Before we proceed to the Orders of the Day, there is a question of urgency that I would like to raise some time during the afternoon, if it be agreeable to the Government to set aside time for the discussion of it. It is in connection with the tracing of foot-and-mouth disease in Great Britain to a Dutch port, and as Deputies may have seen by to-day's Press, it has created something like a sensation in Scotland and in England. I would like to give the Minister for Lands and Agriculture an opportunity of explaining the position we are in with regard to this matter, and to ask whether any precautions have been or will be taken to safeguard the interests of the Irish livestock trade. If the Government is not agreeable to that, I will raise the question on the adjournment.
IMPORTED FROZEN PORK. - DANGER OF FOOT-AND-MOUTH DISEASE.
I take it that what is really required is a statement by the Minister for Lands and Agriculture on this question, with some more liberty than is possible at the ordinary question time. If the Minister is prepared to deal with it I have no objection to having it taken, either now or for some limited period later on.
Mr. HOGAN
I am really asked what steps were taken to prevent the spread of foot-and-mouth infection from the import of pork, and this arises out of the discovery in England that pork imports have been responsible for some infection that occurred in Glasgow recently. I can answer that question now quite shortly. There are practically no imports of frozen pork to the Free State at the moment, or even to Ireland. There was some trade in frozen pork last year, and Deputies will remember that an allegation was made here that this pork was sold as Irish, both in Ireland and in England. As a result of that statement, inspectors of the Department of Agriculture made investigations, and got in touch with firms, notably one in Sligo, that were importing this pork. As each consignment came in, these firms were visited, and information was obtained from them as to where the pork was going, etc., and as a result of that procedure the import of pork stopped to a great extent. There was a fairly considerable trade last year, but there is very little—practically none—this year. The position is that in the month of May no frozen pork was coming in. In April, 96 pigs came into Sligo from Glasgow; in March, 200 to Dublin from Liverpool; and in February, January, and December none came in. There are practically no importers of frozen pork into this country, so that there does not seem to be any real danger.
There may be now if they are diverted from England.
Mr. HOGAN
That is so. Even when they were coming in they came almost entirely to Sligo. Consequently it is an easy thing to watch it and control it. I am not certain at present as to whether we have powers to prevent the import of frozen pork. I am consulting with the Veterinary Branch on that matter, and if necessary will consult with the Local Government Department. If we have powers, and if the situation warrants it, we will use them; and if we have not powers and we think them necessary, we will get them.
That might be a bit too late.
I think that the Minister is not aware of the fact that oftentimes pigs and other carcasses are sent out of this country in crates. It is well that this matter has been discovered in England, and it is a great matter for us here, because we all remember when a number of English agriculturalists were trying to blacken this country and when they said that we were cloaking the disease. Now the cat is out of the bag; it has been found that it is spread from continental countries, so that we have a clean bill of health, one of the cleanest in the world. I think a matter of such importance to this country should not be passed over lightly, and for that reason I consider that the House should devote a few minutes to it. I think it is of more importance than any other business that may be transacted, for the reason that there is danger that we may get some of the disease carried in from Scotland and England that may give us considerable trouble similar to that which they have had in England for the last three or four years.
I do not want to take up too much of the time of the House, but briefly this is what occurred:—
Foot-and-mouth disease broke out on Saturday week in Scotland, after the country had been free for about two years. Cattle and sheep were found to be infected at Carluke, Lanarkshire, on May 22, and a further outbreak occurred in that district two days later, on the 24th, and on the 27th another case was reported. The first outbreak of the disease occurred among stock grazing in a field near Carluke station. In the field were a number of heifers and feeding cows, besides several sheep. Forty-three head of cattle and 22 sheep were slaughtered and burned. The source of the outbreak, it is stated, has been traced to a shipment of pigs from Holland. The assistant veterinary inspector for the county of Lanark, in the course of his rounds on Monday, noticed the carcasses of three pigs being removed from a lorry into a ham curer's establishment. He examined the carcasses, and found evidence that the pigs had been suffering from foot-and-mouth disease when they were killed. Inquiry showed that they had been shipped from Holland through Leith.
It is stated that a man working with the ham curer had, in order to reach his home, to pass through the field in which the infected cattle were grazing. Foot-and-mouth lesions had also been found on a few carcasses of pigs sent from Rotterdam, via Leith, to bacon manufacturers' premises in Thornhill, Dumfriesshire. From the original cases at Carluke there was a further development, and on May 26 an outbreak was confirmed at Carlisle and another at Kilmarnock. It is understood that these cases have been traced to contacts with the original outbreak at Carluke. In spite of reports to the contrary, no official statement regarding the origin of the outbreak has been issued by the Ministry of Agriculture, but a local announcement associated the outbreak with carcasses landed at Leith per the steamer "Lanrick" from Rotterdam.
One of the later outbreaks was among cattle in a field at Carluke, situated about half a mile from the scene of the first outbreak. The National Farmers' Union of Scotland has asked the Ministry of Agriculture what steps are being taken to prohibit the importation into Scotland of pigs such as have given rise to the outbreak. For some time past the danger of the importation of foot-and-mouth disease from Continental countries, in which it has been rife, has been emphasised in many quarters in Great Britain. Packing straw, crates, bulbs and other articles have been under suspicion, and the likelihood of such imports spreading disease led to the drafting of the Straw and Packing Materials Order. Another aspect of the matter was emphasised in a resolution of the National Pig Breeders' Association. In January, 1925, Mr. R.P. Haynes on that occasion suggested that the attention of the Ministry of Agriculture should be drawn to the number of crates containing pig carcasses brought into Smithfield and other dead-meat markets every day, such crates being loaded on farms in foreign countries and unloaded here, after which they were returned and used again. No cases of disease in this country have been directly traced to Continental meat until the present outbreak in Scotland.
