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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 25 May 1926

Vol. 15 No. 19

ESTIMATES FOR PUBLIC SERVICES. - VOTE 59 (MARINE SERVICE).

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £5,477 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1927, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí na Muir-Sheirbhíse (Merchant Shipping Acts, 1894-1921, Crown Lands Acts, 1829-1866).

That a sum not exceeding £5,477 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1927, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Marine Service (Merchant Shipping Acts, 1894-1921, Crown Lands Acts, 1829-1866).

This matter is completely ruled by statute. Sub-head A, dealing with salaries, wages and allowances, shows in so far as the two sub-heads, Mercantile Marine Offices and Survey Services, are concerned, an increase of about £300. Deputies will notice that there has been an increase of one in the personnel attached to the Mercantile Marine Office. That one is an extra clerical officer, and that represents an increase in the Vote of about £250. There are, of course, savings on the Vote, the savings being equalled by certain other advances. Of the two clerical officers, one is attached to the superintendent and the other to the deputy superintendent, the superintendent having to deal with Dublin, and the deputy superintendent being located in Cork. The other increases, with the exception of that £250 due to the extra clerical officer, are due entirely to annual increases in salaries and bonuses.

The other service, the Survey service, while keeping the same numbers, shows a saving of about £10. Sub-head B also shows a decrease from £968 to £730 this year. It includes a miscellaneous collection of items such as the provision of uniforms, payment of legal expenses, medals for presentation for gallantry at sea, technical newspapers and matters of that type. On sub-head BB £10 is set down to cover possible cost of any inquiry that may arise into any accident to shipping. There was one such big inquiry, and the actual cost was much more than £10. That was an inquiry into the loss of the "Lismore" some years ago. The £10 would represent the nominal sum likely to be brought into payment in any year in the case of an accident. If there were more than one or two accidents in a year that sum would require to be very definitely increased. Sub-head C shows somewhat of a saving on the Estimate, but it is not very much; it amounts to only £17. It is founded on the experience of what the ordinary cost is. Sub-head D stands at the same figure as last year. It is an item largely recoverable and the other side is shown in sub-head G. The same remarks apply to sub-head E, relief of distressed seamen. Most of it is recoverable, and would be represented by portion of the money indicated in sub-head G.

Coast Life-Saving Service stands pretty much as last year's figures with one exception. The cost of telephones shows an increase of about £56, due to the fact that there has been a better linking up of the various officers in connection with the Coast Life-Saving Service. More stations are joined up than last year, and that accounts for the increase. All the other items stand as they were, except that there is a saving of £30 in rents for rocket houses, watch huts and exercise grounds, but against that there is an increase in the allowance paid to the store-keeper. The amount mentioned, £1,700, represents what is paid for the main charges of the Coast Life-Saving Service. It is mainly a volunteer service, but the No. 1 and No. 2 men at all stations are paid. I think the No. 1 man gets £15 and the No. 2, £10, but in some stations the figures fall to £12 and £6. The other payments are for drills that are done by the volunteer crews, so that the £1,700 represents pretty well the expenditure on the Coast Life-Saving Service in so far as payments to the personnel are concerned. I omit the separate payments to the Inspector, two superintendents and the store-keeper, which are set out in the Estimate. The appropriations-in-aid are estimated to bring in a larger amount this year than last year owing to the fact that the fee for the survey of ships has been raised.

This Vote shows a net decrease of £2,000. I understand that the £4,600 set aside as the estimate for the cost of the Coast Life-Saving is to be compared with an item of £20,000 which was the cost for a similar service before the Free State took it over.

I was hopeful that the Minister would give more detail with regard to the Coast Life-Saving Service and Coastal Preventive Work dealing with life or property saving. I think the public are not very well aware—and I wonder if Deputies are any better informed—as to what is the position of the Free State in regard to life-saving services in general, including the lights. I think the Minister will be well advised to avail of this opportunity to inform the Dáil and the public on this subject. The lighthouse service is, no doubt, mainly a life-saving one and should have some relationship, I think, to the coastwise service ashore. I do not know whether there is in contemplation any new agreement with regard to the maintenance of the lights, lighthouses or lightships, but I think if the Minister gave, in some general way, an outline of the present position and whether there is any change contemplated it would be an advantage. A question has arisen more than once as to the adequacy of the life-saving service, rocket service, coast-watching and, incidental thereto, the lifeboat service. We realise that the lifeboat service is a voluntary service, but apparently we are paying a certain sum of money to maintain or keep the crews in training. I take it that refers to the lifeboat crews?

I would like to have made clear the relationship, if any, between the lifeboat service and the coast-watching service, rocket crews and so on. There is a feeling abroad that there is not adequate service— that while there may have been a big saving we are not doing as well in that regard as the old regime. I think it must be recognised as against that, that while from the purely humanitarian point of view we are bound to do all that is necessary in case of a wreck. or the danger of wreck, the charge upon the Irish funds, if we were to do that adequately, would be, in respect to shipping other than Irish shipping, Obviously, in our case, the great bulk of the shipping around our coast which would be served by the Irish Coastal Life-Saving Service, would be British shipping. It is because of that, that I think there should be some public statement of the position, and whether any intention is in mind in regard to a change of policy in this matter. There is sufficient public interest in it to warrant the Minister making a fuller statement than has been yet made. If the Minister is in a position to do that it would be well to do it this afternoon.

