Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 23 May 1934

Vol. 52 No. 12

In Committee on Finance. - Financial Resolution No. 2—Excise.

Mr. MacEntee

I move:—

That where a vehicle (in this Resolution referred to as the first-mentioned vehicle) has another vehicle or an attachment in the nature of a vehicle attached to and partly superimposed upon it, the first-mentioned vehicle and the said other vehicle or attachment shall, for the purposes of the Third Schedule of the Finance Act, 1926 (No. 35 of 1926), be deemed to form and be a single vehicle and the first-mentioned vehicle shall not, by reason merely of the attachment thereto of the said other vehicle or attachment, be deemed to be a tractor or a vehicle drawing a trailer, and the amount of the duty chargeable under Section 13 of the Finance Act, 1920, in respect of the first-mentioned vehicle and the said other vehicle or attachment shall be determined, and the said Third Schedule shall be construed and applied accordingly.

This Resolution is designed to safeguard the existing revenue for the Road Fund. Under the Finance Act of 1926, tractors used for general haulage purposes were charged at £21 per annum and no duty was charged on trailers drawn by tractors. Formerly, these tractors and trailers were connected only by a drawbar, but for some time past there has been adopted a method of superimposing the front portion of the trailer on the tractor, so that they both form part of the one machine, of which the tractive portion it detachable. As I say, that would mean that we would have a vehicle, capable of transporting very heavy loads and capable therefore of doing, under the theory that has governed this matters up to the present, a considerable amount of damage to the roads getting off with a comparatively low rate of duty, whereas I should be subject to a high tax. The consequence is that the proper revenue of the Road Fund I diminished thereby, and every inducement is given to adopt the particular combination of tractor trailer for motor cars with one pa of the vehicular structure superimpose on the other part. It is considered that that is not desirable, and the purpose of this Resolution is to ensure that that combination will be taxed as if it were a complete vehicle.

Mr. Cosgrave

Would the Minister explain what is the amount of the tax in this case?

Mr. MacEntee

It will depend, of course, on the rating of the composite vehicle.

Mr. Cosgrave

Perhaps the Minister would explain what he means by that, because, as far as can be learned from the Third Schedule of the Finance Act of 1926, there are various rates of duty set out, according to the description of the vehicle, and so on, and then the Schedule goes on to mention, in paragraph 4, "vehicles of the following descriptions used solely in the course of trade or in agriculture, that is to say"—and it sets out locomotive ploughing engines, tractors, and a number of other types of vehicle. Then there are further descriptions of vehicles and the prices set out. Are these prices to be added, and if so, on what weight will they be added?

Mr. MacEntee

On the weight of the vehicle only. On page 457 of the Finance Act of 1926 rates of duty are set out, varying, I think, from £6 to £105.

Mr. Cosgrave

Is it intended to put on those rates of duty in this Resolution or are they added to it?

Mr. MacEntee

No. It is merely proposed to regard a composite vehicle as one vehicle for the purpose of the Act.

Mr. Davin

Is there any maximum laden weight?

Mr. MacEntee

No more than under the existing legislation in which the engine and the lorry constitute one unit.

Mr. McMenamin

How are they to be valued in a case where a firm has half-a-dozen trailers for carrying different loads? How are they to be taxed?

Mr. MacEntee

That will be a matter for the individual firm at the moment.

Mr. McMenamin

But I think it is for this House first.

Mr. Cosgrave

What will be the additional costs in this case? Take agriculture as an example. A man has a 24-horse power Ford car, and he has a trailer added to that, say, to bring horses or cows around. What would be the cost imposed by this Resolution additional to the annual road tax that he pays on the 24-horse power car?

Mr. MacEntee

If the Deputy will look up the Act and see the conditions under which they are taxed, he will understand that this does not make any difference in the case of cars used for agricultural purposes.

Mr. Cosgrave

The sum and substance of it is that where a vehicle has another vehicle attached to it and partly superimposed upon it they shall be deemed to form a single vehicle and that the first vehicle shall not be deemed to be a tractor or a vehicle drawing a trailer and that the amount of duty shall be determined accordingly. Can the Minister give the House some information as to what this means in a particular case? If a tractor pulls a four-wheel vehicle and its weight is two tons, what will be the extra charge in that case?

Mr. MacEntee

If it pulls a four-wheel vehicle it does not come under this at all.

Mr. Cosgrave

Well, say, a two-wheel vehicle.

Mr. MacEntee

Then it will depend on the unladen weight.

Mr. Bennett

Will an ordinary tractor, combined in the way the Minister says, and used for haulage purposes, be taxed in the same proportion as if it were a high-powered commercial vehicle?

Mr. MacEntee

Ordinary tractors do not come under this.

Mr. Bennett

If they are used in a combination, will they not come under it?

