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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 27 Nov 1935

Vol. 59 No. 9

Private Deputies' Business. - The Agricultural Industry—Incidence of Special Duties—Motion Resumed.

Debate resumed on the following motion:—
That a Select Committee be set up to inquire into the incidence of the special duties collected by the British Government on Saorstát agricultural produce and to report on ways and means whereby the burden of the economic war will be equitably borne by all sections of the community;
That the Committee consist of eleven members who shall be nominated by the Committee of Selection;
That the Committee have power to send for persons, papers and records.—(Deputies Belton and Kent.)

This motion, asking the House to set up a committee to investigate the incidence of British penal tariffs, was intended to put that case and no other. What we asked for has been hidden in a maze of irrelevancies by the speakers who set out to handle the agricultural policy by giving their opinions on it and so on. Very little attention was given to the request in the motion. Whether the growing of wheat, the growing of beet, and other phases of the Government's agricultural policy is sound or unsound we did not contemplate a discussion on these lines. I do not think that remarks which I consider to be irrelevant, and which clouded the issue, call for a reply. At another time I will give my opinion on the agricultural policy, not now. I made a case of substantial accuracy in my previous remarks. That is all that is required on this motion. I hold that I made a substantially accurate case when I pointed out that agriculture was losing £6,000,000 a year through the operation of these tariffs. I did not ask the Government to accept that case. They did not even put up a speaker with any knowledge to refute it. Perhaps that might be the most eloquent criticism of the Government's action. Our case is made at every cross roads and at every meeting house regardless of the auspices under which these meetings are called. I do not care whether they are held under the auspices of Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, or Labour. Nobody dissents from the case we are making. It will be good reading for opponents of the Government, and bad reading for their supporters, if they do not accept this motion, particularly when the Government put up no spokesman to deal with this question in an intelligent way. The case we made was that agriculture is losing about £6,000,000 a year owing to these tariffs and we merely asked that a committee should be set up to investigate that position. That is a very reasonable request. If it is not granted it shows that the Government is afraid of something.

The Government told us many times during the economic war that they were looking around the world for markets. That same Government, when offered a present of a market, turned it down and prevented farmers availing of it. In the last year Yugo-Slavia sent 141,213 live cattle to Italy. First quality fat heifers and bullocks can be purchased in the Dublin cattle market at 21/- and 22/- per cwt. live weight; second quality fat heifers and bullocks can be purchased from 17/- to 18/- per cwt. live weight. Fat bulls and cows which are not, I suppose, fit for Roscrea factory can be purchased from 15/- to 16/- per cwt. live weight. The average weight per beast would be about 11 cwt. live weight, or 550 kilos. The cost of transport per beast to the Port of Naples, including freight, loading and unloading, on the basis of a full boat load of 250 or 300 fat cattle would be £4 per head and allowing £2 for feeding and insurance, the total cost per head would be £6. On the basis that first quality fat heifers and bullocks weigh 550 kilos live weight they would be delivered at an Italian port for about £18. Second quality heifers and bullocks could be delivered at £16 and bulls and cows about £15 per head. These calculations are only estimated, however, in order to show what the probable cost would work out at in the transaction. It would be necessary to allow wastage of 10 per cent., live weight, due to the sea journey, so that 550 kilos would amount on arrival at an Italian port to——

Is this in order?

Does the Deputy think he is dealing with item No. 18?

The Deputy will ride his hobby horse round and round.

The Deputy is able to keep the Minister silent in matters of a constructive nature.

The difficulty with the Deputy is that he is not able to keep himself silent.

Somebody has to speak when the Minister will not speak. Somebody has to know something when the Minister does not know it. The Minister, to conceal his ignorance, has to keep silent. The Minister who presumes to represent one of the leading agricultural counties in the Free State——

The Deputy must get back to the motion.

I made the case, in moving this motion and in winding up, that agriculture is losing £6,000,000 on the economic war. As a set off, the Government has endeavoured to find a market on the Continent of Europe. They have spent money in exploring that continental market. They have not got it, but here the opportunity presented itself and they threw it away.

Even if the Italian market were available, it would not alter the incidence of the penal taxes.

We would not have to pay them. We have to pay the taxes only when we send produce to Great Britain on which they can levy them. If we got a market in a country where no such taxes were levied, the present taxes would not fall on agriculturists or on any other section of the people. I am endeavouring to show in a detailed way that the market presented itself——

I submit that it is entirely out of order to prove any such thing in a detailed way. That is quite apart from the question as to whether or not an inquiry should be held.

