Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Friday, 6 Dec 1929

Vol. 32 No. 15

Housing (Gaeltacht) Bill, 1929—Money Resolution.

The Dáil went into Committee on Finance.

Minister for Finance (Mr. Blythe)

I move:

"Chun críche aon Achta rithfear sa tSiosón so chun tógáil agus feabhsú tithe comhnaithe sa Ghaeltacht do chur in usacht agus chun cóiríocht a bheidh ag gabháil leis na tithe comhnaithe sin d'éanlaithe clóis agus do mhuca do sholáthar agus chun na gcrícheanna san a údarú go dtabharfaí deontaisí agus iasachtaí do dhaoine sa Ghaeltacht mar chabhair chun tithe comhnaithe dhóibh féin agus an chóiríocht san roimhráite a bheidh ag gabháil leo san do thógáil no d'fheabhsú iad féin agus chun socruithe eile do déanamh a bhaineas leis na nithe roimhráite, go bhfuil sé oiriúnach a údarú go n-íocfaí amach as airgead a sholáthróidh an tOireachtas (a) suimeanna nách mó le chéile ná suim Dhá Chéad is Caoga Míle Punt i dtaobh deontaisí agus iasachtaí fén Acht san, agus (b) aon chostaisí fé n-a raghfar ag cur an Achta san in éifeacht.

That for the purpose of any Act of the present Session to facilitate the erection and improvement of dwelling-houses in the Gaeltacht and the provision of such dwelling-houses with ancillary accommodation for domestic poultry and pigs and for those purposes to authorise the making of grants and loans to persons in the Gaeltacht towards the erection or improvement by them of dwelling-houses for their own use and of such ancillary accommodation as aforesaid, and to make other provisions incidental to the matters aforesaid, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of moneys to be provided by the Oireachtas of (a) sums not exceeding in the aggregate the sum of Two Hundred and Fifty Thousand Pounds in respect of grants and loans under such Act, and (b) any expenses incurred in carrying such Act into effect."

The main expenditure is set down in the Bill. The incidental expenses are difficult to estimate, but they would be very minor sums in comparison with the £250,000 that would be required. These expenses will be with regard to the necessary staff for making inspections and administering the Act.

Mr. Derrig

I move:—

To insert after the word "pigs" the words "and other classes of live stock."

I think we can all realise from the map which is available that it should take far more than the Minister proposes to allot to solve the difficulties of the housing problem in these areas. The Minister proposes to make the giving of grants or loans for houses dependent on the recipients making arrangements to have accommodation made either for poultry or pigs.

We all realise that poultry and pigs are very important, and are very remunerative if they are handled and organised properly. The trouble is that both require a good deal of expenditure. Feeding stuffs have to be purchased and substantial buildings and accommodation provided where people go in for pigs or poultry. Then we have the position that in those areas the people are largely a pastoral people. They have been in the habit of rearing young cattle and calves for sale to live stock people in other parts of the country. I think it might be said that the Gaeltacht existed principally on this small live stock industry, the selling of young cattle to stock breeders in other parts, and the exporting of stock. We are anxious to get the Minister to make provision for the accommodation of cattle or other stock as well as pigs and poultry. Pigs and poultry are an entirely new industry, which will have to be organised in many areas, and that will take time. In my opinion the conditions in the Gaeltacht are such that it will take a considerable time before the same amount of advantage will accrue there from the pig or the poultry industry as in other places. The accommodation is not there for cattle, and if the old houses are there, as they are in a great many cases owing to the population having cleared out, I think these houses could be made into cow houses and that some allowance for that should be made in the Bill.

