Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 27 Feb 1929

Vol. 28 No. 4

Private Deputies Business. - Adjournment Debate—Distress in West Cork.

Mr. Mullins

A Leas-Chinn Comhairle, I take advantage of the motion for the adjournment to call attention to the position which exists in regard to distress and unemployment in a considerable portion of the constituency which I represent. Last night there was a meeting in the Mansion House in Dublin to call attention to the position of the Gaeltacht, and the need for immediate action if the Irish language and the Irish-speaking people who are still left in Ireland are to be saved for the future welfare of the nation. One of the speakers at that meeting said a thing which applies with equal force to the Gaeltacht of which I am telling you in this debate. Father Malachy Brennan, speaking to a resolution, declared that the Galway Gaeltacht was as nature left it despite six years of native government. Nothing whatever had been done for the people by the native government, and anything that had been done was done by the old Congested Districts Board under the British regime. That applies with equal force to the people of the Bere peninsula, which is practically 85 to 90 per cent. an Irish-speaking area. This question which I asked the Minister for Fisheries to-day was asked by me on 29th February, 1928, and the answer I received at that time was as follows:—

"The Land Commission do not propose undertaking the construction of the road. The cost of construction is considered too great as compared with any benefits that might be provided for the agricultural community of the district."

The answer I received to-day was:

"I cannot add anything to the reply given the Deputy last year."

Mark one phrase in the answer to the question of last year. "The cost of construction is considered too great as compared with any benefits that might be provided for the agricultural community." Evidently the Minister for Fisheries has the same mentality as Deputy Cooper exhibited in the cross questioning a few moments ago. The benefits that would accrue and that certainly are very desirable if this road was taken into consideration by the Land Commission or whatever authority is directly responsible are the benefits of saving the lives of native Irish speakers and of giving them an opportunity to work instead of doles, giving them an opportunity of looking forward to some possibility of a livelihood in the future. This road is in a portion of the parish of Adrigole where there is acute distress and poverty.

The meeting last night demanded that the Government take action in regard to the position of the Gaeltacht. I am very much afraid that if their attitude towards this part of the Gaeltacht is in keeping with their attitude towards the Gaeltacht in general it will be, in a short time, only another link in our chain of historic memories of past glories. This road was commenced about 1846 as relief work during the famine of that year. Over 80 years have elapsed, and during the last five years petition after petition has been sent to the Local Government Department and the Land Commission appealing on behalf of the people in that district for a grant to enable the completion of the road to be undertaken. It is completed up to portion of the Kerry-Pass on the Cork side and from Lauragh to Kerry up another portion of the mountains on the other side. The heavy work of laying out was undertaken and completed a good many years ago, including a bridge over the river which is still in good condition, and which would not involve any tremendous extra expense.

The ex-Governor-General, Mr. Healy, secured a grant about 30 years ago from the British Parliament to complete the work. Unfortunately, through influences directed against it, it was diverted to other purposes. About three weeks ago the Adrigole Distress Committee sent a memorandum to the Land Commission and the Department of Local Government pointing out the advantage it would be to the people of that district if the road were completed, and that the work was urgently required in that area. Surely, the local Distress Committee ought to know something about the conditions prevailing there. After the unfortunate occurrence that took place there in 1927 the same appeal was made to the Department to proceed with the construction of this road. Evidently the Minister at that time was of the same mind as he is to-day, that the benefits, which include the saving of human life, would not compensate him for the cost that might be incurred in constructing the road. If the construction of this road were undertaken it would mean that work which is very badly needed would be given in the western end of the parish of Adrigole, where the O'Sullivan tragedy occurred in 1927, and where a recent death occurred from causes which are only too well known to the Deputies in this House. The work on the other main road from Glengarriff to Adrigole and Adrigole to Glengarriff would provide work for the people at the other end of the parish. The employment that would be given is badly needed.

The Minister may try to disillusion the Dáil as to the want, distress and unemployment that exist in that area. I have here before me a resolution from no less an authority than a branch of the Minister's own political organisation. Speaking in the names of responsible public men and under the title of Cumann na nGaedheal, the Bantry (West Cork) Executive, two weeks ago, sent forward to the Department concerned the following resolution:—

"That this Cumann is deeply concerned regarding the destitution now prevalent in the Adrigole district where dozens of families are in the most extreme poverty bordering on starvation. We earnestly appeal to the Ministry of Local Government to come to the relief of these unfortunate people at once by having a grant made towards the steam-rolling of the road between Glengarriff and Adrigole. This is a district that must always appeal to the Government for help in the way of employment. The completing of the road between Adrigole and Lauragh which has been referred to in every appeal to the Minister for some years past is also a work that should appeal to him at the present time. Home assistance can only reach very few of the families who want work not relief. The making of a grant towards the purchasing of seed for spring sowing would be also very much needed and appreciated."

