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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Friday, 17 Jul 1931

Vol. 39 No. 18

Financial Resolution. - Tariff on Harness Leather.

I move:—

1. That a customs duty of an amount equal to twenty per cent. of the value of the article shall be charged, levied, and paid on all harness leather, whether dressed or undressed, of any of the following classes imported into Saorstát Eireann on or after the 17th day of July, 1931, and before the 17th day of July, 1936, that is to say:— harness hides or parts thereof, harness sides or parts thereof, harness backs or parts thereof, harness bellies or parts thereof, harness shoulders or parts thereof.

2. That, notwithstanding anything contained in the foregoing paragraph of this Resolution, the duty mentioned in that paragraph shall not be charged or levied on patent leather, chrome tanned leather, dressed collar hides or parts thereof, or dressed bridle butts or parts thereof.

3. That a customs duty of an amount equal to twenty per cent. of the value of the article shall be charged, levied, and paid on the following articles imported into Saorstát Eireann on or after the 17th day of July, 1931, and before the 17th day of July, 1936, that is to say, all harness, whether completely or partially manufactured, and all parts of such harness other than parts which do not consist of or contain leather and at the time of importation are not attached to any harness, whether completely or partially manufactured, or to any part of such harness or consisting of leather.

4. That the provisions of Section 8 of the Finance Act, 1919, shall apply to the duties mentioned in this Resolution with the substitution of the expression "Saorstát Eireann" for the expression "Great Britain and Ireland" and as though articles chargeable with either of those duties were mentioned in the Second Schedule to that Act and were so mentioned as goods to which three-fourths of the full rate was thereby made applicable as a preferential rate.

5. That the value of any article for the purposes of this Resolution shall be taken to be the price which an importer would give for the article if the article were delivered, freight and insurance paid, in bond at the place of importation, and duty shall be paid on that value as fixed by the Revenue Commissioners.

6. It is hereby declared that it is expedient in the public interest that this Resolution shall have statutory effect under the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, 1927 (No. 7 of 1927).

This resolution follows the application which was made by the Irish Free State Tanners' Federation for the imposition of a Customs duty of 25 per cent. ad valorem on sole, insole and harness leather and manufactured harness imported into Saorstát Eireann. The opposition to the application came chiefly from the Irish Free State Boot Manufacturers' Association. There were five tanneries existing at the time of the application. Of these, the principal one is in Limerick and has a present capacity of 1,200 hides per week. There is another in Thomastown with a capacity of 50 hides per week, one in Clonmel with a capacity of 75 hides, and one in Ballytore with a capacity of 100 hides per week. The three smaller ones manufacture only harness leather, and in the case of the principal one, 60 per cent. of the output consists of harness leather. The maximum capacity of the four factories would be about four-fifths of the requirement of the Saorstát. The number of people employed was 65 in May, 1928, and 44 in March, 1931. If the tanneries were developed not only to their maximum capacity but so as to meet the full requirement of the Saorstát, the possible employment would be from 300 to 400 men.

The boot industry, from which the opposition came is, of course, much more important. For instance, in the boot factories in the Saorstát, in September, 1926, there were 973 workers; September, 1927, 1,019 workers; September, 1928, 1,074 workers; September, 1929, 1,128 workers; and September, 1930, 1,227 workers. There has been an increase in the output. In 1926, there were 501,840 pairs. In 1929, there were 521,340 pairs. In the year 1930, the number of pairs reached 700,000. The development, so far, in the boot industry has been chiefly in heavy nailed boots. Even of these, the Saorstát factories have only captured about 40 per cent. of the market. Taking into account all classes of footwear, only about 10 per cent. of the home requirements are being supplied by output. In the case of heavy nailed boots, the better class has been captured, so that the market that remains to be captured is chiefly the cheaper line. In the case of welted and machine-sewn boots, on the other hand, the progress has been in the cheaper lines and the prospects of the development of the industry depend on getting cheaper leather. To put the relative importance of the tanning and boot-making industry in another way: the capital invested in the tanning industry is about £75,000; in boot factories it is over £200,000. The employees are over 1,200 in one and under 100 in the other. At the conclusion of the public sittings, the applicants intimated that they were prepared to amend the application in respect of the rate of duty by substituting 15 per cent. ad valorem for the original 25 per cent. This Resolution proposes to give a duty of 20 per cent., with imperial preference at the rate of 15 per cent. For effective purposes, therefore, the rate of duty proposed in this Resolution will be the rate asked for by the applicants when they amended their application. The following is the summary of the conclusions of the Commission:—