If that is out of order, I do not know how many miles previous speakers were out of order when they discussed wheat and beet—matters to which I do not intend to reply. Perhaps the thorny question of sanctions pricks people. It is not palatable, after the loss the country has sustained, to point to the rush to interfere with other people's business while neglecting our own.

I think the Deputy might pass from that.

The net profit we would make on our cattle by sending them to Italy, prior to sanctions coming into force, would be £3 per head. I do not think anybody will endeavour to refute that, especially when they do not like to hear it. I think it would be only wasting the time of the House to say any more on this subject.

Hear, hear.

We find a Minister who represents an agricultural constituency and who did not get up to speak to this motion, interjecting "Hear, hear." The Minister knows nothing about this country except what the four walls of a house present to him. When we have the country run by people of that kind, we cannot expect anything else but to have various burdens falling on the wrong shoulders. The case has been presented fairly and squarely to the House. If this committee is set up, it will be presented to the committee. It is because the Government know that such a case can be presented and cannot be refuted that they will not agree to this motion. Deputy Corry said that any committee that would be set up could be got to report any way the Government wanted it to report. I do not believe that the Government or any political Party could get a committee, set up under the machinery provided here, to report in any way except on the evidence before them. The country would be looking on and would judge their actions. I hope the country will judge the actions of the Government and of the Opposition on this motion. Those members of the Opposition who have spoken have spoken against the motion, notwithstanding that they adopted at their last Ard-Fheis a resolution similar to this motion. I read the resolution when I was winding up the other day, and I am not going to refer to it now.

We did not go into the question of the economic war. We did not want that introduced. The duties are there and are levied on our goods when they go over. Our stuff when it goes across is sold at the market price ruling there. The amount of the tariffs is taken out of the return to the exporter so that it comes directly out of the exporter's pocket. He sends it down the line. In buying stock for export, he has to bear in mind that he has to pay £6 per head tariff for certain beef and he buys accordingly. There is no question of that being distributed amongst any other section of the community. It comes out of the income of the agricultural producers. Our request is simply to have that transaction inquired into by a committee set up by this House. If political Parties vote against that request, it is for the country to take notice of their action. If the country is satisfied with the action of political Parties in opposing that request, I think Deputy Kent, Deputy MacDermot, I and other supporters of this motion will be able to bear the brunt of the struggle as well as those who are opposing our motion. We shall see who will squeal first.

Question put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 10; Níl: 59.

Tá.

  • Anthony, Richard.
  • Belton, Patrick.
  • Bourke, Séamus.
  • Brodrick, Seán.
  • Burke, Patrick.
  • Haslett, Alexander.
  • Kent, William Rice.
  • MacDermot, Frank.
  • MacEoin, Seán.
  • McGovern, Patrick.

Níl.

  • Aiken, Frank.
  • Bartley, Gerald.
  • Beegan, Patrick.
  • Boland, Gerald.
  • Bourke, Daniel.
  • Brady, Brian.
  • Briscoe, Robert.
  • Concannon, Helena.
  • Cooney, Eamonn.
  • Corbett, Edmond.
  • Corkery, Daniel.
  • Crowley, Fred. Hugh.
  • Crowley, Timothy.
  • Daly, Denis.
  • Derrig, Thomas.
  • de Valera, Eamon.
  • Doherty, Hugh.
  • Donnelly, Eamon.
  • Flynn, John.
  • Flynn, Stephen.
  • Fogarty, Andrew.
  • Geoghegan, James.
  • Gibbons, Seán.
  • Goulding, John.
  • Hales, Thomas.
  • Harris, Thomas.
  • Houlihan, Patrick.
  • Jordan, Stephen.
  • Keely, Séamus P.
  • Kehoe, Patrick.
  • Kelly, James Patrick.
  • Kelly, Thomas.
  • Kilroy, Michael.
  • Kissane, Eamonn.
  • Lemass, Seán F.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • MacEntee, Seán.
  • Maguire, Conor Alexander.
  • Moane, Edward.
  • Moylan, Seán.
  • Murphy, Timothy Joseph.
  • Norton, William.
  • O'Briain, Donnchadh.
  • O Ceallaigh, Seán T.
  • O'Doherty, Joseph.
  • O'Grady, Seán.
  • O'Reilly, Matthew.
  • Pattison, James P.
  • Pearse, Margaret Mary.
  • Rice, Edward.
  • Ruttledge, Patrick Joseph.
  • Ryan, James.
  • Ryan, Martin.
  • Sheridan, Michael.
  • Smith, Patrick.
  • Traynor, Oscar.
  • Victory, James.
  • Walsh, Richard.
  • Ward, Francis C.
Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Belton and Kent; Níl: Deputies Moylan and Smith.
Motion declared lost.
Barr
Roinn