Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 26 Nov 1936

Vol. 64 No. 7

Private Deputies' Business. - Rhynana Air Base—Workers' Wages.

Mr. Hogan

I move:—

That the Dáil disapproves of the low rate of wages now paid to workers employed by the Commissioners of Public Works in connection with the construction of a transatlantic air base at Rhynana, Newmarket-on-Fergus, County Clare.

The case I am asking the Dáil to pass an opinion on is very easy of presentation. It does not require any effort on my part, any rhetoric, any word-setting, nor will any false reasoning on the part of the Government divert the decision that is likely to ensue from the facts I am going to lay before the House. This matter concerns the State and the individual. It concerns the Dáil also, as protecting the individual, in the circumstances of his necessity, from the oppression of the State, whether conscious or otherwise of the circumstances of his necessity.

The Government are highly elated because they have put the Irish Free State on the aerial map of the world and because, despite Kipling's dictum that "East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet," there is the possibility that East may meet West on the plains of Thradaree, at Rhynana, Newmarket-on-Fergus. The Dáil endorsed that action on the part of the Executive, and we are to be one of the termini of this inter-imperial, transocean, cross-continent, air transport service. I do not intend in this motion to discuss the merits of that decision. The initial activities consequent on that decision are under way. The responsibilities of this State are definitely limited both as regards the capital outlay and as to any deficit that may arise in the working of the air transport service. The Minister's words, however, when introducing this measure, are significant and relevant. They will be found in Volume 63, No. 6, column 2360 of the Official Debates. He said:

"The capital of the joint company will be subscribed and held as to 51 per cent. by the United Kingdom company, 24½ per cent. by the Canadian company, and 24½ per cent. by the Saorstát company. The control of commercial, technical and operating matters will be secured to the United Kingdom company through its majority stockholding, and through the medium of the articles of association of the joint company, subject to the superior jurisdiction of the board of directors on questions of major policy."

I would ask Deputies to remember that that is the relevant background, when they endeavour to picture the needy Clare worker engaged in producing this almost world-wide air transport service at a wage of 27/- per week. He has to try to maintain a family on it and to maintain his own strength to do the work necessary for the carrying out of this operation. In column 2360, we find the Minister further stating:

"In return for landing facilities to be granted to the joint company by the United States Government, Pan-American Airways will be granted landing facilities by the Governments of Saorstát Eireann, the United Kingdom, Canada and Newfoundland; and that company will participate on a basis of reciprocity with the joint company in the operation of the services."

That is the relevant background. Remember that it is to a mighty Empire, a powerful Republic and an extensive and wealthy Dominion that we are affording facilities. We are one of the legs of the tripod, and against that background I want you to picture the needy Clare worker, trying to make an existence and affording facilities to that powerful Empire, that wealthy Republic and that extensive Dominion. He is the man who is providing the facilities; he is the man who is making the sacrifices in respect of it. Fortified by the guarantees as to capital outlay; fortified by the guarantees as to working expenses, and as to whatever deficits may arise in that connection, if and when they do arise; fortified by the provision that the Saorstát is not to bear any higher cost than £12,000, we find that the Government initiates the work upon this Rhynana scheme.

There was first erected there a powerful transmitting wireless station and it is to be regretted that the first message that powerful transmitting wireless station should send to the world was: "Starvation wages are being paid at Rhynana on the scheme initiated and being carried through by the Irish Free State Government to afford transatlantic, transocean, across-continent, inter-imperial air transport services." That is the first message it had to send to a listening world, if the world were listening. That is the message it continues to send and that is the message it must continue to send unless this Dáil stops the scandal. The agricultural worker in England is getting something like 33/- a week. His wage is higher, and what is his work in comparison with the work being done on the constructional operations at the proposed air base at Rhynana? Can it be said that it is anything nearly as severe, nearly as arduous? Can it be said that the agricultural worker in England will require as much food or will require the same quality of food to repair wasted tissue and restore expended energy. It cannot, and no Minister and no Government can say it can. The Canadian navvy will probably get a wage approximating to between £4 and £5 in value of English money on the construction work at the other leg of the tripod of these air transport services. The question I want to put seriously to the Minister and to the Deputy in charge is: Have Canada and Great Britain succeeded in imposing upon us a standard of living which they would not impose on themselves?

Mr. McGuire

He is not listening.