We must remember that a considerable amount of money is still granted for agricultural schemes in the old congested areas. I think nearly £40,000 is spent chiefly on the improvement of live stock. If we are spending that amount annually on the improvement of live stock, not necessarily confined to poultry or pigs, we ought to make provision for the housing of the live stock. As far as I know there is not any adequate alternative provision for the housing of cattle. The loans that the Board of Works gave have now ceased. I think nobody will maintain that the Agricultural Credit Corporation is capable of dealing with this matter in the Gaeltacht. It may be able to do so in other areas, but in the circumstances I think that Corporation cannot reach the poorer areas. The Land Commission used to do something towards providing stabling accommodation, but I think its funds are exhausted. It may still have the powers over whatever housing and improvement schemes the old Congested Districts Board had, but I think it is impossible for the Land Commission to carry on these schemes, because it has not the money. If we are going to make provision in this Bill, not alone for housing the people but for ancillary housing accommodation for stock, I put it to the House that we cannot overlook the provision of accommodation for cattle.

Mr. Kilroy

Cattle are to a large extent dealt with in the poorer districts in the west. As I stated when the Bill was introduced, most of the people in the Gaeltacht have one or two cows, and it follows that they will have calves from time to time, at least one or two. It is therefore necessary to provide accommodation for these animals. There is nothing in the Bill making provision for such accommodation. I do not altogether agree with Deputy Derrig and with the Minister when they stated that the old houses may be sufficient to accommodate live stock, because the small sum of £250,000 is not enough to remedy the bad conditions that exist in the Gaeltacht so far as sanitation and such matters are concerned. I hold that one of the main objects of the Minister should be to remedy such a terrible evil that arises from the fact that cattle are largely housed in the dwelling-houses in the west, and I presume in other parts of Ireland. I say that £250,000 would not be able to do that. It will be only able to touch as it were on the fringe of the conditions that exist and I suggest that an amendment should be introduced to provide facilities for the construction of out-houses, because new houses will not be built to any large extent in such a huge area as the Gaeltacht comprises. If such an amendment were introduced it would facilitate the improvement of the sanitary conditions which so badly require looking after. It may be held that the old houses now occupied by the people, would remedy the defect, but I think that only a small number of the people will move into new houses. If the sanitary conditions are to be improved, houses other than the old ones would be necessary.

Minister for Lands and Fisheries (Mr. Lynch)

I am sorry I cannot accept the amendment. Deputy Kilroy stresses the meagreness of the £250,000 provided under the Bill. The extension of the operations of that quarter million would to a large extent nullify its value by watering down the good it would do. Whether or not it is desirable that there should be provision for cattle is another matter. It is not true to say that generally speaking there is no accommodation for cattle, on the small holdings in the Gaeltacht. In most cases I think they have some accommodation where there is any stock at all. On the Second Reading I read out figures pointing to the almost entire lack of accommodation for poultry or pigs. It is perfectly true to say, perhaps, that in many cases the cattle are housed in the dwelling-houses, but I should say that now-a-days that is becoming rather the exception than the rule. This matter was very carefully considered for many months by a committee. This Bill is not actually the child of my Department alone. The Bill was practically brought up in its present form by a sub-committee of the Inter-Departmental Committee that is dealing with the economic position in the Gaeltacht. Every matter of that kind, including the question of the housing of cattle, was considered by that sub-committee, and they felt that it would be better to confine the sum of £250,000 to the most necessitous cases, that where the greater necessity lay, there the money should go, and in their view the greater necessity lay, first in the provision of dwelling-houses, and second, poultry and pig houses, to the exclusion of cattle. Of course that may be another day's work.

Mr. Derrig

Did the Minister or his officials consult with people in the Gaeltacht area when they made that decision?