"In our report on the schedule to the Tariff Commission Act, 1926, we give this conclusion in a more detailed form. If the application could be granted in full without involving any serious prejudice to other important trades and industries, the development of the tanning industry would not, in our opinion, assume the proportions suggested by the applicants. The present output of the Saorstát tanneries is approximately 270 hides per week equivalent to 13,500 hides per annum. We doubt whether with their present premises, and assuming that a market could be found for the leather produced, a greater output could be achieved than 1,200 hides per week equivalent to 60,000 hides per annum. We estimate that this output would give employment to no more than 120 persons. The Saorstát boot manufacturers, having regard in particular to the strong competition which they have to meet must use many varieties of sole and insole leather not produced in Saorstát Eireann. Most of the sole and insole leather which they and their competitors use is made from dry hides. The applicants do not find it expedient to manufacture leather from dry hides and made it clear that they have no intention of so doing. Even some boot manufacturers who use wet hide leather cannot obtain leather suitable for their purpose from the Saorstát tanneries. If the application were granted, the Saorstát boot manufacturers would still use imported leather. The increased cost of imported leather resulting from the imposition of a tariff would be reflected in the cost of the manufacture of boots and would adversely affect an important and developing industry. When the evidence at the public sittings had been taken, the applicants, recognising the validity of the case made by the nine boot manufacturers who appeared in opposition to the application intimated that they were willing to amend their application so as to exclude from its scope the sole and insole leather required by these manufacturers. If the nine boot manufacturers were allowed to import their sole and insole leather free of duty, a similar concession would, in equity, have to be given to small factories and hand bootmakers."

That is elaborated.

"We are satisfied that the case for granting the application as far as sole leather and insole leather are concerned has not been established by the applicants.

"As regards harness leather, different considerations arise. The Saorstát tanneries produce harness hides, harness sides, harness backs, harness shoulders and harness bellies quite suitable for the purpose for which such leather is required. This leather is of good quality and is sold at a price which compares favourably with the price of imported harness leather of similar type. Furthermore, native hides, whilst not suitable for heavy sole leather are eminently suitable for the manufacture of harness leather. We are satisfied that harness leather of the types mentioned above is being manufactured efficiently by the Saorstát tanneries, and that the tanneries are capable of producing such leather in quantities sufficient to meet the whole of the home demand. A tariff on harness leather would give them a reasonable opportunity of capturing the home market without imposing an undue burden on the consumer or adversely affecting any other trade or industry if accompanied by a tariff on manufactured harness. In the event of a tariff being imposed on harness leather, it would be necessary to impose a counterbalancing duty on manufactured harness so as to ensure that Saorstát manufacturers of harness would not be placed in a disadvantageous position as compared with their competitors. The placing of a restriction on the importation of manufactured harness would also help to create an increased demand for home-produced harness leather. We recommend the imposition of a customs duty of 20 per cent. ad valorem on dressed and undressed harness leather of the following classes, viz., harness hides, harness sides, harness backs, harness bellies and harness shoulders, or parts thereof, excluding patent leathers, dressed collar hides, bridle butts and chrome backs. We recommend the imposition of a customs duty of 20 per cent. ad valorem on manufactured harness or parts thereof, excluding all unattached non-leather parts. We recommend that there should be an imperial preferential rate equal to three-fourths of the full rate. We recommend that these duties should be imposed for a period of five years. We do not recommend the imposition of a customs duty on sole and insole leather or leather intended for the manufacture of machinery belting."

