Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Friday, 26 Jun 1931

Vol. 39 No. 9

In Committee on Finance. - Vote 61—Industrial and Commercial Property Registration Office.

Mr. McGilligan

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £16,010 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1932, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí na hOifige Clárathachta Maoine Tionnscail agus Tráchtála (Uimh. 16 de 1927 agus Uimh. 13 de 1929).

That a sum not exceeding £16,010 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1932, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Industrial and Commercial Property Registration Office (No. 16 of 1927 and No. 13 of 1929).

There is a slight increase shown in the Vote, mainly because they are being obliged to take on a pretty large staff of temporary examiners, eight in number. These were taken on this year for the purpose of dealing with a very big amount of arrears that had accumulated in the patent branch of the office. It is hoped to clear these off within two years. Outside of these temporary examiners, the establishment on the Vote has now pretty definitely been fixed. With the exception of these eight examiners it is to be concluded that the Vote will remain at the same figure except for any change that may be due to annual increments. The estimated receipts last year were £35,000. The exact amount obtained in receipts was £37,400. The Estimate was for about £1,500 over the amount received from the previous year, but the amount actually received was £2,500 more than was estimated. The increase was due to the fact that the office took up a particular attitude towards trade marks offenders under a particular section of the Act, and an increased number of applications resulted. The receipts of this year are not estimated to be so high, but the indications are that the £34,000 in the Estimate will in fact be received.

There is one small vote of £20, expenses in connection with the register of patent agents. It appeared in each Estimate for the last two years, and has not been used. This year it will be used and there may be some slight increase there because it is proposed to hold examinations in the course of the coming year for admission to the Register of Patent Agents.

Mr. Lemass

I have been asked to raise some point concerning this Register of Patent Agents, for admission to which the Minister says an examination will be held in the course of the year. In the Registration Act passed in 1927 it was provided that in order to get admission to the register, an agent had either to reside or have a place of business here. That worked out in such a way that British agents who secured accommodation residences here were able to get on the register. To remedy that situation the Minister brought in an amending Act in 1929 which required that to secure registration an agent had both to reside and have his place of business here. Though that Act was passed, I am informed that there are still on the register a number of British agents. In a recent case against the Comptroller of the office a decision was given in the High Court that a British agent who had been placed upon the register prior to the passing of the 1929 Act, could not be removed in consequence of the passage of the Act, that it applied only to new applicants. I do not think that was the intention of the Minister, or of the Oireachtas, and I would be glad to know if the Minister intends to take any action to deal with the position, also, if he would tell us exactly what is the state of the register in respect of these British agents, who were entitled to get on it prior to the 1929 Act, and who are still on it despite the passage of the new Act; if any action is going to be taken apart from the legal decision to which I have referred, to limit the register to those entitled to go on it under the amending Act of 1929.

Mr. McGilligan

The action to which Deputy Lemass refers was taken, not against the Comptroller, but against myself, and the courts decided that the action which I have taken and which put certain English patent agents off the register was not legal, and that these people must be put back.

The position is much as Deputy Lemass described it. The first Act entitled a person to have his name put on the register if he had either a residence or a place of business here. We amended that later on by saying that the applicant must both reside and have a place of business here. The point then arose as to whether people who had got on the register under the earlier definition could be put off. The whole thing turned upon the point as to whether they ceased to have certain qualifications. The court decision pretty well amounts to this, that the Act which we passed will have effect with regard to new applicants, but that any agents who were previously on could not be removed—in other words, that the Act was not retrospective. When I brought in that particular piece of legislation it was represented to me that there were quite a number of people who were able to take on the work of patent agents in the country, that there was quite a lucrative field of employment which had been occupied by outsiders, and it was aimed at getting that field of employment for our own people. An examination was held, and, as far as I remember, four people obtained the qualifications to go on the register, but since then that number has diminished. There has been one death, and some of the others, I am informed by the office, do not appear to be taking patent work seriously. Consequently, there is a very definite dearth of patent agents who would have the double qualification, if we insisted on re-establishing the new condition with regard to those who had been previously on the register. I have to wait to see what results the new examination will bring. In other words, if there is a sufficient number, then it will be an easy thing to amend the Act. I am not moving for legislation at the moment. I cannot do it before the autumn, and even in the autumn decisions will be taken on the result of certain examinations and on the equities of the whole situation.

Mr. Lemass

What occurs to me is that the number of persons who would prepare themselves for such examination will be influenced by the Minister's intention to restrict employment in this particular branch to persons resident in the country. If it was clearly understood, as I think the Minister has now stated, that if there was a sufficient number of persons trained and available to do patent work in this country he would seek the necessary legislative powers to confine employment to these, there would be a much better chance of the number being forthcoming than if it was thought the position was likely to remain as at present. I understand that a very small proportion of the work is made available for Irish agents, and that it is mostly done through English offices.

Mr. McGilligan

I have already stated that policy. I stated it when the amending legislation was introduced, and have, in fact, stated it when a number of persons who had the intention of proceeding for this examination consulted me. When a sufficient number of people show themselves, then we can close the doors to people from outside. But there is an equity which will even then have to be examined with regard to people who took up occupation in this country under the terms of a particular Act, and under the terms of a court judgment as to what the intentions of that Act are declared to be, and even the intentions of the second Act, as found by the court.

Mr. Lemass

I take it that the Minister's view in regard to the second Act and of the Dáil's intention is contrary to the decision of the court?

Mr. McGilligan

Certainly. At least the view held with regard to the second Act was that it did give me power to strike people off at a particular date if they had not shown themselves to have the double qualification.

Mr. Lemass

Are they not registered from year to year?

Mr. McGilligan

No. When the cases came before me I, in fact, took certain action and removed certain people from the register. Then an appeal was made in accordance with the Act, and when the thing came for hearing before me I found myself in a tremendous difficulty. I found, as far as I was concerned, not pretending to have the best judicial outlook on the whole matter, tremendous difficulty as to whether or not these people should be struck off. I did strike them off without any great feeling of certainty, and more or less encouraged an appeal to the court. An appeal was taken with that result.

Vote put and agreed to.