Mr. Hogan

I am glad that Deputy McGuire is listening, and I am glad the rest of the House is listening, even if the Deputy in charge of this particular matter is not listening. It is not necessary for him to listen because he knows it already. He knows that there is no answer to the statements I am making and when he gets up to reply, he will find that he has no answer to make. Canada and Great Britain must have succeeded, then, in forcing upon this Government a decision to introduce into this State a standard of wages and a standard of living far below what Canada, and Great Britain would agree to in respect of themselves. If that is not the position, on what is the standard based? On what do they base this wage? That is an interesting inquiry. Probably the first thing that influenced the Government in establishing this standard was the fact that there are sufficient people in want to accept that standard, that there are sufficient people unemployed and in need of sustenance to take that wage and to accept that standard of living. I do not think that even the political head of the Board of Works would have the temerity to stand up and say that the fact that there are sufficient people in need is a satisfactory reason for the introduction of that rate of wages and its imposition on the workers of Clare. I do not think he will because that would not tally with the alleged Christian administration within a Christian social order about which we heard and still hear a good deal.

This is a great national service, we are told. It is not alone a State service; it is a national service. It is not alone a national service; it is an international service. And we have in the picture, as I indicated a moment ago, a powerful Empire, a powerful Republic and a powerful Dominion. Let us measure this wage by any standard you care to set up. If you regard the working man as a mere machine, into which you pour sufficient material to maintain him to carry on the work in which you have employed him, are you giving him, at the rate of 27/- per week, sufficient wage to enable him to carry on the heavy navvy work he has to do at Rhynana on that air base?

Do not imagine a Clare worker to be anything more or anything greater than a mere machine, a machine to which you will only allow sufficient to enable it to carry on. Do you think that on 27/- a week you can give such a man sufficient food, sufficient of what the body needs, to enable him to carry on? We were told last night and it was not disputed—I do not think it can be disputed—on the authority of the British Medical Association that the least sum necessary to maintain a man, his wife and three children, just to maintain life in them, was £1 4s. 0d. per week. That was the sum necessary in 1933, to give them sufficient food, and let me underline the word "food," in order to maintain them in such a state of health that they might just live. If the Government thinks of a labourer only as a human machine, does it consider that 27/- a week is capable of maintaining a single man to carry on the work which he is supposed to carry on at these constructional works at Rhynana, Newmarket-on-Fergus? Possibly the Parliamentary Secretary and the Minister for Finance may have a higher social ideal for working men. I am quite ready to believe that the Minister, who dabbled in poetry at one period of his life, might have a higher ideal for the working man than to think of him as a mere human machine. He might consider that he should have a home. He might consider that he would be entitled to have a family. If he does not insist definitely and conclusively on a single man standard for employment at Rhynana, then what standard does he think that a man, his wife and family can maintain on 27/- a week?

Let us forget the British Medical Association, let us forget data lines and all the other appurtenances with which the cost-of-living figures are surrounded. Let us try to get a small family budget sufficient to maintain a man, his wife and three children. Let us start with bread alone, and if Deputies, or those people who occupy high positions, go into the matter they will find that a man, his wife and three children will spend 12/- a week on bread alone. The price of bread has gone up, of course, in the last few years. They will want at least two bags of coal per week. These will cost 5/4. A quart of milk daily, which is not an excessive quantity for such a family, will cost 2/7½ per week. Three lbs. of butter will cost 3/-.

Mr. Everett

Where would you get butter for 1/- per lb.?

Mr. Hogan

He will get country butter, as opposed to dairy butter at that price. I have gone to the trouble of checking these prices against actual purchases. These are not items put down without any reference whatever to the actual state of affairs. I have actually checked these prices against actual purchases. At the minimum, 3 lbs. of butter will cost 3/-, ½ lb. of tea ?, half a stone of sugar 1/10, rent 3/-, light and soap 1/-. On my calculation at least 30/- per week is necessary to purchase sufficient of these commodities for a man, his wife and three children. Mind you, in that calculation, I have not included any meat, not even a Sunday meat dinner. I have not included eggs or vegetables, clothing, insurance or tobacco. I have not included any papers which the working man might buy so that he might have the advantage, doubtful though it is, of reading some of the speeches of Ministers when they go down the country telling us about the Christian social order, that they are going to introduce at some time in the near future. I have simply taken the smallest amount necessary to sustain life, to repair wasted issues, to replace expended energy.