Mr. Lynch

Most of the officials concerned in this matter knew the Gaeltacht pretty intimately. Many of them have had long years of service there in one department or another. The persons at the very bottom rung of the ladder whom we hope to reach by this Bill will not have any live stock. Those who have live stock other than poultry and pigs are usually persons who might be able to afford to take advantage of Housing Acts other than this one. The question of the old houses arises. Where a new building will be put up it is almost certain that the old house will be used for the accommodation of the cattle, the horse, mule or donkey. Anyone who has lived in the Gaeltacht, and who has seen new houses going up, knows that the old houses have been used for such a purpose. We give a grant in the Bill for the demolition of the old houses for fear that other persons might come in and live in them and perpetuate the existing insanitary conditions. In fact, what will happen will be that the people will not look for that demolition grant. They will use the old houses for cattle. I am satisfied that this is far more important—and the Department of Agriculture has been consulted in this matter. Deputy Derrig pointed out that poultry and pigs require a good deal of expenditure. The fact is that the keeping of poultry requires very little capital. The expenditure is not very serious. The Department of Agriculture agree that the best stock for the persons for whom we intend this Bill is poultry and pigs, rather than cattle.

Dr. Tubridy

I think that the Minister has made a few misstatements that I can contradict. He said that the custom of keeping cattle in the houses in the Gaeltacht does not exist now to any great extent. I come from the Gaeltacht, and it is my duty to inspect houses and to send sanitary reports. The reason perhaps why the idea may now be held by the Local Government Department that cattle are not kept in the dwelling-houses is due to the fact that when a sub-sanitary officer finds cattle in a house it is his duty to report it to the local sanitary officer, and it is then the duty of the local sanitary officer to report it to the chief sanitary authority of the county. By the time that is done, the cattle have been removed from the house, with the result that no report about it goes to the Local Government Department. For that reason the Local Government Department may have intimated to the Minister that cattle are not kept in dwelling-houses to any great extent. But in the area from which I come most of the families keep cattle in the dwelling-houses. All over the area from Galway out towards the islands, and through the islands, the people do keep their cattle in the houses during the winter time, and I think that Deputy Mongan can confirm that. In the islands especially the custom is to do that.

Mr. Lynch

During the winter time?

Dr. Tubridy

Especially during the winter time.

Mr. Lynch

Have they alternative housing?

Dr. Tubridy

No, they keep them outside during the summer. I am sure that Deputy Mongan can confirm this, because he comes from the same area as I do. I would urge on the Minister that the necessity for stabling is acute because the cattle are kept in the dwelling-houses to a large extent. The Minister gave the impression that he believed that people who have a few cows or calves are the type which would be rich enough to have stabling of their own. That is not so. The fishing industry in Connemara is dead and the people there have now to depend principally on cattle, plus whatever income comes to them from America. The cattle industry is their only industry at present, and they are as particular about the health of the cattle as they are about their own health. They will not risk the health of the cattle, because if they did they might be taken up for land annuities, or if the shopkeeper came down on them they might be left derelict. They take very good care, consequently, that the cattle will not suffer any inconvenience and that their health will not be endangered. For that reason they keep them in the dwelling-houses during the winter, and they let them out in May or June. I had in my own experience a few years ago about eighty cases of typhoid fever in an island in the Rossmuck parish, and in every one of these cases the cattle were kept in the houses. What is the use of building new houses for the people if you do not give them some means of housing their cattle? I know for a fact that no matter what houses you build for these people they will put their cattle into them. They are not going to risk leaving their cattle out for the winter and having the shopkeeper or the Land Commission coming down on them.

It was suggested that the old houses could be used, but you must remember that most of the people will not build new houses; I suppose half of them will improve the houses that they already have. They will not want a building grant; they will want an improvement grant. The people who build new houses are actually coaxed to demolish their old houses, which they will do if they get a grant, but they will put their cattle into the new houses. I think that Deputy Mongan, or any other Deputy who lives in the Gaeltact, will agree that it is very essential to have some arrangement made for the housing of cattle, because otherwise you will not get rid of the dirty conditions you have at present.