The tariff imposed on harness does not include saddlery. It is difficult to know what is the annual importation of harness as distinct from saddlery. The two combined are in the neighbourhood of about £20,000 per annum. What this tariff will do is, it will give the Irish tanneries security in the harness leather market, and harness leather is at present their principal output. It should, by giving them security there, give them increased output and make it possible for at least the one tannery which deals with sole leather to do better in the manufacture of sole leather. As the Commission points out, it would not be possible for any one tannery to supply the various classes of sole leather required, but if it is helped in other directions it may be able to do considerably better than it has been doing in respect to sole leather.

I do not think that any useful purpose would be served, in the absence of the report on which the Resolution is based, in delaying the Dáil discussing the Resolution. I take it that the Report of the Tariff Commission will be circulated immediately to Deputies.

In the course of a few days.

When the Resolution comes up on Report an opportunity will be available for Deputies to express their views on it. I take it that by that time the information made available to the Tariff Commission will be in the hands of Deputies.

I think it is hardly fair to bring in this Resolution on the last day of the Session. The tariff will be in operation for three months or more before Deputies will have an opportunity of discussing it. We have not the evidence before us on which the Resolution is founded. The only evidence before us is contained in the few extracts that the Minister for Finance read when moving the Resolution. It seems to me that this tariff is going to put an increased burden on people who can least afford it, that is the small farmer—in fact, all farmers—as well as men in a small way in the cities and towns who now use horses and donkeys as a means of transport. It is not going to fall on the hunting or racing community, because saddlery is definitely ruled out.

The boot manufacturers made their case successfully against the imposition of a tariff on sole and insole leather. I do not suppose that the farming community was represented at or took the opportunity of putting their case before the Tariff Commission. From what the Minister has said it seems to me that the price of harness will undoubtedly be raised because he said it was necessary to put a customs duty on imported manufactured harness in order that the harness manufacturers here would not be placed at a disadvantage by having to pay more for their raw material. If they have to pay more for their raw material naturally they will have to charge more for their manufactured goods. In that way an increased impost will fall on those who have to purchase harness.

I do not want to go into this matter at any great length except that I would like to be satisfied that we would wait until we have the findings of the Commission before us and the evidence before us. I would like to be satisfied that the game is worth the candle in this matter. If I think it is I will support it but I would only do so again expressing the belief that I do not think that will go very far, any more than it has gone in the boot industry, to establish a tanning industry on a proper basis in this country. I do not know the number of men employed but if it only gets on at the rate at which the boot industry has progressed I am of the belief that the tariff on this is not going to do a very great deal. In any case, we can only wait until we have the report before us and we will be in a better position then to judge of what our action should be in the matter.

I would like to join with Deputy O'Connell in entering a strong objection to the Minister bringing in this proposal on the last day of the session. I do not know that there is any reason why it should be brought in at this particular moment. It seems to be a peculiar thing on the part of the Minister for Finance that he appears to avail of these moments when the House is engaged on a number of other important matters to try and get through these Resolutions. I do not know whether it is unfortunate on the part of the Minister that he cannot avoid this or whether it is a deliberate policy to bring these matters forward in that particular way. At all events, it is most unfortunate.

I think it is one of the outstanding weaknesses in connection with our Parliamentary system that we are called upon to approve of these particular tariffs before we have any opportunity whatever of looking into the evidence; in fact, before the evidence is before us at all we are asked to give a verdict. That seems to be the same in connection with every tariff. First the approval of the House has to be gained and afterwards we see the evidence. It seems to be an astounding way of achieving a change of tariff policy. Judging by what we have done in this direction in the past. I am not at all happy about allowing these tariffs through without discussion.

