I beg to move: That this Bill be received for final consideration.
SLAUGHTERED ANIMALS (COMPENSATION) BILL, 1928—REPORT STAGE.
Mr. HOGAN
This Bill seems to be a step in the right direction, and it is time that some steps be taken to encourage and protect what is supposed to be a most important trade. It will chiefly affect store cattle and, of course, that trade, except for this particular year, seems to be the most important trade of all. As we are not perhaps in a position to complete or fatten all our stores, we are compelled to export most of them. The amendments that were introduced in connection with the Bill seemed to be workable and well-advised. As far as sheep are concerned, I do not suppose we export many store sheep. I do not know how many, but I believe the number is very small. Similarly in regard to store pigs. There is no mention made of horses. I do not know if horses get foot-and-mouth disease.
Mr. HOGAN
They do not.
Mr. O'REILLY
I suppose they do not. It will, as I say, chiefly affect the question of store cattle and, as those traders have suffered a great deal and had great difficulties put in their way owing to the particular measure adopted, this Bill certainly will be a great relief to them.
took the Chair.
Mr. O'REILLY
I am sure it will also have the effect of a better and more severe veterinary inspection at the ports. That matter does not always get the attention it deserves. In regard to the fat cattle trade, it is a matter of the very greatest importance, because somehow or other tubercular cattle are allowed to go through the ports from time to time. The Bill, as I said previously, is, no doubt, a great boon. It is a pity, I think, that it could not go a step further, but, as the Minister explained, that perhaps would be going too far. Owing to detention, the dealers in cattle sometimes suffer very serious financial losses. At times the periods of detention are unduly prolonged. It would be a great thing if this detention could be obviated, when we consider that those concerned are not getting any particular relief under this Bill. I hope that, as a result of this Bill, the inspections at the ports will be more severe than they have been in the past. It is very detrimental, no doubt, to the cattle trade of this country when animals from Ireland are shown in the markets suffering, perhaps, from tuberculosis. The dealers at the fairs buy these animals rather cheaply and sell them at a greater profit than if they had bought good cattle.
Mr. HOGAN
Surely that has got nothing to do with this Bill?
Mr. O'REILLY
It is to be hoped that through the operations of this Bill that sort of thing will be stopped. The stamps are to cost 2½d. and if, as we hope, we have not an outbreak of foot and mouth disease in the country for a great many years, the money spent on these stamps will amount to a considerable sum. It was strange, for instance, that during the war we had no outbreak of foot and mouth disease here. I suppose we have to thank Providence for that, but other people might suggest other reasons for it. At all events, a good deal of money will accumulate through the operation of this system in regard to the stamps, so that the trustees will have sufficient funds at their disposal to meet a very serious outbreak of disease if, unhappily, such a thing should occur. These outbreaks in England, and sometimes in this country, result in very serious losses, especially in the districts and counties where people go in for the feeding of store cattle. It is the custom with dealers, if there is a rumour of an outbreak of foot and mouth disease to go around and make large purchases. Occasionally the producers who sell their stock in such circumstances suffer great losses, while the dealers reap great profits. It would be a great thing if we could devise some means of giving the unfortunate producer a more stable market than he has at present.
In the agricultural line, at all events, the producer suffers most. All the misfortune that occurs seems to fall back on him. This measure may, perhaps, partly save him. I hope it is not the last attempt that we will have to save him. I hope that Bills such as this will continue to be brought in, and that under them some attempt will be made to recoup producers for the losses they have incurred during the last five, six or seven years. The outlook has improved somewhat as regards the fat cattle. As regards store cattle, in general we are not able to turn them out in a fit condition. The Scotsmen think that they are not far enough advanced, and sometimes they are not inclined to pay the price that we here think we should get for them. I suppose that is due to the fact that we are not able to feed them well enough. The result, at any rate, is that the country suffers a great loss.
Mr. HOGAN
I would like to ask if this rather interesting discussion is in order. The fact is that we export more store cattle than we do fat cattle. I ask if all this is relevant to a Bill which proposes to provide compensation for cattle slaughtered?
Mr. O'REILLY
I only want to show the different classes of stock that the Bill affects. It does not practically affect the fat cattle at all.
At this stage the Deputy cannot argue on what is not in the Bill. He can only argue as to what is in the Bill. Certainly, the price which Scotch buyers pay for Irish cattle is not relevant.
Mr. O'REILLY
There is no doubt but that the intention of the Bill is to relieve the store cattle trade. The fat cattle trade does not suffer so much in that way. On the question of pigs, I do not say that it will affect pigs so much, because we do not export pigs to any great extent. For some years past we have exported more pork than pigs. Pork, I suppose, was the fashionable trade, so that the numbers of store pigs——
Is there anything in the Bill about store pigs?
Mr. O'REILLY
There is about pigs.
Mr. HOGAN
The Bill deals with pigs, store pigs and other pigs, slaughtered because they have contracted foot and mouth disease.
Are they fat or store pigs?
Mr. HOGAN
That does not arise. This interesting but rather prosaic discussion has got absolutely nothing to do with the Bill. I understand the Deputy's difficulties, and I make allowance for that.
Mr. O'REILLY
You admit that the majority of fat pigs are slaughtered right away. Store pigs travel through the country, and they are liable to detention and to contract the disease and be slaughtered.
Mr. HOGAN
Do we export store pigs to England?
That question does not arise.
Mr. O'REILLY
We certainly export store pigs.
The question of the export of store pigs does not arise.
Mr. O'REILLY
Cannot the Bill as it stands and the benefits of it be discussed?
Certainly.
Mr. O'REILLY
That is what I am trying to do, defining the animals that would benefit by the Bill.
The Deputy is trying to waste time, and he knows it.
Mr. O'REILLY
As to that, it is not a bad policy to ask the House to go a little bit slow. It is a good thing to try and understand exactly what we are doing, and from that point of view I think there is a good deal of reason on my side. I do not believe all the Deputies are engaged in the cattle or pig trade, and I think it is advisable they should understand the position and explain to the people in the trade how matters stand.
I am not concerned with what Deputies are in the cattle or pig trade.
The Deputy took the strands out of his eyes on the Report Stage.
Mr. O'REILLY
I do not think I had any strands on my eyes on the Report Stage. I do not suppose it makes any difference anyway. As to the method of assessment, it is most important, and is a thing that might lead to serious abuses. I believe the amendment brought in to have cattle slaughtered, the bodies sold and the prices paid to the trustees, is a good one. The trustees, I take it, will pay the value assessed to the owner. That is a very wise amendment, and it will prevent a good deal of abuse which might arise. In the cattle trade, and I suppose in other trades, everything does not go perfectly straight. The Bill is guarding against everything, and even the other Government in this country has taken steps to adopt a Bill on the same lines as this, so that there will be no hardship as far as that is concerned. It seemed to me as if there was a tendency to draw all the traffic to the Dublin Port, and that might not be a bad thing, and then Dublin would nearly have all the good things. I hope other disabilities the trade suffers from will also be attended to.
Question:—"That the Bill be received for final consideration"—put and agreed to.
Fifth Stage ordered for Friday, 15th June.