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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 14 May 1931

Vol. 38 No. 11

In Committee on Finance. - Vote 65—Army Pensions.

I beg to move:

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £126,439 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1932, chun Pinsin Chréachta agus Mhí-ábaltachta, Pinsin Fhear Pósta, Liúntaisí agus Aiscí (Uimh. 26 de 1923 agus Uimh. 12 de 1927) agus chun síntiúisí agus costaisí iolardha ina dtaobh san agus chun Pinsin Seirbhíse Mileata d'íoc (Uimh. 48 de 1924).

That a sum not exceeding £126,439 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1932, for Wound and Disability Pensions, Married Pensions, Allowances and Gratuities (No. 26 of 1923 and No. 12 of 1927) and for sundry contributions and expenses in respect there of and to pay Military Service Pensions (No. 48 of 1924).

This Vote covers the activities of the various Pensions Acts from 1923 to 1927. With regard to the Military Service Pensions Acts, the only operation I have now to deal with is to make certain alterations in the way of knocking names out when the recipient of a pension dies or incurs the penalty of having the pension forfeited. There is in that case no further issue of such pension. The only positive change would be in the case of a man to whom a pension had been allotted when he was in the Army and who had left the Army. In the case of wounds and disability pensions, that work is almost finished now. Practically every case has been dealt with, and the arrangement is that the Board shall meet once a month.

There is one new sub-head in connection with which I do not think there will be much discussion. We make provision under sub-head I for a grant in exceptional circumstances to a person who is the son of a signatory of the Proclamation issued on Easter Monday, 1916, and who has passed the statutory age limit for the receipt of allowances under the Army Pensions Act. There is very little variation in the amount. There is a decrease of £7,777 as compared with last year. That comes mostly under sub-heads A, B and J. The numbers provided under sub-heads A and B show an increase compared with the previous year, but it was not found necessary, with the exception of £304 under sub-head B, to make provision for arrears as in former years.

I move:—

"That the Estimate be reduced by £92,000 in respect of item H."

Item H provides for £145,590 in respect of military service pensions. Our attitude has been stated time and again on these military service pensions. We have no objection to wound pensions, but we have every objection to young, able-bodied men with very little service being provided with service pensions, particularly when Ministers claim that they have not enough money for people whom we consider are much better entitled to pensions. The Ministry turned down the proposition to spend some additional funds in providing for the comfort of people who have reached the age of 70 years. There would be no use now in going into this debate at length. We went into it at great length on several occasions in former years. We simply, by calling for this reduction, which represents the sum which one might take to be yet unexpended in respect of military service pensions, want to effect an economy of money which might be spent more usefully. We intend to vote for the reduction and the wiping out of any sums outstanding against that sub-head.

All I have to say is that the Dáil passed the Military Service Pensions Act in 1924. A Board was set up to consider applications. That Board considered those applications, made awards, and this sum here is just in accordance with the legislation passed by the Dáil. It seems to me that Deputy Aiken's amendment here to reduce this Vote by £92,000 is, in effect, a request to the Dáil by voting on that point to cancel the legislation passed here in 1924.

Amendment put.
The Committee divided: Tá, 53; Níl, 67.

Tá.

  • Aiken, Frank.
  • Allen, Denis.
  • Anthony, Richard.
  • Blaney, Neal.
  • Boland, Gerald.
  • Bourke, Daniel.
  • Brady, Seán.
  • Briscoe, Robert.
  • Buckley, Daniel.
  • Carney, Frank.
  • Carty, Frank.
  • Cassidy, Archie J.
  • Clancy, Patrick.
  • Clery, Michael.
  • Colbert, James.
  • Corkery, Dan.
  • Corry, Martin John.
  • Crowley, Fred. Hugh.
  • Crowley, Tadhg.
  • Davin, William.
  • Derrig, Thomas.
  • De Valera, Eamon.
  • Everett, James.
  • Fahy, Frank.
  • Flinn, Hugo.
  • Fogarty, Andrew.
  • Gorry, Patrick J.
  • Goulding, John.
  • Hayes, Seán.
  • Hogan, Patrick (Clare).
  • Houlihan, Patrick.
  • Jordan, Stephen.
  • Kennedy, Michael Joseph.
  • Kent, William R.
  • Killilea, Mark.
  • Kilroy, Michael.
  • Lemass, Seán F.
  • Little, Patrick John.
  • Maguire, Ben.
  • MacEntee, Seán.
  • Mullins, Thomas.
  • Murphy, Timothy Joseph.
  • O'Connell, Thomas J.
  • O'Dowd, Patrick Joseph.
  • O'Kelly, Seán T.
  • O'Reilly, Matthew.
  • O'Reilly, Thomas.
  • Ryan, James.
  • Sheehy, Timothy (Tipp.).
  • Smith, Patrick.
  • Tubridy, John.
  • Walsh, Richard.
  • Ward, Francis C.