In connection with the last tariff which we had before us there was a somewhat similar proposal to this one in that it impinged upon existing tariffed industries. We had to make an alteration in the tariff on imported cloth, and we were rushed into a conclusion on that particular subject though some of us doubted the wisdom of that proposal. We found almost immediately after that, owing to the hasty way in which the tariff was put forward, that it was going to injure seriously the clothing industry and do far more injury in connection with employment in the clothing industry than it was going to do good in the matter of giving employment in the manufacture of cloth.

With that sort of experience before us it is unwise to rush into these proposals without due consideration. It appears to me, as one of those who does not know a whole lot about this particular industry beyond what is known in a general way, that it will be very difficult to separate the leather used in connection with the bootmaking industry from the leather used in the harness-making industry. I am afraid that it will be found that in our efforts to protect the harness-making industry we are going to add to the cost of the manufacture in connection with the boot industry. I am interested in this matter from the point of view of the common welfare of the industries of the country. I have stressed before in this House the serious situation that has arisen in connection with the increase in the cost of living in this country. The cost of living in this country is very much higher than it is in adjoining countries. That particular factor, though it has been stressed several times during the recent debates, does not, I believe, get the attention that it ought to get. This country lives by its ability to export agricultural produce to the most competitive market in the world.

Hear, hear!

Everything that adds to our difficulty in selling our goods in that particular market is against the interests of this State. As we add to the cost of living in this country we add to the cost of production of agricultural produce, and as we add to the cost of agricultural produce we add to the difficulties of the farmer in selling his produce in the most competitive market in the world.

Mr. Byrne

Is there any other section in the community but the farmers to be considered?

The farming section of the community is the section on which most of us are living and the Deputy amongst the others is living on the farmers. This is not the most opportune moment to discuss this subject, but there are principles lying behind these proposals that do not get the attention they deserve from the Deputies here. As far as I am concerned I am prepared to offer a protest against this proposal. It is a proposal like the other proposals in reference to tariffs that will add to the cost of living, and that will be followed by similar results.

Whatever one may think of the fitness of bringing forward this Resolution at this late hour in our proceedings we can have only one opinion as to the effect of the Report of the Tariff Commissioners. It means that the Executive Council have decided that there is to be no leather industry in the Saorstát. One more negative is to be added to the other negatives. There is to be no coach-building industry, there is to be no paper-making industry, there is to be no flour-milling industry, and there is to be no leather-making industry in the country. God knows how many other "no's" are to be added.

When the Minister said that the effect of giving a tariff on harness leather is going to help on the tanning industry and certain sole leather, of course, he is not serious. He is not to be taken seriously at all. The effect of the decision with regard to sole leather will be that those who are at present engaged in trying to manufacture it will close down. The one little bit of leather industry that will then be left in the country will be the manufacture of harness leather. That is an extraordinary position for a country that is producing so much raw material for the manufacture of leather.

The Minister for Finance, in face of his repeated assertions that there is no room in this country for an increase in the agricultural population, must have a very despairing outlook with regard to the future of this country. The Minister who holds that there is no room for an addition to the agricultural population ought surely be extra enthusiastic about the establishment of industry. But the Minister has not shown that he regards his announcement to-day as having any effect on the general economic position. Whereas, of course, it means that he has really nothing to offer to the people of the country. One industry after another is finding it impossible to exist, thanks to this wonderful Commission which the Minister has established. There can be little industrial future and no agricultural future from that policy for the people to look forward to in this country, so far as one can see.

