for that. The next is the supporting evidence. If it is not sufficient, there is then the identification card to be produced.
Is the Minister aware that in the case of some raids referred to in this question the houses of station-masters and clerks were entered without the production of that card? Will he, in view of the fact that these people hold the keys of safes containing money and valuables, insist that documentary evidence must be produced before they enter the house?
Their cards should be produced if any real question of their identity is raised, but they need not be produced if they are accepted as being what they represent themselves to be. A man says: "I am going to search this house. I am a member of the Civic Guard." If that is accepted the production of the identification card is unnecessary, but all those officers carry means of establishing themselves, and should produce it when necessary.
I wonder would the Minister deal with the question from this point of view: that if the onus of producing the identification is placed on officers in the first instance, then a great deal of trouble will be avoided. As it is at present, there is a conflict between the two persons, and it is only after a good deal of barging, to use a slang word, that the officer produces his identification.
I do not accept that.