The headquarters of the National Farmers' Union in Scotland has issued a warning in connection with the matter. I think we ought to be pleased that this discovery has been made. Apparently, they have no regulations in Great Britain up to the present, but the Minister for Agriculture in England, speaking on the matter last night, mentioned that he had to consult his Executive, and said he did not know what steps they were going to take. For the present, he mentioned, they had prohibited the importation of this foreign meat into Great Britain. Some twelve months ago, what I was told were New Zealand pigs, came into this country. A consignment of 1,600 of them came into Belfast. Some of these pigs went to Sligo and were cured there. The curers in Sligo generally market their bacon in Scotland. We might very easily get the disease into this country through that source. There used to be a dead-meat trade between this country and England, but there is not so much of it now. The pigs used to be sent in crates to the London market in hampers belonging to the L.M. and S. Railway. As explained in the extract I have read, thousands of these crates come into London. They are to be seen by anyone attending the markets in Smithfield. You might have these crates scattered all over the country, and, of course, there could be no greater means than that of spreading the disease. Now that the disease has been traced to Continental countries, all the necessary precautions should be taken by our Department of Agriculture. I might say that we are very grateful to our Department of Agriculture for the great activity it has displayed all along the line. We are only sixty-seven miles by water from Great Britain, and it was really a miracle that we escaped from the numerous outbreaks they had in that country. It cost them over five millions of money to stamp out the disease there. We can now say to Great Britain that we have the cleanest bill of health in the world, and that there can be no more talk to the effect that we were more or less cloaking up the disease.
What ought to concern us is that sufficient precautions are taken here to ensure us against the disease coming in. If the Minister has not the power that he requires, then he should take it immediately, and to the extent of preventing imports from England coming here. Up and down through England during the last few years foot-and-mouth disease has been pretty prevalent. I do not think that any pigs, except those that are quarantined, should be allowed into this country at all.
Mr. HOGAN
No live animals are allowed in.
I would go so far as to say that no dead ones should be allowed in, because it has been proved that dead carcasses have carried the disease from Holland. The Continent has always been reeking with the disease, and of course with so much imports into England it ought to have been obvious to them that under the circumstances prevailing they could not have stamped out foot-and-mouth disease in their country. All the steps that are necessary ought to be taken at once to prevent the possibility of the disease coming to this country. If there was an outbreak here it is not the amount of money spent in stamping it out we would have to consider, so much as the losses that would be involved by the holding-up of the export of our cattle. It would, of course, cost a huge sum of money to stamp out the disease, but that loss would not be anything compared with the other that I have indicated. The Minister ought to take any steps that are necessary, no matter how drastic they may be, to prevent the possibility of the disease coming in here. Even if it were necessary for him to go outside the law in this connection, I think he would be justified in doing so, because the end justifies the means in most things.
I want to know if I understood the Minister to say, in connection with the carcasses of pork landed in Sligo some years ago, that the steps then taken caused the trade practically to cease there, and whether he still has machinery for employing the same precautions in the event of cargoes of frozen pork arriving at any of our Irish ports. I was not quite clear as to what the Minister said on the subject, but if the machinery that he referred to in connection with the importation of pork into Sligo is still available he should, I think, see that it is used now.
I would ask the Minister not to overlook the fact that large quantities of goods are imported into this country. Some few years ago, when I was a member of the Port and Docks Board, it was discovered that some of these goods came in packed in hay and straw. An order was then issued that all these goods should be traced, and that the hay and straw in which they were packed should be burned immediately the goods were unpacked. Large quantities of electrical goods came in packed in hay and straw, and there is the danger that this hay and straw might be infected as it was some years ago. I think precautions in that direction should be taken.
Deputy Byrne need have no apprehension on the last head. I forgot the regulation last year and I tried to bring over a box of things packed in straw, but not, I hope. infected straw. Though it was passenger's luggage, the carrying company absolutely refused to handle the parcel. I had to put the box into the cloakroom and take it back with me the next time I was in London. The packing had to be removed and the goods were then wrapped up in paper. As far as I know the carrying companies take very great precautions in this matter. They will not handle anything that they believe to be packed in straw.
Mr. HOGAN
As regards the point made by Deputy Byrne, the position is as stated by Deputy Cooper. We go even further because we do not allow the person importing goods into this country the option of having the straw burned and of having the goods unpacked. What we do is, we simply send back the goods. With regard to Deputy Leonard's question, complaints were made that pork was being imported into Sligo and sold as Irish cured bacon. It was from that point of view that the investigations were made, not to investigate as to whether the pork was coming in but as to whether it was cured here and sold as Irish bacon. In the course of these investigations our inspectors called constantly at this place to ask when they got their last consignment or when a consignment arrived to find out where the the pork or bacon was going. These are the only powers they have in the matter. As a result of what I should say the firm regarded as a certain amount of harrying, they stopped the trade and the trade has practically ceased. We have no further powers than that. We have market inspectors who can call at any depôt to find out what goods have arrived there and where they are going, and of course we shall continue that now especially in regard to pork. As I have stated already I will investigate the question as to whether we have any powers under any Act to prevent the importation of pork. That is a question that will be investigated, and if we find that we want powers we will ask for them.
I suggest that you ask the Minister for Finance to put a tariff of a shilling a pound on imported pork.
Was the case against the importer you referred to proved?
Mr. HOGAN
No.