I agree with Deputy Moore that the statement that the Minister has read out from the Tariff Commission is most disappointing. There is one very efficient tannery in this country—at Limerick. That tannery seems to be the only tannery which is making leather for boots. I happen to know that that tannery is a very efficient tannery, and there can be no doubt whatever about the quality of its products. I think that we should have further information as to the position of the boot industry if the boot industry in the Irish Free State is to succeed in capturing a substantial portion of the heavy trade in footwear. I see no reason why they should not be asked to give special support and therefore to absorb a certain proportion of Irish manufactured leather. Otherwise, we are in the position that we are protecting the boot and shoe industry which is not itself prepared to support another Irish industry. This is an industry which was protected with the intention of trying to encourage improved production all along the line.

Everybody knows the Irish people have, what we might call, a particular sentimental regard for the tanning industry. Every small farmer, and for that matter every small boy, has a weakness for the tanning industry. Practically every town twenty or thirty years ago had a little tannery. We thought when an effort was being made to build up the boot and shoe industry, that it was an essential part of the Government's programme to restore tanneries. Will this industry in Limerick be allowed to fall through? I think the people who are interested in that industry will admit that the most the tariff will do will be to enable them to carry on for a few months, or perhaps a year or two. Deputy Moore pointed out that, as far as the manufacture of boot leather is concerned, the Government has practically decreed that it cannot continue to exist.

Deputy O'Connell has very rightly stressed the fact that the agricultural population will have to bear the extra cost in this case. I think Deputy O'Connell might have gone further in connection with that matter. He claims it to be the policy of the Labour Party that these industries ought to be put on a proper foundation and made more up-to-date; that more capital should be invested in them. The three existing tanneries are in a very weak position. Even with this tariff, I doubt whether they will be able to improve their position very much. I think the Government should intervene with a view to seeing whether they could not reorganise the industry and have machinery installed in order to enable manufacturers to take proper advantage of the tariff without imposing an undue burden upon the community. I do not think Deputy Good is quite right when he says that the effect of this tariff will mean a general burden. I think the cost of living here is due to the bad system of distribution.

It is aggravated by 15 per cent. tariff on boots.

If the members of the Dublin Chamber of Commerce would only direct their attention to the question of reducing prices and to the question of profiteering, particularly in the matter of foodstuffs, and also to the question of rent, in which Deputy Good is somewhat interested—

Rents must follow costs.

—perhaps they would do more good for the community as a whole. Deputy Good seems to be concerned about the community and possibly he will consider what I have just stated. With other Deputies, I am disappointed at the manner in which this Resolution is being rushed. I am very anxious to have the boot industry thoroughly scrutinised, particularly in view of this tariff. I think we have now reached the point when we should ask those engaged in the boot and shoe industry to do something to help the tanning industry. Their attitude seems to be simply to declare war on the application of the Tanners' Federation. I think we rather expected they would have a more patriotic outlook in this matter. I am sorry the Minister has not given us further information which would enable us to discuss the matter in more detail.

Mr. Byrne

I welcome the imposition of this tariff and of any tariff that will help to develop industries in this country. I am surprised at the attitude the Labour Party has taken on this tariff question. If the unemployment problem is ever going to be solved, and I speak as one with some knowledge of economics, it can never be solved without the aid of tariffs. Whenever a tariff is suggested here, there is a doleful, pitiful cry about the rise in the cost of living. A rise in the cost of living would be immaterial if sufficient employment were found for the unemployed in this State.

When Deputy Good was speaking about this tariff, I was thinking of the effect of it upon the unemployment situation in Dublin. Deputy Good knows there is a burden on the city through unemployment and that burden has been increasing during the last couple of years until it has reached about £250,000 per annum. Deputy Good did not mention what effect the lack of employment had on the cost of living or upon the industries in the city and the trade and commerce of the city. The Dublin Chamber of Commerce is an antiquated organisation from which nothing can be hoped as far as the development of the country is concerned. We hear a lot about the farmers and how, if anything is added to the burden of agriculture, our great industry will be killed. I have no sympathy with that point of view. Anyone who gives consideration to tariffs is aware that the Danish farmer does not object——

The Deputy must confine himself to the question before the House.