Mr. MacEntee

Ordinary tractors are not used in combinations of this sort.

Mr. Cosgrave

Is the proposal in this case to tax people bringing horses to hunt meets?

Mr. MacEntee

It will depend on how they bring the horses there.

Mr. Cosgrave

On trailers. They bring them on trailers to the meet. Is it proposed to tax them?

Mr. MacEntee

Not in that case, because they are quite different.

Mr. Cosgrave

Are trailers for carrying hunters to a meet taxed in this case, or is it proposed to tax them? I do not know whether the Minister knows it or not, but the roads are not particularly suitable at present for horses going to and from meets, and similarly in the case of shows. Horses are jumped at shows and they are sometimes driven to the shows by road for a distance of 20 or 30 miles in trailers. It is as much as a horse is worth sometimes to put him out on the tar macadam roads which are so highly polished. Is it proposed to tax those particular trailers?

Mr. MacEntee

It was not the intention, and it is not the intention to deal with the trailer, which is obviously quite a separate unit altogether from the tractor which draws it. In the case the Deputy has in mind, there is a complete motor vehicle used as a tractor. The Deputy talked about a motor car, but under the existing Act trailers are not taxable if they are attached to a complete unitary vehicle consisting of the engine and the body for the conveyance of either passengers or goods. In that case, the trailer is not taxed. I assume from what the Deputy has said that that is the sort of case he has in mind.

Mr. Cosgrave

That is one of them.

Mr. MacEntee

It was the only one the Deputy mentioned, and that is the one he has given to the House. In that case, the trailer would not be taxed.

Mr. Cosgrave

Would the Minister give the House some indication of what is being taxed?

Mr. MacEntee

The Minister has already explained to the House very fully what is being taxed.

Mr. Cosgrave

I must say it is not clear to me.

General Mulcahy

I wonder could the Minister say whether the type of thing he is referring to here is the type of thing which he could easily identify for the House, say, for commercial work in the distribution of goods around a town, on agricultural work in the carrying out of some agricultural process in the country or in some manufacturing work. So far as I can gather from the Minister, he has not identified in any way for what part of the commercial or economic life of the country anything is being used such as he wishes to cover here. I take it that it ought to be quite easy for the Minister to indicate the line of work on which a contrivance like this is being employed.

Mr. MacEntee

I am afraid that if Deputies do not understand what a tractor is and if they are not familiar with recent developments in road transport, I cannot convey exactly what is meant by a verbal description. The Deputy no doubt has seen lorries going around, consisting, first of all, of a tractor portion which is a separate unit generally mounted upon four wheels—it may sometimes be mounted on two wheels—and secondly, of a carrying portion consisting of a lorry or platform generally, and almost always mounted on two wheels and, in the case dealt with in the Resolution mounted on two wheels. The front part of the carrying portion is superimposed on the tractive unit and has hitherto been regarded as a trailer and not subject to duty. Though the total weight of the complete vehicle consisting of the carrying portion, which cannot move of its own accord and the tractor portion which draws it may be considerable and such as would bring it within the higher ranges of duty which we have here of £75 and £105, nevertheless, because the tractor portion is comparatively light, the whole unit only pays duty at a very much smaller rate. It is to catch that sort of case that this section is intended.

General Mulcahy

Do I understand that these two particular types will be caught under it, first, the farmer who has a tractor——

Mr. MacEntee

No, he will not.

General Mulcahy

——and uses it for general agricultural work? If he has a particular type of carriage in which he brings lambs, sheep or pigs into market and he draws that by means of a tractor into the city, as the Minister may sometimes have seen, will he be stopped at some of the bridges in the city and be asked for a particular kind of licence which will make the thing a motor car? The Minister has also seen tractors belonging either to a brewery in the city or a biscuit manufacturing establishment in the city with a particular type of carriage, made, no doubt, particularly for the tractor, behind it. Will that particular type of contrivance be caught under this?

Mr. MacEntee

It will depend on the construction of it. If the Deputy would explain to me the construction of the carrier he has in mind, I would possibly be able to tell him whether it will or not, but, at any rate, so far as the tractor used for haulage solely in connection with agriculture is concerned, it will not be affected by this Resolution.

Mr. Haslett

Are we to understand from the Minister that the ordinary passenger touring car, to which is attached a small trailer in which are carried vegetables and those types of things, will be affected?

Mr. MacEntee

No.

Mr. Good

Will caravans come under this?

Mr. MacEntee

I do not think so— not if they are drawn by an ordinary passenger car.

Mr. Curran

Nor vans attached for the conveyance of horses?

Mr. MacEntee

No, not if they are drawn by vehicles which already pay duty at its proper rate.

Additional Financial Resolution No. 2 agreed to.

Additional Financial Resolutions Nos. 1 and 2 reported and agreed to.