In Committee on Finance. - Local Government (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill, 1934—Committee.
Sections 1, 2 and 3 put and agreed to.
SECTION 4.
(1) On the request at any time (whether before or after the passing of this Act) of the council of a county, the Minister may, if he so thinks fit, make an order (in this Act referred to as a dividing order)—
(a) declaring that there shall be, as from the commencement of such order, a specified number (not less than two) of rural sanitary districts in such county, and
(b) specifying the portion of such county which is to be included in and constitute each such rural sanitary district and, so far as may be requisite, defining the boundaries of each such rural sanitary district, and
(c) appointing a day, not less than three months after the date of such order, to be the appointed day for the purposes of such order.
(2) Every dividing order shall come into operation on the day which is appointed by such order to be the appointed day for the purposes thereof.
I move amendment (a):—
2. Before Section 4 (but in Part I), to insert as follows:—
(1) The Minister may before exercising any power conferred on him by this Act hold a public inquiry into the matter which is the subject of such exercise of such power.
(2) Article 32 of the Schedule to the Local Government (Application of Enactments) Order, 1898, shall apply in respect of every public inquiry held under this section of this Act in like manner as the said Article applies in respect of the local inquiries mentioned therein.
This amendment is meant to confer power on the Minister to hold a public inquiry into any matter which is the subject of the exercise of the powers conferred on him by the Bill. I think it was an oversight that this was not included in the original draft.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Section 4, as amended, agreed to.
SECTION 5.
(1) Whenever the Minister has made a dividing order, he may, if he so thinks fit on the request of the council of the county to which such dividing order relates, by order, made at any time before the day which is the appointed day for the purposes of such dividing order, alter in such manner as shall be specified in such request the number of members of such council.
(2) An order made by the Minister under this section shall, without any confirmation by the Oireachtas, come into operation and have effect on and after the first triennial election of members of the council to which such order relates held after the said appointed day.
I move amendment (b):—
In sub-section (1), lines 15 to 16, to delete the words "shall be specified in such request" and to substitute therefor the words "he shall think fit."
It is considered that this amendment is necessary in order to avoid the possibility of the scheme becoming inoperative if the Minister could only vary the number of members of the council as specified in the request, and if he disagreed with the terms of the request, a deadlock would probably be reached and the scheme would become ineffective. It is considered that it would be an improvement in the Bill to give the Minister discretionary power to fix the number of members. It is anticipated that there will not be any difficulty. We have already got agreement as to the number that should constitute the new council. The amendment is to cover the possibility of future contingencies when the powers conferred on the Minister under this Bill might be applied to another area.
Amendment put and agreed to.
I move amendment (c):—
In sub-section (2), line 19, to delete the word "triennial" and to insert before the word "members" the word "the".
This is only a drafting amendment. It is possible that an election other than a triennial election might take place and, if it were not a triennial election, as the draft stands the scheme could not become operative until the next triennial election after that.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Section 5, as amended, agreed to.
Sections 6 to 10, inclusive, put and agreed to.
SECTION 11.
(1) Save as is otherwise provided by this section, every debt and other liability (including stock and mortgage debts and also including unliquidated liabilities arising from torts or breaches of contract) which, immediately before the appointed day, is owing and unpaid or has been incurred and is undischarged by the existing board shall, on and from the appointed day, become and be the debt or liability of the council and shall be paid or discharged by and may be recovered from or enforced against the council accordingly.
(2) Where the existing board is a board of health and public assistance, this section shall not operate to transfer to the council any debt or liability which was incurred by the existing board in the performance of its functions for the relief of the poor.
(3) If any doubt, dispute, or question shall arise whether any particular debt or liability is excluded by the next preceding sub-section of this section from the transfer to the council effected by this section, such doubt, dispute or question shall be decided by the Minister, whose decision thereon shall be final.
(4) The transfer to the council by this section of any debt or liability shall not affect the chargeability of the expenses of paying or discharging such debt or liability.
