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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Friday, 9 Mar 1934

Vol. 51 No. 4

Private Deputies' Business. - Relief of Rates on Agricultural Land.

Debate resumed on the following motion:—
"That the Dáil condemns the action of the Government in reducing the total of the grants payable for the relief of rates on agricultural land."—Deputies Belton, O'Higgins and Minch.

Pretty well everything that could be said about this motion has been said, so I will not detain the House more than a few minutes. I will not move the adjournment to-day. I am sorry I have no direct representatives here, but I have an interesting document which was signed by two Cork Deputies, giving their promises to the electors:

"The land annuities will be permanently reduced by half, and the instalments which fell due during the present economic depression will not be collected. The land of Ireland belongs to the Irish farmers who fought for it."

That is signed by Daniel Corkery and Seán Moylan. The Minister for Finance described, in very rhetorical fashion, my annihilation at a recent Ard-Fheis when I moved for complete de-rating. The Minister for Finance, when he is running away from some position he took up himself, likes to be accompanied, whether the person accompanying him be friend or foe. He has no comrades from our side in this retreat. Complete de-rating was not turned down by our Party. It was referred to a body for further consideration. This motion condemns the action of the Government in reducing the total of the grants payable in relief of rates on agricultural land. To sum up the position, a few figures, and a few figures only, are needed. Our Government had taxes imposed for the relief of rates on agricultural land. The produce of these taxes was £2,200,000. To the query of the Minister for Industry and Commerce as to where the money was to come from, the answer obviously is "From the taxes imposed to produce that £2,200,000." These taxes operated last year and the Government had the benefit of that portion which was with-held—£448,000. That money should have been given for the purpose for which it was collected. Another reason is that, last year, the Government collected, or funded, annuities amounting to £3,000,000. They either got that money or it is owing to them. In connection with this matter, I think I should quote a statement made by Mr. de Valera on 12th November, 1929. He said then:—

"The farmers in the Six Counties and in England were relieved of their rates. Mr. Blythe had told them that it would be impossible to find the money to de-rate agricultural land in the Free State.... If we get control, we will not pay that money (the land annuities) which we believe is the definite property of the Free State Exchequer to England and, out of that £3,000,000, £2,000,000 could be made available for de-rating. We are prepared to put the farmers of this part of Ireland on a level with those with whom they have to compete in the Six Counties and in England. It is madness for us to be giving employment to the stranger when our own people are out of employment."

That was a definite promise of de-rating.

You spoiled that promise.

The land annuities are paid to England. Confining myself to the grant strictly, our Government levied taxes last year to produce this £2,200,000. They got that money and appropriated £500,000 of it to other purposes. They got in in annuities last year, or are owed, annuities amounting to £3,000,000. They also got in in taxation the £2,000,000 which should have provided for local loans and R.I.C. pensions. Even though they did not pay that money, they did not reduce the taxes that produced that amount. Our Government had, therefore, £8,000,000 in the Exchequer on foot of those amounts. The farmers had to pay last year this £3,000,000 in annuities, £1,500,000 in local rates and £5,000,000 to England. Out of what our Government had collected, that £5,000,000 normally would have been met. All the Government paid out was £1,750,000. They made a profit of about £5,000,000 and the farmers had to pay that £5,000,000 direct to England. Their agricultural grant was reduced without any reason being assigned.

You told John Bull to keep the remainder.

He took it himself. You were not able to keep it from him although you said you would keep it.

We would have kept it if you had dropped out.

This conversation cannot be allowed to continue. Deputy Belton must be allowed to proceed.

I do not think the Deputy will contradict the figures I have given. The entire payments are being met and one section is paying not only the annuities but the local loans and R.I.C. pensions. He will not contradict the statement that the taxes that produced the amount of the local loans and R.I.C. pensions under the previous Government were levied last year and produced that amount.

He will also agree that our Government got £3,000,000 in annuities last year—that is the full half of the annuities for May and June and half the annuities for November and December when they were halved by the Land Act of last year. He will also agree that the Exchequer had the taxes produced for the previous Government to provide for the £2,200,000 grants for the relief of rates. Can anybody on the Government side of the House give any reason why the agricultural grant should have been reduced. The Government were getting the money that they were getting the previous year and that the previous Government were getting. Why then did they not pay the agricultural grant in full? The agricultural industry had to pay not only its annuities to our Government but it had as well to pay the annuities to the British Government. Not only did they pay their rates on agricultural land as heretofore, but they also paid the two millions for local loans and R.I.C. pensions, because the British Government collected the entire of what they claimed that we ought to pay. In these circumstances, there was not an iota of reason why the £2,200,000 for agricultural grants should have been reduced.

I do not think if I talked for five hours there could be anything more to be said. The figures are there staring people plainly in the face. The figures can be seen and understood by everybody inside and outside the House. If people do not want to see them and remain wilfully blind, then there is no use in wasting the time of the House in trying to make them see and understand what they do not want to understand.

Question put.
The House divided: Tá, 43; Níl, 60.

Anthony, Richard.Beckett, James Walter.Belton, Patrick.Bennett, George Cecil.Bourke, Séamus.Brennan, Michael.Brodrick, Seán.Burke, James Michael.Burke, Patrick.Coburn, James. Fitzgerald-Kenney, James.Haslett, Alexander.Keating, John.MacDermot, Frank.McFadden, Michael Og.McGovern, Patrick.McGuire, James Ivan.McMenamin, Daniel.Morrisroe, James.Morrissey, Daniel.Mulcahy, Richard.Nally, Martin.

Costello, John Aloysius.Curran Richard.Davis, Michael.Desmond, William.Dillon, James M.Dockrell, Henry Morgan.Dolan, James Nicholas.Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.Fagan, Charles.Fitzgerald, Desmond. O'Higgins, Thomas Francis.O'Leary, Daniel.O'Mahony, The.O'Neill, Eamonn.O'Reilly, John Joseph.O'Sullivan, John Marcus.Redmond, Bridget Mary.Reidy, James.Rice, Vincent.Rogers, Patrick James.Thrift, William Edward.

Níl

Aiken, Frank.Bartley, Gerald.Beegan, Patrick.Boland, Gerald.Bourke, Daniel.Brady, Brian.Brady, Seán.Breahnach, Cormac.Breen Daniel.Briscoe, Robert.Browne, William Frazer.Carty, Frank.Clery, Mícheál.Concannon, Helena.Corkery, Daniel.Crowley, Timothy.Daly, Denis.Derrig, Thomas.De Valera, Eamon.Doherty, Hugh.Donnelly, Eamon.Everett, James.Flynn, John.Fogarty, Andrew.Gibbons, Seán.Goulding, John.Hales, Thomas.Harris, Thomas.Hayes, Seán.Houlihan, Patrick.

Keely, Séamus P.Kehoe, Patrick.Kelly, James Patrick.Kelly, Thomas.Kennedy, Michael Joseph.Keyes, Michael.Killilea, Mark.Kilroy, Michael.Kissane, Eamonn.Lemass Seán F.Little, Patrick John.Moane, Edward.Moore, Séamus.Moylan, Seán.Norton, William.O'Briain, Donnchadh.O'Doherty, Joseph.O'Dowd, Patrick.O'Grady, Seán.O'Kelly, Seán Thomas.O'Reilly, Matthew.Pearse, Margaret Mary.Rice, Edward.Ryan, James.Ryan, Martin.Ryan, Robert.Smith, Patrick.Traynor, Oscar.Victory, James.Walsh, Richard.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Bennett and O'Leary; Níl: Deputies Little and Traynor.
Motion declared lost.
Barr
Roinn