Seosamh O Mongain

Níl fúm-sa ach cúpla focal a rá faoi'n leasú seo. Sé an faitchios atá orm fá'n leasú go mbh 'féidir go ndéanfaíi títhe do na beithidhigh ach nách ndéanfai teach ar bith dóbhtha féin. Bheinn sásta glaca leis an leas rún dá mbeadh airgead sáthach fairsing againn ach tá faitchios orm go ndéanfadh na daoine tithe do na beithidhibh ach nach ndéanfadh siad teach ar bith doibh féin. B'fhéidir nach bhfuil annseo ach an t-earlais agus go dtiocfaidh go leor 'na dhiaidh má thugann muid féin an chéad chuid den airgead mar chongnamh don Aire. Tá's agam go bhfuil croidhe maith ag an Aire agus tá súil agam go mbeidh sé in ann an méid seo airgid do mhéadú i gcionn tamaill agus go mbeidh na daoine in ann tithe do thógáil le h-aghaidh na beithidhigh freisin. Ach tá faitchíos orm nach ndéanfadh na daoine tithe dóibh féin faoi'n leasú mar tá sé.

An Dochtúir O Tiobraide

An féidir liom labhairt aris?

An Ceann Comhairle

Is féidir.

An Dochtúir O Tiobraide

Aontuighim go bhfuil cuid de'n cheart ag an Teachta O Mongáin. Ach sé mo bharúil, san am gcéana, go mb'fhearr tithe do thógáil le h-aghaidh beithidhigh na tithe nua do thógáil le h-aghaidh na daoine agus beithidhigh do chur isteach ionnta nuair a bheadh siad curtha suas aca. B'fhearr liomsa dá gcuirfí suas tithe do na beithidhigh ar dtús mar a bhfuil airgead ann le h-aghaidh an dá chineál tithe do chur suas.

Mr. Lynch

That would be another day's work and another Bill. I think that Deputy Mongan has hit the nail on the head. If more money were given than this £250,000 at another time to put up cow-houses in these places in the Gaeltacht, well and good, but for the best disposition of the present £250,000 that is available we are satisfied, after all the examination that could be given to the matter, that the best thing to do is, first to have the dwelling-houses for the people themselves, and then to have provision for poultry and pigs.

We are satisfied, after consulting the Department of Agriculture, that these are the stock that are best suited to these places in the Gaeltacht. A sum of £250,000 is not an unlimited amount. It is a sum that will come to an end and will come to an end fairly quickly as a result of the number of applications which I anticipate we will get. To try to spread that sum out for cow-houses in addition to poultry-houses and piggeries, means that you are watering down its effectiveness and the extent to which one can spread it over the Gaeltacht. You have only that sum of £250,000 and you must deal with what must be considered the greatest necessity. We hold that the greatest necessity first of all is houses for the people, where there are insanitary houses, and houses for the type of stock which the Department officials advise us will best pay the occupiers of these small holdings.

Mr. Derrig

The people themselves may think otherwise.

Dr. Tubridy

Do you not agree that it is useless to build good houses and let cattle into them?

Mr. Lynch

I do not see any way by which we can prevent people from letting cattle into that type of house. If persons, after they have built decent houses, allowed cattle into them we cannot stop them. There is no way we can stop it except by ordinary education.

Mr. Kilroy

Which does the Minister consider better—to build new houses for this money, which will relieve only a small fraction, or to assist people in cleaning the houses which they occupy at present?

Mr. Lynch

I am quite satisfied that the proposals which I have brought before the House are the most desirable proposals. I think the problem is being faced in the right way. It may not be an ideal solution, but I do not suppose that any proposal would be considered ideal by everyone. Every Deputy will have his own ideal way of doing a particular thing, but at any rate this matter was considered by a committee of persons who have long experience as servants of the State and many of whom have a long experience of service in the Gaeltacht. There were representatives from the Department of Agriculture, from the Local Government Department, from my own Department, from the Land Commission, the Local Government Department, from the Board of Works, etc. Having considered all the pros and cons—and mind you, this question and the question of the housing of cattle were questions which they discussed—after we got to a figure of £250,000 they decided that the things upon which that could best be expended were the three matters mentioned here—first, houses and the improvement of houses; secondly, poultry houses; and thirdly, piggeries.

Dr. Tubridy

These officials who are supposed to have a knowledge of the Gaeltacht very probably led the Minister into this belief.