Let us see the wages paid to workers by the Clare County Council. The Clare County Council pays 35/- per week to its workers and that is not an extraordinarily high standard. The North Tipperary County Council pays 35/- per week to these workers. Maintenance work under the Electricity Supply Board is paid for at the rate of 10d. per hour. Workers on the beet sugar factory are paid at the rate of 11d. an hour, and yet on this leg of the tripod—international, interimperial transoceanic, transcontinental, aerial transport service—this Government is asking workers to work at 27/- per week. Let us take even agricultural wages paid in that area. Practically all the agricultural labourers employed in Clare live indoor. That is to say, the amount of labour given apart from indoor workers is very casual. Let us take the position of what is generally known as a servant man or boy in these districts. He gets an average of £26 a year in cash and, in addition, gets board, laundry and his bed. I should like to ask the Parliamentary Secretary if he thinks these can be provided less than £1 per week for a man living indoor. That would mean that an agricultural labourer in that area is getting 30/- per week. That is based on the single man standard. It is based on a standard that does not give the right to a man to marry, to have a home and a family. Even last night we were told here during the discussion on the Agricultural Wages Bill that the average rate of wages paid to agricultural workers in Clare was £1 4s. 0d. per week. If the average rate is £1 4s. 0d., it means that there must be many farmers in that county who pay a good deal higher than £1 4s. 0d. Therefore, when I say that 30/- per week is the standard paid in that district I am not stretching the matter to any great extent.

Our time is limited. That is to be regretted because there are many things I should like to say. I can merely deal with the dry bones of the matter now. We hear a good deal of talk about a Christian wage. That possibly may have several interpretations. I do not know what the Government's interpretation of a Christian wage is, but it is a wage, I take it, that can be sanctioned by Christian principles. We have the highest Catholic authority describing it as a wage which will enable a man and his family to live in decent, frugal comfort. That is the highest Catholic authority's interpretation of what a Christian wage is, Might I ask the Parliamentary Secretary is it a wage that will give frugal comfort if it does not afford any meat or any vegetables, or any provision for clothing or insurance, or provision of any sort for old age?

Quite recently we had a more exact definition of what is a Christian wage. It comes from an important source. A leading divine in the Protestant community, speaking quite recently here in Dublin, went into somewhat greater detail regarding what a living wage is. He said: "A living wage is another important consideration. I suggest that £3 weekly is a living wage for a man and his wife and four children, and £4 for a man and his wife and six children." He does not say whether it should be a public employer, or a private employer. We were always led to believe that a public employer, and the Government in particular, should be the best employer, and when we are blessed with a Fianna Fáil administration surely the rate ought to go up in proportion to the standard which, in their programmes, they say that they set. Then we had an employer giving a standard of what the wage should be. We had Mr. Roantree at a conference at Oxford saying: "Regardless of what other firms in the same industry are paying, and capital should take no surplus profits until that is done. My human needs figure is to-day 53/6. The minimum rate for a single woman should be 30/-." Try and remember that in connection with the air base at Rhynana. Try and remember that in connection with the facilities that are to be extended to the Empire, to the Republic, to the Dominion, and see the Clare working man suffering all the difficulties, suffering all the hardships, making all the sacrifices, and wading waist deep in water. If you go on to a low plain and proceed to dig a canal, you will have to wade knee deep in water if you want to continue work. Rhynana is a tide-inundated place and if you proceed to dig a canal, or do extensive excavations in it you have to wade waist deep in water. The Board of Works are providing waders in order to deal with that.

You will have an idea then of what is the position of those workers. They have 27/- a week to maintain themselves and their wives and families, with insurance deducted. In a great many cases those people bring home sometimes 19/- or 20/- a week because of broken time. That is the position. If there is a shower in the morning they lose a quarter of the day. Then they come home with 19/- or £1 to their wives and families in order to try and carry them over to the next week, until they will have sufficient strength to go into the work again. I have been speaking to some strong Fianna Fáil supporters in that area, and they said to me: "If this matter were brought to the notice of the Government, I do not believe the Government would stand for it 24 hours." They have stupendous faith. There are still people with faith in this country, and there are people of great faith around Newmarket-on-Fergus. They say: "If you brought this matter to the notice of the Government, they would not stand for it; they would alter it," Now I have brought the position to the notice of the Government. I have indicated by any standard by which you care to measure it—by the standard of a mere human machine—that you are not affording sufficient food to give them vitality to continue the work. If you allow a man to be a social being, entitled to marry and have a family, you should give him sufficient to maintain a family. On this Government job, which is an international job, you are not giving a standard of living which would be in any way respectable for a coolie. I am asking the Dáil, therefore, to pass this motion, and see that the Government increases the wage to a figure approximating to a living standard.