A resolution passed by the Bantry Branch of the Cumann na nGaedheal certainly cannot be ignored by the Government on the ground that it is Opposition propaganda.

To come back to the general question, in the course of the debate on the Gaeltacht here last year, the Minister for Local Government, referring to paragraphs 185 and 186 of the Gaeltacht Commission Report, regarding the setting up of a special department to look after the Gaeltacht said: "The Ministry of Fisheries would be re-organised, made a Department of Lands and Fisheries and given control of the Land Commission and fishery work and of all the additional things that might in any way be required to be carried out specially in the Irish-speaking districts."

Speaking further, he stated: "The new Ministry will have much more to do than the other two Ministries separately—and the new Ministry will be provided with the necessary staff and there will be additional funds in its hands to carry out the additional work necessary in the Gaeltacht."

We were led to expect that under the Ministers and Secretaries Bill— during the Second Stage debate— the problem of the economic position of the Gaeltacht would be tackled in a courageous and adequate manner by the new Ministry, which had been more or less established to look after the Gaeltacht. The Minister for Agriculture, speaking on the Ministers and Secretaries Bill, stated:

"This motion does not re-establish the Congested Districts Board, but it gives a body which is more effective for its purposes than the old C.D.B. was."

He stated, further, that the advantage of that would be that you would have in the House a Minister that could be challenged on every aspect of these things. What has been done since the Ministers and Secretaries Bill was passed to alleviate or improve, in any way, the position of the people in the Gaeltacht? Take that one area alone—West Cork. Absolutely nothing has been done. It seems that it requires something in the nature of a tragedy to call the attention of the Government to the position that exists in these Irish-speaking areas before any action will be taken. It will be remembered that two years ago, when the unfortunate event occurred to which so much publicity was directed, the Land Commission indulged in a great flourish of trumpets. They undertook a series of small works—the making of bog roads and that sort of thing in that district. The employment given was not very lengthy, and when these works were finished nothing at all was done for practically two years. It was only when another sad event occurred that the Land Commission announced that a grant of about £1,000 had been given in the district in which distress is most acute, but for a great portion of the south-western seaboard it seems to me that it requires a tragedy to draw the attention of the Department to the necessity to take some action to provide work for the people in those areas. There is no doubt about it that Adrigole, which was classed by the Gaeltacht Commission as one of the most Gaelicspeaking areas is in a dire position of want, and the people there have been so sceptical as a result of promises broken and hopes shattered that it is no wonder they despair of anything ever coming to alleviate their sufferings.

There is one other point, in connection with that, that I should like to bring to the notice of the Parliamentary Secretary, and that is that the Minister for Local Government further in his speech on the Gaeltacht debate stated:—

If additional services are to be provided or additional facilities given for the improvement of houses in the Irish-speaking districts, services which are not provided throughout the country as a whole—these additional services and moneys will be available through the new Ministry.

I presume since the Ministers and Secretaries Act was passed and the Gaeltacht was given more or less in charge of the Department of Fisheries, that the additional services and the additional moneys required therefor are at the disposal of the Department of Lands and Fisheries.

I wonder what, if anything, has been done to put the powers given under that Act into practical operation? Many promises were made during the Gaeltacht debate and the debate when the Ministers and Secretaries Act was going through this House as to the glorious future before the Gaeltacht when all the Government services dealing with it had been co-ordinated under one Ministry as a result of the passing of that Act. What has been done? Anybody who knows the Gaeltacht and the position there will realise that nothing has been done to alleviate the want.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I think the Deputy ought to confine himself to the particular matter raised in his question rather than to the general question of the Gaeltacht.

Mr. Mullins

I submit that this question bears extensively on the Gaeltacht which is the portion of the country referred to in my question to-day, and that I am at liberty to question the Minister with reference to it.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I have already given the Deputy very great liberty, and I now wish to point out to him that he can only deal with the matter which arises out of the question that he had down on to-day's Order Paper. I did not wish to confine him too much when dealing with that matter, but the position is that we cannot have a general debate.