Mr. Lynch

The Deputy must remember that I have a certain amount of knowledge of the Gaeltacht myself.

Dr. Tubridy

Perhaps so, but I would like to point out that the knowledge which the Minister possesses and the knowledge of his officials were gained during the daytime when the cattle were in the fields, but I was in these houses at night and I saw the cattle there.

Mr. Lynch

I wonder does the Deputy realise that I was born in the Gaeltacht.

Dr. Tubridy

Not the same Gaeltacht.

Mr. Lynch

It is actually the Gaeltacht, in portion of Iveragh. It is second to Carraroe, I suppose, but it is not very much behind it.

Mr. Law

I think we all realise that the Minister and his officials have given very great and very careful consideration to this problem, but I confess frankly that what the Minister has stated does not convince me. He points out very truly, and it is the basis of his whole argument, that there is a limited sum of £250,000 to be spent on housing in the Gaeltacht. He argued from that, that to spread it out over purposes other than those provided for in the Bill would be to diminish its effectiveness. I think that the Minister has lost sight of one fact and that his argument does not hold for the reason that there is nothing in the Bill which compels the Minister to spend any particular portion of the money on any one or other object. The amendment which Deputy Tubridy proposed appears to be purely a permissive one. It enables the Department to extend the sphere of its operations in a particular direction, but it does not say that the Department must spend a fixed sum out of the £250,000 on the provision of accommodation for cattle. As I said on Second Reading, it seems to me always desirable when you are dealing with conditions that very so much as do conditions in different parts of the Gaeltacht, even from parish to parish and house to house in the Gaeltacht, you should give yourself as much room as possible. The Minister claimed, quite rightly I think, that one of the merits of the Bill is that it provided greater elasticity in administration than is found in the other Housing Acts.

I am quite willing to be convinced, but I confess that up to the present I am not convinced by what the Minister has said, that in denying himself power to deal with the particular aspect of the problem to which Deputy Dr. Tubridy referred, if and when, in certain cases, it seemed to him good to do so, the Minister is really doing a very wise thing. I do not really know why he wants to tie his own hands.

Mr. Lynch

I will tell you why. It is because I am so convinced that the £250,000 will very easily be expended on those matters which I have already enumerated. I believe that one could easily spend twice as much on the very same things— dwelling-houses for the people, poultry-houses and pig-houses. I do not see any use in giving me permission to expend money on cattle-houses when the money would not go that far. I want to get the greatest possible good out of the £250,000. I am convinced that we have found the direction in which the money can be best spent and I cannot accept any extension to these directions which will water down the effectiveness of the £250,000.

Mr. Derrig

We would be willing to accept the principle which Deputy Law has just laid down, that the money would not be used for providing housing for livestock unless the Minister is satisfied that the dwelling-houses would otherwise be used for housing cattle.

Mr. Lynch

We are in the awkward position that it would require some drafting. I am absolutely convinced myself that there is no point in it. Such an amendment as the Deputy suggests would require some drafting and that could not be done if we are to get the Bill through all its stages to-day. Even if it could be done, I am satisfied that that kind of permission is no good.

Mr. Derrig

Nothing is any good then. We need not discuss the Bill any further, according to you.

Sir James Craig

While I sympathise most fully with the amendment of Deputy Dr. Tubridy I feel that the Minister is right inasmuch as that what is essential is to get houses for the people. I think the Minister made the point that it is necessary to keep pigs and poultry out of these houses. If that can be effected it will be a big step forward in the right direction. If we had money to spend I would go as far as Deputy Dr. Tubridy in saying that this necessary provision should be made to keep poultry and cattle out of the house. I did not know until I heard Deputy Dr. Tubridy's speech that this method of treating cattle is still employed. It is most objectionable that there should be cattle occupying the same dwelling-house as human beings, particularly houses which are not fit for people to live in. To say that such houses should be used as cattle byres is very objectionable. It is clear from what the Minister has said that they have made up their minds that poultry and pigs are the chief sources of industry. I would like to support the amendment of Deputy Dr. Tubridy, but I feel that the Minister is right in confining the spending of money to the building of dwelling-houses.