Mr. Keyes

In seconding the motion as moved by Deputy Hogan it will be perfectly unnecessary for me to intrude for any considerable length upon the time of the House. I am anxious to give to the person replying as much time as possible out of the limited time at our disposal. I do not think it will be necessary for me to do anything further than to allow the cool, impartial setting out of the facts, as given by Deputy Hogan, to sink into the minds of Deputies of all Parties in this House, so that they will realise the injustice that is being inflicted upon Irish workers in this national scheme. It gives one cause to wonder if it is not a set and definite policy of the Government, on each and every opportunity that presents itself, to set themselves up—in contradiction of their statements in previous times—as being pro-taganists of a low wage policy. Looking back over the past few years we had debates and discussions on the 24/-a week standard which was inflicted under minor relief schemes. Subsequent to that, we had the diminution of that scanty figure to 21/- a week paid in certain counties under the Forestry Department. Later than that we had the broken time system adopted by the Parliamentary Secretary on varying types of schemes throughout the country. We had men earning as princely a sum as 15/- a week to maintain themselves and their families, in order to save the unemployment assistance fund. Now we come to the scheme which has been referred to by Deputy Hogan as work of the most arduous kind. We have been previously told that the work on those schemes was of a light type, and did not call for any strenuous effort, but this scheme cannot be so classified. I know of no more arduous toil than that which is called for in the sinking of those canals and the irrigation at Rhynana the men having to work, as Deputy Hogan has said, in a tide inundated plain. I think if we had a definite policy on the part of the Government to indicate to the world at large, this is the one place where they would be inclined to set up a decent standard, because it cannot be denied to the other parties to this international transaction that this wonderful aerial service is going to mark its progress by the infliction of a low wage upon the workers engaged upon its construction.

Side by side with that, the local authority pays 35/-. Is this an indication from the Government that they deprecate the payment of 35/- a week by the Clare County Council? Is it an indication that North Tipperary must mend its hand, or that the county council must mend its hand in regard to its workers, whose most arduous work is the maintenance of roads, where they at least have a firm footing? Viewed from any standpoint, I think it will be difficult for Deputies of this House to associate themselves with the continuance of this wage. It cannot be that the future of aviation is going to depend upon whether or not the labourers engaged on this scheme will have a living wage of 30/- or 35/-, which would be a bare subsistence level, or whether they have to maintain themselves on the coolie standard indicated by Deputy Hogan in moving this motion. I do not intend, as I said, to go over the points which have been made by him. I do not think it is necessary, when a motion of this kind is put up for discussion, that there should be a long series of speeches on the same points. I think the matter has been clearly set out, and needs no further demonstration. I am anxious to leave as much as possible of the time at our disposal to hear any possible reply that can be given, but I am confident that no reply can be given from the Government Benches to satisfy any impartially-minded man that this is a justifiable wage. I only regret that it is not possible for Deputies to use the freedom of their conscience in recording their votes because, if they were free to do so, I am perfectly certain the Parliamentary Secretary would find himself forlorn on the Government Benches.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance (Mr. Flinn)

I often wonder whether the Labour Party imagine, when speaking in this House, that they are speaking in a silence-cabinet—that they are speaking things that cannot be heard by anybody— because, if they were to believe that the things they say were being heard by the community, then they have a very curious thing to explain. The story that we get from them is that this Government and everybody associated with it, and everybody except themselves, are out to grind the faces of the poor, are out to pay coolie wages, are out to calculate upon the sufferings, the poverty and the necessities of the people, for the purpose of unfairly, dishonestly, and inhumanly overworking them and underpaying them. That is the story they have been carrying, and that is the story they have been telling to an electorate, 80 per cent. of whom are working people—80 per cent. of whom are people who are interested in wage standards and who would be affected by a policy of that kind —and they have been saying that for years. Yet, at the end of the whole of that period, they have not been able to gather to themselves 5 per cent. of the whole voting strength of the community. They are, apparently, the only angels. They are the only people who want to do good for working people, and after 16 years they have not persuaded 5 per cent. of the people to believe them. They have not affected the 95 per cent. of the people who listened to all that nonsense and turned their backs on it.

