I cannot agree with the view of the Deputy that it is not desirable to encourage the building of three-roomed houses. The figures given last night by the Minister as to the small number of three-roomed houses that had been erected under previous Acts are rather surprising. I thought that though the whole object of the Bills we did pass was to encourage the building of five-roomed houses, that a larger number of three-roomed houses had been built. The position, as I pointed out on the Second Reading, is largely an economic one. We would all like to see these people housed in five-roomed houses. They would like to be in five-roomed houses themselves.
All of us would like to occupy a better house than we occupy at the moment. But we cannot afford it. You are seeking to force from these people a rent they cannot afford to pay. A five-roomed house at the moment costs anything from 15/- to 20/- a week. If we force the man with a large family and a small income to pay that rent the family is called upon to make very considerable sacrifices in other directions. How many are there that are unable to make sacrifices? What is the result? We all recognise that the problem is a serious one at the moment, and in order to get accommodation these people take these four and five-roomed houses over, and after they are in them for a short time they find that they are unable to pay high rents. Then they start sub-letting. I am only talking now of what is the common experience of those engaged in the housing problem. In those five-roomed houses in a considerable number of cases, as many as three rooms out of the five are sub-let, and in a large number of cases as many as two rooms out of the five are sub-let. Into those rooms you are bringing families with large numbers of children. And that is what the Deputies on the other side tell us is the solution of the housing problem.
My solution is quite on other lines. I would urge that while building is as expensive as it is at the moment it would be much more desirable, in view of the urgency of the problem, to get a larger number of small houses. These three-roomed houses can be let at rents under 10/- per week. That is within the ability of a great number of these poor people to meet. If you were to take the views of these poor people I am sure the great mass of them would prefer to be comfortably housed in a three-roomed house of their own, rather than to be forced to occupy a five-roomed house where they would have to sub-let two or three of the rooms. I have referred to this problem already on the Second Reading, and I was in very considerable doubt as to whether this matter arose at all, or whether it was in order on the Report Stage of the Bill.
I hope that this Bill as it stands, notwithstanding the defects that I have referred to, will not be further mutilated by continuing to carry on under this Bill the defects of its predecessors. The Minister pointed out that even under this Bill he has to approve of the different schemes, and if these schemes do not, in his opinion, embody a sufficient number of four and five-roomed houses, according to the area and the circumstances of the area and the needs of the area, he need not approve of them. To my mind, that is an ample safeguard to meet the objections that the Deputies on the other side put forward.
I would like, in view of the economic seriousness of the problem, to say a word about getting down the cost of living. I say that, because if we are to get rid of unemployment in this country we must face the fact that we must get down the cost of living. If we cannot get down the cost of living, we cannot get down the cost of wages and the cost of production, and if you cannot produce cheaply you cannot sell. You have got to face that, and while I am as anxious as any Deputy in this House to see every man comfortably housed, we cannot get away from this economic problem. There is no use in saying to a man "Here is a house for 15/- a week" when he cannot afford to pay more than 10/- a week. Even though the Minister has this power, I am anxious that he should use that power wisely, and as long as these circumstances prevail he should try to get more of the three-roomed houses than we have at the moment, because under the existing circumstances these are the only types of houses for which the poor man can pay.