Mr. Byrne

I am doing so. I am entitled to refer to the agricultural industry, because it has already been mentioned, and I am entitled to refer to what is happening the agricultural industry in other countries.

We cannot have a general debate on tariffs now. I am sure the Deputy will agree on that. It would be most unfair to deal with the matter in a general way.

Mr. Byrne

I am not going to enter upon a general debate. I merely wish to rebut the statements made by Deputy Good. He said that the agricultural community will object. In my opinion the agricultural community are inclined more and more to the imposition of tariffs, and Deputy Good, in his statement is not representing the point of view of the farmers. The farmers of other countries have accepted these tariffs because they are for the national good. They have been imposed in France, Denmark and other countries, and the agricultural community have prospered. When all the tariffs that we have imposed here have reached the stage when they will begin to repay the State, when they begin to operate effectively and advantageously, there is no doubt that the agricultural community here will benefit; the farmers will indirectly receive the same benefits as the rest of the community. To prevent unemployment we must have tariffs. As long as we permit goods manufactured in foreign countries to enter this country we will have unemployment and a higher cost of living than would follow the imposition of tariffs.

Has the tariff on boots been of benefit to this country?

We are not discussing the boot tariff now.

We are discussing leather and that is very closely associated with boots.

We are discussing a tariff on harness leather.

Mr. Byrne

I stand behind the Minister for Finance when he introduces this particular tariff.

I must congratulate Deputy Byrne upon his changed attitude. I am glad to see that we have made at least one convert in the House. Deputy Byrne has come around to the point of view of those who advocate whole-hog protection for the industries of this country. We have at least made a certain advance when we find the Deputy thinking that way.

Mr. Byrne

I have always favoured tariffs.

I think there will be general disappointment when the results of this proposed tariff become known. As Deputy Derrig pointed out, it will sound the death-knell of the tanning industry. As regards the amount of leather used in harness-making, it is really very little. Most of the needs of the farmers are at the moment served by imported second-hand harness. That has largely taken the place of the harness formerly manufactured here. Does the Minister not think that the proposed tariff will have the effect of killing harness making, and, incidentally, the tanning industry? There is no doubt there is a diminishing demand for new harness owing to the increased amount of secondhand harness imported. I wonder are the members of the Tariff Commission satisfied on that point?

I am glad the Minister had the courage to impose this tariff. He has adopted at least a portion of the Fianna Fáil policy, and I am proud of that. At one time in Limerick we had 500 workers engaged; to-day we have only thirty. I believe when this tariff is operative that we will have the number increased again to 500.

There is no other method of dealing with the imposition of tariffs than the method that has been in operation. If we allow the matter to be discussed fully before the tariff is imposed, there is bound to be forestalling, with the result that the object of the tariff will be defeated for a considerable period, and perhaps irreparable harm will be done to an industry. There is no alternative but to ask the Dáil to agree to the imposition of a tariff in the first instance, and then consider the matter on the various stages the Bill afterwards. It is, perhaps, unfortunate that this comes at the end of the session, but we received the report, and it was felt it would be undesirable to let the matter lie fallow until October. If the Dáil in October does not confirm what is done to-day, any tax collected in the meantime will be repaid. With regard to sole leather, the applicants, when they heard the case of the boot manufacturers, agreed that the requirements of the boot manufacturers should be exempt from the tariff. The only thing that remained for the Tariff Commission then to consider was the sole leather used by repairers and small manufacturers.

Surely the Tanners' Federation had to make a compromise when the alternative seemed to be that they were not going to get anything.

That did not arise. They were making their case.

What is the amount of the imports of sole leather and harness leather?

I could not give it.

Could the Minister say if the leather for the uppers of boots is exempt?

All leather for boots is exempt.

How will they differentiate?

I believe the Tariff Commission is satisfied, and the Revenue Officers, since they got in touch with the Tariff Commission, are satisfied that it can be done.

Motion put and agreed to.
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