It has pleased Deputy Hogan to use, as a description of this scheme, a phrase which it is advisable for us to remember—"international, inter-imperial, transoceanic, transcontinental, aerial transport service."—and the whole case he has put before you to-day is based on the sonorous syllables of "international, inter-imperial, transoceanic, transcontinental, aerial transport service." That is the whole case that he put to you. He repeated that phrase 15 times, and if it was not good when he said it the first time, it certainly was not improved by repetition. The mere fact that he has got hold of that phrase, however, does not affect in any way the nature of the work which is being done, and Deputy Hogan, in a question which he put down here the other day, and especially, in a supplementary question, made it perfectly clear that it was the precise nature and quality of the work to which he objected and on which he thought the wages should be based. In his supplementary question on that occasion, Deputy Hogan asked:

"Does the Parliamentary Secretary think that 27/- a week is a reasonable rate of wages considering the work which the men engaged on the Rhynana scheme at present have to do?"

Then, in order that there might be no doubt about it, he asked another question:

"Does the Parliamentary Secretary think that wading waist deep in water is work which is paid for at the rate of 27/- a week?"

Now he has come down from the general "international, inter-imperial, transoceanic, transcontinental aerial transport service," to the actual work that the men were doing, and it is on the basis of the actual work that the men are doing that the rate of wages is settled. Now, what is the actual work which the men are doing? I have here the actual specification, which covers the whole of the work which is being done by direct labour under the Board of Works:

(1) The opening up of existing drains, sluices and outfalls; the clearing of bushes, undergrowth, etc.

That is the actual work upon which they have been engaged up to date.

(2) and (3) the excavation for main drains and boundary drains.

(4) Levelling and grading.

(5) Excavating trenches for subsoil drains; laying subsoil drains; back-filling with stone and replacing turf.

(6) Piping, culverting, and filling existing drains.

(7) Laying temporary surface roads, including quarrying.

(8) Strengthening existing embankments.

(9) Preparation of soil for grass surfacing, including ploughing, harrowing, rolling, fertilising, and sowing.

That is the whole of the work.

Mr. Hogan

What does the Parliamentary Secretary want?

Mr. Flinn

That is the whole of the work which is being done by direct labour by the Board of Works. Now, what that fact has to do with the "international, inter-imperial, cross-oceanic, transcontinental aerial transport service," I do not know.

Mr. Hogan

Why cannot the Parliamentary Secretary get down to the question of why he is not paying the men a living wage? Let him get down to that.

Mr. Flinn

I will give the House another reality. I want you to go down, in imagination, to Rhynana. What do you find there? You find an old drainage system, consisting of an embankment set up for the purpose of drainage, with drains inside it and a complete network of filled drains behind it—a flat, non-boggy surface. Now, that is the whole reality, and that is an accurate and full description of the whole of the area in which we are working, just as that is an accurate specification of the work we are doing. What are we doing now on that old drainage area? We are opening existing drains, sluices and outfalls; we are clearing away bushes and undergrowth; and precisely at that moment when we are doing that, Deputy Hogan intervenes with the statement that the wages which are being paid for doing that particular kind of work——

Mr. Hogan

For any kind of work.

Mr. Flynn

——are wholly and completely inadequate. The Deputy, as I have already told him, has asked two Supplementary Questions in which to clear up the obscurity in his original question. Now, in precisely what work are these people engaged? Will the Deputy tell us? These people are engaged in doing drainage work. They are employed there draining a particular area, and a great deal of the work they are to do is not even arterial drainage. Some of it even ceases to be field drainage. In fact, £17,000 worth of the work happens to be at ploughing, harrowing, rolling and breaking up the land.

Mr. Hogan

Why give them waders then?

Mr. Flinn

They are at present engaged in drainage work and they are paid for that 27/- a week. What is the history of drainage wages rates in Clare?

Mr. Hogan

Under the Parliamentary Secretary himself?

Mr. Flinn

Now one moment, please. One would imagine that I invented this, that this was some sort of miracle that happened. Rip Van Winkle had better wake up.

Mr. Hogan

I hope he does.