Mr. Lynch

I do not want to take the attitude that any amendment that would be moved here to-day would be ineffective. In order to meet Deputy Derrig I am prepared to look into the point to see whether it is possible to bring an amendment before the Seanad. I could look into the matter from that point of view, but I would not hold out any hope on the point because I am convinced in regard to it.

Mr. Derrig

I think that we will have to ask the Minister definitely to commit himself to an amendment to the effect that where he is satisfied that there is no accommodation for cattle such accommodation should be provided. In all schemes under the Land Commission, where new dwelling-houses are built and new tenancies set up, accommodation for cattle is always provided. Why should there be any distinction between the general procedure adopted by the Land Commission and that adopted in this case?

I do not often disagree with Deputy Sir James Craig, but I think that on this occasion both he and Deputy Mongan forget that this is not a Bill to provide dwelling-houses alone. It is a Bill to provide dwelling-houses provided the people have poultry houses or piggeries or that the Minister is satisfied that they are going to provide them. The Minister's word is not going to rule in that matter. The Minister must consult with the Department of Agriculture, and if he says: "I am satisfied that So-and-So should get a grant for the building of a dwelling-house, but I feel that he cannot go into the poultry and pig-rearing industry," the Department will say—otherwise what is the meaning of the clause in the Bill?—"We object to a person getting a dwelling-house unless he builds accommodation for poultry or pigs." If there were no provision in the Bill for the building of piggeries and poultry houses this amendment of mine and that of Deputy Kilroy would hardly come up here. We are as anxious as anybody else that the quarter of a million pounds should be spent on dwelling-houses, but when that provision is contingent on the existence of poultry-houses and piggeries, which, in my opinion, are as difficult to get as cattle-houses, this amendment should be carried.

Seosamh O Mongáin

Ba mhaith liom ceist amháin a iarraidh faoi'n leasú seo, a bhféadfadh na daoine a dhéanfadh tithe do bheithidhigh—an féidir leo tithe breagha do bheith ag na beithidhigh agus tithe gránna do bheith acu féin?

Seán T. O Ceallaigh

An féidir é sin do dhéanamh gan cead on Aire? Ní féidir tigh do thógáil gan cead on Aire?

Fionán O Liongsigh

Má táid ag iarraidh airgead d'fáil ó'n Aire, ní féidir.

Mr. Corry

Does the Minister think that £250,000 is going to relieve this housing problem?

Mr. Lynch

We are not considering that.

Mr. Corry

I sympathise with the Minister in the small amount of money he is getting from the Department of Finance. I do not think that he can blame Deputies here when he sees money squandered in other ways.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must sit down.

Mr. Sheehy (Cork):

I wish to state that, to my mind, the most important matter in connection with this Bill is the housing of our poor fishermen and labourers in the Gaeltacht. A number of them are in the position that they cannot contribute money in order to qualify for a loan. Some months ago I drew the attention of the House to the condition of fishermen in Myross, County Cork, and I felt it my duty to get an inspector to go down there and visit the place. Mr. Hickey, the inspector, made a report that seven or eight houses in that hamlet, which are occupied by hardy and industrious fishermen, were unfit for human habitation. I appeal to the Minister to see that the first people who have claims on the £250,000 are these fishermen who live along the seaboard.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not the point. The Deputy cannot continue along that line.

Mr. Sheehy

I will come to the point. In my opinion, it is far more important to house our poor industrious people living along the seaboard than to house cattle. I would agree to provide accommodation for the housing of cattle if the Minister had sufficient money to do so, but the first and paramount duty of the Dáil is to provide houses for those who cannot build them. If they are shunted now and if they are not given a chance to qualify for houses under this scheme the responsibility for the lives of many of our industrious fishermen will rest on the shoulders of those responsible. I know that so far as the Minister is concerned he is doing his level best, for, since I entered the Dáil——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy had better keep to the amendment.

