Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 19 Feb 1930

Vol. 33 No. 4

In Committee on Finance. - Vote No. 50—Reformatory and Industrial Schools.

Professor O'Sullivan

I beg to move:—

Go ndeontar suim bhreise ná raghaidh thar £710 chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1930, chun Costaisí mar gheall ar Scoileanna Ceartúcháin agus Saothair, maraon le hAiteanna Coinneála (8 Edw. 7, c. 67; Uimh, 17 de 1926 agus Uimh. 24 de 1929).

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £710 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1930, for Expenses of Reformatory and Industrial Schools, including Places of Detention (8 Edw. 7, c. 67; No. 17 of 1926 and No. 24 of 1929).

There was an increase in the numbers committed to the reformatories and sent to the industrial schools. In the case of the industrial schools, that may be in part due to the passing of the Act in the early portion of last year. If you take the period from the 14th August to the 31st December last in which the Act was in force and compare it with the corresponding period for some of the previous years the actual increase in numbers probably traceable to this Act can be seen. In the year 1926 there were 376 commitments; in 1927 there were 453; in 1928 there were 355; and in 1929 under the 1908 Act 269 and under the new Act 152, making a total of 421. It will be seen, therefore, that there has been a decided reduction in the number committed under the 1908 Act, but a very considerable number has been committed under the 1929 Act, which suggests that there was something in the plea of those who brought forward the Act in the Seanad that a number of those committed under the 1908 Act were not guilty of any real offence but that a pretended offence was charged against them. The increase in the Estimate is due to the absolute impossibility of determining beforehand the number of people who would be committed to reformatories on the one hand and to industrial schools on the other hand.

Mr. Fahy

The figures quoted by the Minister are a justification of the Dáil in passing the Children's Act which did away with the necessity of committing minor offences in order to have destitute children committed to industrial schools. It is unavoidable, apparently, that there should be an increase in that particular Department, but the Estimate shows that there is a larger number of youthful offenders in reformatories. I wonder whether the Minister agrees with certain judges in pronouncements made recently that there is a wave of youthful crime, whether he thinks that crime is on the increase amongst them because there have been additional numbers sent to reformatories. Perhaps he could give us some information on that. It is estimated that £846 additional will be received from parents of children sent to industrial schools. That is just an estimate. I hope it will be justified, and that the hopes will be realised.

Professor O'Sullivan

So far as the last question is concerned, we have collected a considerable number of them. Of course, this is only an estimate and there are a number of weeks still to run to the end of the financial year. I think it can be taken as fairly accurate. All I know is that there is an increased number sent to reformatories; whether because people have been more vigilant or because boys and girls have not been quite as good as they ought to be, I do not know. It may be due to the activities of the Guards, or possibly to what Deputy Fahy and some judges fear, that there is a crime wave sweeping over the youthful community. I could not undertake to answer that question.

Vote put and agreed to.