Níl.

  • Aird, William P.
  • Alton, Ernest Henry.
  • Beckett, James Walter.
  • Bennett, George Cecil.
  • Blythe, Ernest.
  • Bourke, Séamus A.
  • Brodrick, Séan.
  • Byrne, John Joseph.
  • Carey, Edmund.
  • Collins-O'Driscoll, Mrs. Margt.
  • Conlon, Martin.
  • Connolly, Michael P.
  • Cosgrave, William T.
  • Craig, Sir James.
  • Daly, John.
  • Davis, Michael.
  • Doherty, Eugene.
  • Dolan, James N.
  • Doyle, Peadar Seán.
  • Duggan, Edmund John.
  • Dwyer, James.
  • Egan, Barry M.
  • Esmonde, Osmond Thos. Grattan.
  • Finlay, Thomas A.
  • Fitzgerald, Desmond.
  • O'Donovan, Timothy Joseph.
  • O'Hanlon, John F.
  • O'Higgins, Thomas.
  • O'Leary, Daniel.
  • O'Reilly, John J.
  • O'Sullivan, Gearóid.
  • O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
  • Reynolds, Patrick.
  • Rice, Vincent.
  • Fitzgerald-Kenney, James.
  • Good, John.
  • Gorey, Denis J.
  • Haslett, Alexander.
  • Hassett, John J.
  • Heffernan, Michael R.
  • Hennessy, Michael Joseph.
  • Hennigan, John.
  • Henry, Mark.
  • Hogan, Patrick (Galway).
  • Jordan, Michael.
  • Kelly, Patrick Michael.
  • Law, Hugh Alexander.
  • Leonard, Patrick.
  • Lynch, Finian.
  • Mathews. Arthur Patrick.
  • McDonogh, Martin.
  • McFadden, Michael Og.
  • Mongan, Joseph W.
  • Mulcahy, Richard.
  • Murphy, James E.
  • Nally, Martin Michael.
  • Nolan, John Thomas.
  • O'Connell, Richard.
  • O'Connor, Bartholomew.
  • Roddy, Martin.
  • Shaw, Patrick W.
  • Sheehy, Timothy (West Cork).
  • Thrift, William Edward.
  • Tierney, Michael.
  • Vaughan, Daniel.
  • White, Vincent Joseph.
  • Wolfe, George.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies G. Boland and Allen; Níl, Deputies Duggan and P.S. Doyle.
Amendment declared lost.

I would like to mention to the Minister a matter relating to Sub-head I—Extra Statutory Grant. This has reference to a case that I think the officials of the Minister's Department will probably remember. It is the case of the children of one of the signatories to the Proclamation of 1916. The guardians were anxious to send his boy to a university. Had his parents lived, this boy would, in the ordinary course, have been sent to a university. The answer I got when I wrote to the Department was that the law did not permit of an allowance in the case of these two children. I would like to know if it would be possible, under a heading such as this, to arrange for a grant for the upkeep of these children. I am informed by their guardians that there probably is money enough in their funds at present—their funds have been well invested—to pay their fees, but there is not money enough to provide for their maintenance during the four or five years necessary.

I think the case that the Deputy is speaking of is the case referred to there. I do not want to mention names. If the Deputy will communicate with me, I will let him know whether this is the case to which he is referring.

Main question put and agreed to.

Barr
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