Mr. Sheehy

Perhaps you will permit me to say that I have every hope that under this Bill the Minister will leave no grievance amongst those who live along our seaboard.

Amendment put.

The Committee divided: Tá, 40; Níl, 68.

Tá

• Aiken, Frank.
• Allen, Denis.
• Blaney, Neal.
• Boland, Gerald.
• Bourke, Daniel.
• Corkery, Dan.
• Corry, Martin John.
• Crowley, Fred. Hugh.
• Crowley, Tadhg.
• Derrig, Thomas.
• Fahy, Frank.
• Flinn, Hugo.
• Fogarty, Andrew.
• Gorry, Patrick J.
• Goulding, John.
• Houlihan, Patrick.
• Jordan, Stephen.
• Kent, William R.
• Killilea, Mark.
• Kilroy, Michael.
• Brady, Seán.
• Briscoe, Robert.
• Buckley, Daniel.
• Carney, Frank.
• Carty, Frank.
• Lemass, Seán F.
• Little, Patrick John.
• Maguire, Ben.
• MacEntee, Seán.
• Murphy, Joseph Xavier.
• O'Dowd, Patrick Joseph.
• O'Kelly, Seán T.
• O'Reilly, Matthew.
• Powell, Thomas P.
• Ryan, James.
• Sexton, Martin.
• Sheehy, Timothy (Tipperary).
• Smith, Patrick.
• Tubridy, John.
• Walsh, Richard.

Níl

• Aird, William P.
• Anthony, Richard.
• Beckett, James Walter.
• Bennett, George Cecil.
• Blythe, Ernest.
• Bourke, Séamus A.
• Brennan, Michael.
• Broderick, Henry.
• Brodrick, Seán.
• Byrne, John Joseph.
• Carey, Edmund.
• Collins-O'Driscoll, Mrs. Margt.
• Colohan, Hugh.
• Conlon, Martin.
• Cooper, Bryan Ricco.
• Cosgrave, William T.
• Craig, Sir James.
• Daly, John.
• Davin, William.
• Davis, Michael.
• De Loughrey, Peter.
• Doyle, Peadar Seán.
• Duggan, Edmund John.
• Dwyer, James.
• Egan, Barry M.
• Esmonde, Osmond Thos. Grattan.
• Fitzgerald, Desmond.
• Fitzgerald-Kenney, James.
• Good, John.
• Heffernan, Michael R.
• Hennessy, Michael Joseph.
• Hennessy, Thomas.
• Henry, Mark.
• Hogan, Patrick (Clare).
• Hogan, Patrick (Galway).
• Holohan, Richard.
• Jordan, Michael.
• Kelly, Patrick Michael.
• Leonard, Patrick.
• Lynch, Finian.
• Mathews, Arthur Patrick.
• McDonogh, Martin.
• McFadden, Michael Og.
• McGilligan, Patrick.
• Mongan, Joseph W.
• Morrissey, Daniel.
• Mulcahy, Richard.
• Murphy, Timothy Joseph.
• Myles, James Sproule.
• Nally Martin Michael.
• O'Connell, Richard.
• O'Connor, Bartholomew.
• O'Hanlon, John F.
• O'Higgins, Thomas.
• O'Leary, Daniel.
• O'Reilly, John J.
• O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
• Reynolds, Patrick.
• Roddy, Martin.
• Shaw, Patrick W.
• Sheehy, Timothy (West Cork).
• Thrift, William Edward.
• Tierney, Michael.
• Vaughan, Daniel.
• White, John.
• White, Vincent Joseph.
• Wolfe, George.
• Wolfe, Jasper Travers.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies G. Boland and Allen; Níl, Deputies Duggan and P.S. Doyle.

Amendment declared lost.

Resolution agreed to.

The Dáil went out of Committee.

Report of Resolution agreed to.