The Deputy has raised three questions. One was in reference to the Irish lighthouses. That is to be the subject of a convention, but that convention has not been agreed to yet. Negotiations are in progress, but they are being carried on by the Department of Finance and not by my Department. I am concerned here merely with the coast life-saving service, and the moneys shown here do not include any expenditure for lifeboat service. That is a different matter altogether. We have, of course, very harmonious and cordial relations with them, and the amount here which indicates the further installation of telephone facilities is for the purpose of conveying information as to vessels in distress around the coast to any apparatus station or to any lifeboat station. We are linked up with them, but no part of the moneys estimated here is to be spent on the training of lifeboat crews. The crews I spoke of were volunteer crews kept for the purpose of our coast life-saving service.

Would the Minister say if the telephone service is always available or if it depends on any local post office arrangement?

It does not depend on local arrangements. It is to be always available. So far—although there have been newspaper statements to the contrary—there has been no failure. Where there was a telephone service they were able to link up with the headquarter staff in connection with the marine service and to have vessels in distress reported at once and all the necessary precautions taken. Two or three instances were indicated by the Press of people outside the Department who had picked up signals during the winter. There is no denying that these signals might have been picked up by other people, but they had been previously picked up by the headquarters staff of my Department and the whole machinery had been set in motion.

As to the question of enlarged services, there has been no evidence yet put forward as to the need for greater expenditure on coast watching. No evidence has been put forward sufficient to found a case with which we might go to the British Government or whatever Government would be represented by most of the shipping that circulates around our shores. Deputy Johnson, I think, suggested two years ago that inasmuch as most of the shipping around the coast was not registered here, and as most of the service would be for the benefit of shipping companies, the shipping companies might have some levy made for this purpose. Until there is evidence of a failure, or evidence to show that some greater provision is necessary in this regard, I do not think we could reasonably approach the shipping companies or the British Government. If that case is made and if evidence is brought forward, then there is very good reason for having the money paid by those whose property, with the lives aboard, is dependent upon shipping services outside this country. There has been no case, I think, in which there has been any complaint raised with regard to the inadequacy of the coast life-saving service except possibly in the case of the lamentable occurrence at Dun Laoghaire, where two hobblers lost their lives. In that case, no possible provision in the way of coast watching could have made any difference whatever.

With regard to the work actually done by this service for the year ended 31st March, 1926, there are 51 of these stations around the coast. There are about 12 along the Eastern coast, 26 along the Southern coast, and the remainder along the Western and Northern coasts. There were over two hundred exercise or drills held during the year and there was attendance at twelve shipwrecks. The rocket apparatus was instrumental in saving four lives. Twenty-five vessels foundered or standard. The total number of persons on board was 313, of whom 302 were saved, 11 lives being lost. Nine of the boats became total wrecks and the remainder were refloated. I should say that in addition to the four saved through the instrumentality of the rocket apparatus, there were 30 persons saved from a vessel by means of ropes stretching from the ship to the shore. Thirty-six, stations had telephone apparatus installed during the year. Arrangements have been made to have all the stations connected with the telephone system, and that connection will be independent, as far as possible, of any local conditions, and will be always available.

I do not think there is any provision in the present Estimates for a contribution towards the Irish Lights.

No. No contribution is being made at the moment. Negotiations are proceeding as to what should be the final contribution and how the whole service is finally to be managed.

We all recognise that the Irish Lights have been carried on at substantial loss. I do not know what the financial condition of the Irish Lights is at the moment, but I know there has been a substantial deficit in the working in the past. If we are not making any provision for a contribution this year, does it mean that our liabilities will accumulate and that we will have to pay the accumulated amount later on? The Minister says there is a Convention in the air in connection with the whole service. The lights maintained around our coast in connection with the Irish Lights Commissioners are only partially for ships of the Free State. It brings us to a realisation of the small amount of shipping emanating from ports of the Free State. It is very regrettable that the home marine service should be adequately covered by a Vote of something like £12,000 or a net Vote of £8,000 odd. One is forced to regret that a much bigger Vote is not required. That brings home to us the fact that home tonnage is practically non-existent. There is very little shipping owned in the Free State at present. I suppose it would be premature to ask the Minister if the Government have any definite policy on that matter nor could I really advocate the adoption of any policy in this direction at the moment, because it will have to settle itself by the evolution of time. I think there is no more material for criticisism in connection with this service, but it seems to me to be beneath our dignity to carry on our whole marine service with the inadequate sum of £8,000.

Would the Minister say is any charge made to his Department for lights on shipping coming into Irish ports, and how is it disposed of?

Deputy Hewat has spoken of the Irish Lights Service. I fear I must have misunderstood him when I thought I heard him say that generally the Lighthouse Fund has not been able to meet the charges. If he meant the funds derived from Irish shipping would not pay for the protection of Irish shipping that is quite right, but there is a general lighthouse fund levied on ships. That is far from being inadequate, and it is from that fund that the Irish Lights Service is being maintained. The report of the Convention was not ready for this year's Estimates, but will be here before next year's Estimates are under discussion. Deputy Johnson's question may be answered by saying that there is no such charge made.

Were there any charges made?

There is generally a lighthouse fund. There are certain duties.

Are those collected by the Minister's Department?

By the Port Authorities?

I think the Irish Lights Commissioners have got grants in the past. If they did not get grants it is all right, but so far as the lighthouse service is concerned it does not come into this Vote at all. I maintain the lighthouse service is not local but actually international. The lighthouses should be in one fund and should not be even confined to Great Britain. They are for the service of every vessel that uses the ocean.

Motion put and agreed to.
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