Mr. Mullins

Since the Minister for Lands and Fisheries is responsible for this portion of the country, I thought it would be quite in order for me to refer, in general terms, to the position in the Gaeltacht. The Kerry-Pass road, which I have asked the Minister to take steps to construct, is a work that is badly wanted. I am sure there are other Deputies here who will bear me out in that. If the Land Commission, or the Department concerned, believe that by dishing out doles like soup, as they have been doing in that district by means of small road grants and that sort of thing, that they are going, temporarily, to shelve this problem, I tell them that they are mistaken. The distress that prevails in that area is acute. The conditions there are typical of the whole of the Berehaven peninsula. What I am asking now is, that some definite action be taken to carry out the promises made in the various debates to which I have referred, and that some hope be given to the people down there. I said yesterday in another place that the best and most fruitful way for sowing the seeds of social revolution was by allowing bad economic conditions to prevail. You have such conditions in the district to which I am referring. If the Government, or the Department concerned, do not take some action in the interests of the people down there, then, in my opinion, they will be guilty of manslaughter if any further tragedies occur in that area through want of work or lack of nourishment.

Mr. T. O'Donovan

I desire to say a word on this. I am sure that the House has a good deal of sympathy with the matter raised by Deputy Mullins, and that it would like to see something done for the poor congested areas. With regard to the question of this road, I have been one of the representatives of West Cork in this House during the past six years. I have visited the area frequently and have been in touch with most of the people there. During all that time I only met one man who put up this hare-brained scheme with regard to this road. If Deputy Mullins had suggested some other schemes, such as afforestation, poultry rearing, or something that would be reproductive, I would have more sympathy with him and would certainly back him up in seeing that the Department responsible would be urged to carry them out. During the past six years I and a number of Deputies associated with me have approached the Land Commission frequently when work was required not only in that particular area but over the whole congested area of West Cork. I must say that I think the Land Commission met the people fairly and squarely. The Land Commission has endeavoured to do its part in relieving the distress that prevails in that area.

If a large sum of money were to be expended on this Kerry-Pass road only a small area in one parish would be likely to benefit. Instead of spending a large sum of money on that particular work I would prefer to see smaller sums expended all over the Berehaven peninsula. If Deputy Mullins were to put up a scheme of that description I would support him. I hold that the Land Commission has done and is doing its bit to relieve the want and the distress that prevails in that portion of the constituency.

Mr. T. Sheehy (Cork)

I wish to state, in justice to the Government, that before the Christmas adjournment four Deputies from West Cork —Deputies Jasper Wolfe, Murphy, Donovan and myself—waited on the Minister for Finance. He received us in a most sympathetic manner. Subsequent to the interview a grant of £1,000 odd was made for necessitous areas in which it was necessary to provide assistance for poor people. I want to say that we drew his attention to other deserving cases that unfortunately were left out of the list which the grant covered. Speaking for myself and those associated with me on that occasion, I wish to acknowledge that we were well received, and that as a result of our visit some good was accomplished. I have listened carefully to Deputy Mullins to-night. His denunciation of the Land Commission, the Government and everything associated with it was most dispiriting.

To my mind the Government and the Land Commission, and every other department of the State would be in a far better position to give help to the poor areas along our seaboard but for the ridiculous and nonsensical policy preached by Deputy Mullins all over the country. He is distracting the people by his shouts for a Republic, and is doing everything to embarrass the efforts of the Government to provide assistance for our people by his agitation and his propaganda in the country. As far as one West Cork Deputy is concerned, I wish to say now that I am not going to enlist under the banner of Deputy Mullins, because I know that he is not sincere in this attack, in his propaganda or anxiety about this road, but that what he is anxious about is to thwart the Government and, if possible, to run it out of office. As far as his policy is concerned, it will not cut much for the poor people of West Cork. I, for one, have faith in the Government and in the Land Commission. I realise fully what they have done, and what they are endeavouring to do. I know the difficulties under which they are labouring. I know that there is an array of talent at the other side of the House bent on what? Coming to the rescue of our poor people? Not at all, but trying to destroy the power and the policy of the Government that is endeavouring to keep the people in their homes.

Mr. Roddy

Deputy Mullins, realising apparently the weakness of the case he had to make for the proposal referred to in his question, tried to shift the discussion on to another plane until he was called to order by the Leas-Cheann Comhairle. He is obviously alone in his advocacy of that particular work.