I move amendment No. 1:
In page 6, to add at the end of the section a new sub-section as follows:—
(5) Where the area of charge for the expenses incurred by the council in the payment or discharge of a debt or liability of the existing board is coterminous with or wholly within a new district, all payments made by the council in payment, or discharge of such debt or liability shall be made through and by the board of health for such new district.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Section 11, as amended, put and agreed to.
SECTION 12.
(1) The following provisions shall apply in respect of the area of charge for any expenses incurred by the council in the payment of a liability of the existing board incurred in the execution of the Labourers (Ireland) Acts, 1883 to 1931, (including the expenses of repaying loans borrowed for the purposes of those Acts), that is to say:—
(a) where such liability was incurred before the 1st day of April, 1933, such expenses shall be charged on the new district in which is situate the area upon which such expenses were charged at the date on which they were so incurred; or, if such area is situate in more than one new district, on such new districts in proportion to the valuation of the portion of such area situate in each such new district respectively;
(b) where such liability was incurred after the 1st day of April, 1933, so much of such expenses as was incurred for the purpose of the provision of cottages in an area forming part of a new district or in relation to any cottages so provided in such an area shall be charged on such new district.
(2) Subject to the provisions of the next preceding sub-section of this section and to any agreed adjustments made under this Act, the expenses of repaying any liability of the existing board which is transferred to the council by this Part of this Act shall, on and after the appointed day, be charged on the area on which it was charged immediately before the appointed day.
(3) If any doubt, dispute, or question shall arise as to the area of charge for the expenses of repaying any liability of the existing board which is transferred to the council under this Act, such doubt, dispute or question shall be decided by the Minister whose decision thereon shall be final.
I move amendment No. 2:—
In sub-section (1), (b), page 6, line 18, after the word "incurred" to insert the words "on or".
This is merely a drafting amendment.
Amendment put and agreed to.
I move amendment No. 3:—
In sub-section (2), page 6, line 26, after the word "Act" to insert the words "and without prejudice to any power of altering an area of charge for the time being exercisable under any other Act (whether passed before or after this Act)".
This is also a drafting amendment.
Amendment No. 3 put and agreed to.
Section 12, as amended, put and agreed to.
Sections 13 to 20, inclusive, put and agreed to.
Question proposed: "That Section 21 stand part of the Bill."
I should like to draw the Parliamentary Secretary's attention to some peculiarities in our present system in Cork, which, if the Bill is allowed to pass in its present form, might create some hardships and some injustice. The Parliamentary Secretary knows that in Cork County at the present time we have three separate and independent boards of assistance and one county board of health, with three health committees for the northern, southern and western portions of the county. The secretary of the county board of health is the secretary of the county council. While he is officially the secretary of the county board of health, I have in mind the fact that the principal executive work of the county board of health is discharged by an official who is a deputy to the secretary of the county board of health—Mr. Wrenne. He is responsible for the executive side of the county board of health work. Looking over the Bill as it stands at the present time, having regard to the fact that the staff for the three boards of health would appear to be contained in the officials who work the various committees of the board of health at present, I am afraid his case might be easily forgotten.
I do not think there would be any desire on the part of the Department to do so. The official concerned is a most excellent man. There might be one or two cases of a similar kind in the county, but this one is certainly outstanding. I should be very glad if the Parliamentary Secretary had an opportunity of looking into the matter, between this and the next stage, to see if there would be a possibility of agreement on an amendment which would clear up the position which might be embodied in the Bill at the next stage. I am sorry I had not an opportunity of speaking to the Parliamentary Secretary about the matter, but I was reminded of it to-day when I read the Bill more closely.
I think it would be better if the Deputy had discussed the matter with me. I am not clear as to what particular point he was trying to make. If he finds that the case he had in mind is not covered by the Bill we may be able to get an adjustment.
Sections 21 and 22 agreed to.
Report Stage ordered for Wednesday, December 5.
