I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time." I do not propose to say anything on this stage of the Bill as so much of the time allocated to it has already been taken up by the Opposition. I would like, however, to point out that one of the Orders to be confirmed by this Bill, the one to which greatest exception has been taken by the Opposition—it is included in the Bill because we regard it as a matter of urgency and, therefore, it becomes such, since the passage of the Bill is a matter of urgency—is the Order which, in fact, would substitute for the 33? per cent. import duty on motor tyres a 7½ per cent. Excise duty on motor tyres manufactured here, and which would mean a considerable reduction in the revenue to be derived by the Exchequer and, therefore, a considerable reduction in the taxation to be borne by the citizens.
Imposition of Duties (Confirmation of Orders) Bill, 1935. - Imposition of Duties (Confirmation of Orders) Bill, 1935—Second Stage.
The Minister might give a little more information with regard to tyres. The Minister for Industry and Commerce told us that tyres would be manufactured in this country at a price 15 per cent. higher than the manufactured price in England, but that there would be an Excise duty put on, on account of the increased cost of importing raw materials owing to production being smaller than in other places. The Minister might tell us why the imposition of an additional tax on motorists is required, and generally might say a little more on this Bill. When the Emergency Imposition of Duties Bill was originally introduced the Minister for Finance stated:—
"...the trade relations between this country and Great Britain are such that for every penny piece which she robs from us by a tariff upon our agricultural produce we can recoup ourselves by a tariff upon her manufactures."
One of the heavy impositions being confirmed in this Bill is a tax on pigs killed here for the purpose of taking the money so raised and adding it to whatever carcases of pigs or bacon we can force in on the British market, with the inducement of having some Irish pounds attached to it. One of the main items being put through in this way, without any separate discussion, is this item. Instead of inflicting any disability on Great Britain or the British buyer, it inflicts disability on the consumer of pork here, by taking the increased tax and throwing it over to Great Britain to make pig products cheaper there.
Dr. Ryan
It does not make them cheaper.
It makes them cheaper for John Bull.
Dr. Ryan
No.
If John Bull gets a piece of Irish pork or carcases of pigs, with a couple of Irish pounds tacked on, does he not get them cheaper?
Dr. Ryan
Not at all.
That is all the more reason why the Minister for Finance or the Minister for Agriculture should say something about this.
Dr. Ryan
I did not get time.
I will give you time when I put one other point. When introducing this measure on June 12, 1932, the Minister for Finance said, in column 1004 of the Parliamentary Debates:
"The powers which we are seeking are wide; they are sweeping. I do not want to disguise that fact either from the Oireachtas or from the people of the country. They give the Executive Council power to impose stamp duties and duties of Customs and Excise with every possible variation of such duties that can be thought of or that may be found to be necessary. But if the powers are wide and sweeping they are not more than are required to deal with the present situation. They will be used with prudence, with moderation and with foresight, and the exercise of them will be subject to review and subsequent confirmation by the Dáil. I said that it was not our purpose to attack, but if the doors of the British markets are closed to us, then it is our duty and the duty of the Dáil to give the Executive all the powers that may be necessary to find markets elsewhere. We are confident that such markets can be found."
I should like to assist the Minister for Agriculture to stick to one point. Why are we raising money to throw over to Great Britain with our pig products? Why are we taxing our own people instead of raising taxes from the British people, in the way the Minister for Finance said we could? Why are we sending these products to the British market instead of finding markets elsewhere? What did the Minister for Agriculture mean when he said that as soon as this Bill became operative, which he expected would not be sooner than July 1, as far as the Department of Agriculture was concerned, he would ask that no further levy through the Revenue Commissioners would be raised? In the first three months it raised £107,000. The Minister for Agriculture is aware of the circumstances under which it was imposed. He is also aware of the circumstances under which the tariff on cement was imposed. Will he state that as soon as the new fees are being levied by the Pigs and Bacon Boards this tax will cease?
It is regrettable that an opportunity is not given for discussion on this Bill. The first item in the Bill dealing with the levy on pigs is an absolute breach of faith with the House and the country. I am sure it was never intended that any Government that was given special powers in an emergency would use them, not against the enemy, but against the people of this country. This levy on pigs makes it possible for England to get cheap bacon from us.
Dr. Ryan
It does not.
Very well, withdraw the subsidy. This tax has been levied ostensibly to give a subsidy to Britain. If you withdraw that will Britain get any bacon from us?
Dr. Ryan
No.
Then we are beaten, and we have to fall back and to eat our own tails. We are beaten if we have to tax the Irish people in order to lift the surplus that otherwise would rot here, and to give it to England.
Dr. Ryan
God help you.
God has helped me. I wish God would give you a little help. This thing was done in secret.
Dr. Ryan
It was not.
Was it done with the authority of this House?