Mr. Mullins

On a point of order, will the Parliamentary Secretary state whether I am alone when responsible public individuals in that area, including the Distress Committee of Adrigole, recommended it?

Mr. Roddy

They have not recommended it, as far as I am aware. I said the Deputy was alone in his advocacy of this particular work. He is. I have noticed that other Deputies present this evening have remained silent on this issue. As a matter of fact, I know from investigations we have made locally that there are only two people in that area who have so far advocated the construction of this road. One is a publican, who, I am sure, is not altogether disinterested, and the other is a local school teacher who has given the proposal only half-hearted support. It should be perfectly apparent to Deputy Mullins that this is not work for the Land Commission to undertake.

Mr. Mullins

Why is it not?

Mr. Roddy

It has been reported on by our inspectors on at least three different occasions, and on each occasion the Commissioners felt that it was not their business to undertake work of this kind. The engineer in his last report states:—

The entire length of the new road to be constructed is approximately four and a half miles. The engineering difficulties are very great, as the proposed and only site is of a difficult nature, being steep, rugged mountain, with deep ravines and precipitous rock, which will entail trunking, retaining walls, and blasting of solid rock for a distance of one and a half miles.

Work of this kind would require the most skilled engineering to be carried out successfully, and would require the supervision of engineers that we have not got in the Land Commission. The engineer in his report further stated that the cost of the road would amount to £10,000, and that it is quite possible it would cost something between £15,000 and £20,000. The expenditure of that money would be purely speculative. It would be of no agricultural advantage. The proposed road would pass through a country that is sparsely populated. It is doubtful if when completed the road would be of any advantage in attracting tourists to the area. This is work that should be undertaken either by the county council or the Department of Local Government. It is not work the Land Commission should undertake. We are undoubtedly voting monies every year for expenditure on improvement works, but such money must be spent for the benefit and development of estates. At the present time we are spending a very substantial sum of money in this area for the purpose of relieving the distress that exists. According to our inspector's report, Deputy Mullins has considerably exaggerated the extent of the distress in that district. In January one of our inspectors visited the area, and he knows the district even better than Deputy Mullins. He states that:—

"With the exception of a few small fishing communities the district of West Cork extending from Clonakilty to Bantry is, from an agricultural point of view, fairly economic."

We are spending substantial sums of money on estates work.

Mr. Mullins

If that inspector is typical of others it is no wonder that things are in a mess.

Mr. Roddy

It is admitted by people from the area whom I have met during the past couple of months that the economic position is no worse this year than last year, in most areas. The economic position is somewhat better. As Deputy Mullins knows, the economic condition in these particular areas was never very high. I do not see what the Land Commission can do to improve the economic standard in these areas.

In the very bad areas we are spending substantial sums of money for the purpose of relieving distress. Our inspectors and influential local people are satisfied that the money we are spending is sufficient to meet the distress. Last year when the economic position was much worse we spent about £1,200 on various estate works. That money was considered adequate to meet the needs of the case at that time. We are spending practically the same amount of money at present. I am quite satisfied that that money is sufficient to deal with any distress that exists in that area. This particular estate, the Leigh-White, I think, is the second largest estate the Land Commission has dealt with, and more money has been spent on improvement works on that estate than on any other estate the Land Commission has dealt with so far. During the last four or five years something like £25,000 has been spent on improvement works on that estate, and a good portion of that money has been spent on poor areas like Castletown Berehaven, where for the past two years a sum of £2,000 odd has been spent on improving the houses there.

Mr. Mullins

The houses do not show much sign of improvement.

Mr. Roddy

In other areas substantial sums have been spent from time to time. The Land Commission cannot possibly undertake this work. It is for the county council or the Department of Local Government to undertake it, but not the Land Commission.

Mr. Mullins

The Parliamentary Secretary says that the Land Commission cannot undertake the work because it is work for other Departments. If that is so, what is all this stuff about the Ministers and Secretaries Act and setting up a Department for the Gaeltacht? What about the money for special economic work mentioned by the Minister for Local Government? Is not the Land Commission in charge of the Gaeltacht?

Mr. Roddy

I hope when relief schemes are undertaken they will be of a constructive character, and not wild cat schemes such as that suggested by the Deputy.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.55 p.m. until Thursday, at 3 p.m.