asked the Minister for Justice if he will state whether, on a Wednesday following a burglary at Templeogue Post Office, on the 4th November, 1927, officers of the C.I.D. arrested Messrs. Vincent and Sidney Smith, of Everton, Templeogue, at six o'clock in the morning and brought them to the Gárda Barracks, from where they were released after interrogation; whether at any time from arrest to release Sidney Smith was maltreated, and whether the home of James Nolan, Knocklyon Cottage, was raided the same morning.
CEISTEANNA—QUESTIONS. ORAL ANSWERS. - TEMPLEOGUE INCIDENTS.
SEAN MAC AN tSAOI
MINISTER for JUSTICE (Mr. Fitzgerald-Kenney)
On the night of 28th October last the Templeogue Post Office was burgled, and cash, money orders and stamps to the value of £15 17s. were stolen. In consequence of information received a sergeant and two Guards from Crumlin Barracks visited the residence of Vincent and Sidney Smith about 6 a.m. on the morning of the 2nd November, 1927, and the sergeant informed their father that his sons were required to come to the barracks for interrogation. No objection was raised by the father, and when the boys had their breakfast the whole party left for the barracks. Sidney Smith was not assaulted or ill-treated in any way. On the way to the barracks a Guard separated from the party for about 20 minutes and made inquiries at the house of James Nolan. The Guard did not go into the house, but spoke to Nolan in the front garden, and his house was not searched.
Mr. MacENTEE
Does the Minister deny that some of the C.I.D. officers on this occasion beat Sidney Smith with a revolver across the shoulders, kicked him, and in other ways maltreated him?
Mr. FITZGERALD-KENNEY
I certainly do deny it, and if Sidney Smith has any complaint against them he can proceed in the ordinary way.
Mr. MacENTEE
If I submit to the Minister a statement signed by Sidney Smith, and any other evidence I may have, will the Minister cause inquiries to be made?
Mr. FITZGERALD-KENNEY
I prefer statements which are on oath to be made in court.
Mr. MacENTEE
Does the Minister accept responsibility for the Gárda Síochána and the C.I.D. or not? Is he responsible to this House for their conduct?
Mr. FITZGERALD-KENNEY
Yes.
Mr. MacENTEE
If a member of the House submits a categorical complaint signed by the man who makes it, which he is satisfied from inquiry is well founded, will the Minister inquire into the circumstances or not?
Mr. FITZGERALD-KENNEY
I have already told the Deputy that if persons have complaints against the Guards, they can bring legal proceedings against them, and then the matter will be entirely, properly and correctly sifted.
Mr. MacENTEE
Will the Minister undertake the expenses necessary to bring these legal proceedings?
Mr. FITZGERALD-KENNEY
No.
Mr. MacENTEE
Every time a question is raised in the House as to the conduct of the Gardai we are met with that reply—that if the people agree, and they may be poor people in many cases, to take proceedings and to undertake the expenses of the prosecution, they may get justice. I submit that is not the point.
Mr. FITZGERALD-KENNEY
I never suggested they should undertake the costs of a prosecution, or bring prosecutions; I said they might bring civil actions.
Mr. S. JORDAN
And if successful in the courts, as in the case of Wexford, the Guards will be changed and the decree cannot be brought into effect.
Mr. FITZGERALD-KENNEY
I am not aware of any case in Wexford where the Guards were changed.
Mr. S. JORDAN
Well, Waterford.
Mr. G. BOLAND
The county does not make any difference.
Mr. FITZGERALD-KENNEY
If the Deputy gives me notice of any place in Waterford, I will inquire into it. The Deputy does not seem to be sure of his own case.
SEAN MAC AN tSAOI
asked the Minister for Justice whether, following a burglary at Templeogue Post Office on the 4th November, 1927, the homes of Michael James Rafferty, of Larkfield, Avenue Road, Kimmage; Sidney and Vincent Smith, of Everton, Templeogue; James Condon, Tallaght; James Nolan, Knocklyon Cottages, Templeogue; Charles Vaughan and James Murphy, Templeogue, and others, have been frequently raided by officers of the C.I.D. and the persons themselves arrested on the alleged grounds that they were suspected of complicity in certain criminal offences, and whether anything was found to justify these arrests and raids.
Mr. FITZGERALD-KENNEY
Following the burglary at Templeogue Post Office on the 28th October last the local Gardá received information as a result of which they thought it proper to question John Murphy of Templeogue. Accordingly, a Sergeant and two Guards visited his house at 7.45 a.m. and informed Mrs. Murphy that they wished to interrogate her son. Murphy, who was in bed, got up and accompanied the Guards to Terenure Station and having accounted for his movements he was allowed to go. He was not ill-treated, his house was not raided and he made no complaints to the police.
The house of Charles Vaughan was visited and inquiries made regarding his son, Charles. The Guards were informed that he was living at 22 Ashfield Road, Ranelagh. They did not search the house, and on their way back to the station they met Charles Vaughan, Junior, and requested him to accompany them to Terenure Station to give an account of his movements on the night of the burglary. He accompanied the Guards to the station and was allowed to go after he had accounted for his movements on the night in question.
The houses of Michael James Rafferty or James Condon were not visited.
All the inquiries were made by members of the Uniform Branch and the Detective Branch was not concerned in the case at any time. The only house that was searched was the residence of Vincent and Sidney Smith and the search was properly carried out on the authority of a search warrant.
Mr. MacENTEE
Can the Minister state for the information of this House how many times the dwellings of the people mentioned in the question have been raided by the members of the Gárda Síochána?
Mr. FITZGERALD-KENNEY
No, I cannot. If the Deputy wishes that information he can put down a question.
Mr. CORRY
Will the Minister print his reply in black and white as a cut and dried answer?
Mr. FITZGERALD-KENNEY
If it would answer all the Deputy's questions it might be rather useful.