Dr. Ryan
Yes, last November.
What has it to be brought up here for so?
What was the authority of the House?
Dr. Ryan
The extra tax was conferred last November.
It was not confirmed.
The Pigs and Bacon Bill was introduced in December, and the Second Reading came on about March. A Spcial Committee which was set up to expedite matters, was told that the Minister wanted this Bill in operation by July 1st. Why is it not in operation? The Minister is aware of the special case made by the Pig Producers' and Feeders' Association when giving evidence before the Pig Tribunal, that they are anxious that this tax should be remitted and that the other proposal should function. Many of these unfortunate people have all they possess invested in pigs. Some of them have 100 or 150 sows and are fattening the produce. The Minister has a good idea of the amount of money and anxiety that is involved in a business like that. Although those people did not get everything they wanted, they preferred to co-operate and were told that this Bill would be in operation on July 1st. Their grievance was that the tax of 10/- a carcase was too much. They really believed that they were to get the entire benefit of the 10/- by way of helping exports. I quoted a statement made by the Minister for Finance in the Budget in which he said that he could not afford to remit this tax. I put this question to the Minister for Agriculture: Was he doing his duty by agriculture when he allowed the Minister for Finance to impose a tax on pig carcases, ostensibly to help the export of bacon, and thereby helping the trade in bacon in this country and outside it?
Dr. Ryan
Misquote so that I cannot reply.
Whose fault is it?
Dr. Ryan
Yours.
If I gave the Minister time he could not answer. These are the facts. The Minister for Finance said he would not let the tax go until the levy under the Pigs and Bacon Marketing Boards is functioning. He will not let it go until he gets something else.
Dr. Ryan
No.
The idea in putting 6d. on imported wheat was in the hope of helping Irish agriculture.
Dr. Ryan
I cannot help you.
I put it to the Minister that the Minister for Finance said that in lieu of this tax he imposed 6d. per cwt. on imported wheat in order to help agriculture. Will that 6d. per cwt. on imported wheat help Irish agriculture?
Dr. Ryan
It has nothing to do with this.
It has nothing to do with this? The Minister for Agriculture will not answer that.
Dr. Ryan
I cannot answer it now. It is too late now.
Tá
- Aiken, Frank.
- Beegan, Patrick.
- Boland, Gerald.
- Bourke, Daniel.
- Brady, Brian.
- Breathnach, Cormac.
- Breen, Daniel.
- Briscoe, Robert.
- Doherty, Hugh.
- Donnelly, Eamon.
- Dowdall, Thomas P.
- Flynn, Stephen.
- Fogarty, Andrew.
- Geoghegan, James.
- Gibbons, Seán.
- Goulding, John.
- Harris, Thomas.
- Hayes, Seán.
- Keely, Séamus P.
- Kelly, James Patrick.
- Kelly, Thomas.
- Kilroy, Michael.
- Kissane, Eamonn.
- Lemass, Seán F.
- Little, Patrick John.
- Maguire, Ben.
- Maguire, Conor Alexander.
- Concannon, Helena.
- Cooney, Eamonn.
- Corbett, Edmond.
- Crowley, Fred. Hugh.
- Crowley, Timothy.
- Daly, Denis.
- Derrig, Thomas.
- De Valera, Eamon.
- Moane, Edward.
- Moore, Séamus.
- Murphy, Patrick Stephen.
- O Briain, Donnchadh.
- O Ceallaigh, Seán T.
- O'Dowd, Patrick.
- O'Grady, Seán.
- O'Reilly, Matthew.
- Pearse, Margaret Mary.
- Ruttledge, Patrick Joseph.
- Ryan, James.
- Ryan, Martin.
- Ryan, Robert.
- Sheridan, Michael.
- Smith, Patrick.
- Victory, James.
- Walsh, Richard.
- Ward, Francis C.
Níl
- Alton, Ernest Henry.
- Beckett, James Walter.
- Belton, Patrick.
- Bennett, George Cecil.
- Bourke, Séamus.
- Brennan, Michael.
- Coburn, James.
- Cosgrave, William T.
- Costello, John Aloysius.
- Daly, Patrick.
- Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
- Doyle, Peadar S.
- Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.
- Fagan, Charles.
- Fitzgerald, Desmond.
- Fitzgerald-Kenney, James.
- Lavery, Cecil.
- MacEoin, Seán.
- McGilligan, Patrick.
- McMenamin, Daniel.
- Morrisroe, James.
- Morrissey, Daniel.
- Mulcahy, Richard.
- Murphy, James Edward.
- Nally, Martin.
- O'Higgins, Thomas Francis.
- O'Leary, Daniel.
- O'Mahony, The.
- O'Sullivan, Gearóid.
- O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
- Redmond, Bridget Mary.
- Rice, Vincent.
- Wall, Nicholas.