Mr. Flinn

He had better wake up and understand what he is talking about. He might wake up and if he does he will learn that in 1929 there was £2,000 spent in Tiermaclane drainage works, and the rate was 27/-a week; in 1931 there was spent £4,700 in Newmarket-on-Fergus drainage works, and the rate paid was 27/- a week. In 1931-1932 we had the Kilmaley drainage works £1,800; rate of wages 27/- a week. A sum of £14,000 was spent on the Sixmilebridge works in 1932 at 27/- a week; on the Fergus works in 1932 there was a sum of £13,000 spent at the same rate. In 1933, on the Inagh drainage, there was spent £13,700 at 27/- a week. In the same year in Manus there was spent £2,600 at 27/- a week. In Scariff, in 1931, there was spent £16,359 and again the rate was 27/- a week.

Deputies will observe that throughout the whole time the rate of wages paid on these drainage works has been 27/- a week. Someone is going to contend for one of two things—I do not mind which they contend for—that this is not drainage work—even after I have read the specifications—or that the drainage rate should not be 27/- a week. Now which is it? They have never challenged the drainage rate of wage in all these schemes that have been going on under the eyes of Deputy Hogan. Now they suddenly discover that this is a cruel wrong and an outrage; that it is grinding the faces of the poor; that it is deliberately using their necessity for the purpose of paying a low rate of wage, a rate that, as I have shown, has been paid in probably £60,000 worth of work on drainage in Clare—in precisely the same work.

Mr. Hogan

Yes, under the Parliamentary Secretary's Department.

Mr. Flinn

What the Deputy is now complaining of is the inter-imperial, transoceanic, cross-continental aerial transport work. But this is drainage work.

Mr. Hogan

I am complaining because the rate is inadequate.

Mr. Flinn

Is the Deputy complaining that it is international, inter-imperial, transoceanic, cross continental aerial transport work or drainage? The Deputy used that phrase; he read it out to me 15 times and I intend to remember it. He brought this in as a background to misrepresent this work. By what authority does the Deputy speak here? Does he speak with the authority of the men who are employed at this drainage work?

Mr. Hogan

I do.

Mr. Flinn

I doubt it. I myself have been in contact with the men. They are the kind of men who are not at all unwilling to tell us if they have any suggestions or any complaints to make. They put their complaints before us. Whether these proposals have ever been made by the men themselves——

Mr. Hogan

Will the Parliamentary Secretary go down and address them there?

Mr. Flinn

Has Deputy Hogan been down there and seen the men working up to their waists in water?

Mr. Hogan

I have.

Mr. Flinn

I was willing to pay £500 to anyone who has seen these men working up to their waists in water.

Mr. Norton

How many pounds out of the 27/- a week are the Rhynana men to get?

Mr. Morrissey

What are the Labour Party complaining about? Is it not they who are keeping the Parliamentary Secretary there?

Mr. Flinn

The statement by Deputy Hogan that the men are working up to their waists in water is untrue. We issued rubber boots up to their thighs to all these men. Does the Deputy think that we are fools enough to ask these men to work up to their waists in water? Sometimes in engineering as well as in fishing, men have to get into waders, but we gave them rubber boots up to their thighs. I was over the whole works and I never saw a man even up to his ankles in water. What has happened in this—the men have been in contact with us. They put forward suggestions of one kind or another. They put forward a suggestion in relation to broken time; they put forward suggestions in relation to waders and they put forward one in relation to a shelter. There has been a suggestion in relation to enabling a man to transfer from one gang of men to another gang more convenient to his residence. All these suggestions have been met. I want Deputy Hogan to go down and ask them whether these suggestions have been met or not.

Mr. Hogan

I was there.

Mr. Flinn

I am perfectly satisfied at the present moment that the men working at the Rhynana drainage are working cheerfully and in a happy mood——

Mr. Norton

For 4/6 a day.

Mr. Flinn

Deputy Hogan has no authority from these men to come here and say the things he has said.

Mr. Hogan

That is not in accordance with the facts. The Parliamentary Secretary may construe what I have said as he likes.

Mr. Flinn

What has happened is that at the present moment we are engaged in spending a considerable amount of money on minor drainage schemes. That money is being spent and the fact that the money was being spent was known to Deputy Hogan over a period of the last four or five years; the rate throughout all that period has been 27/- a week.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is it the desire of the House to get a decision on this motion to-night?

Mr. Hogan

I have something further to say. We have had a scandalous performance from the Parliamentary Secretary.

An Ceann Comhairle

If it is thought desirable by the House the Parliamentary Secretary may continue.

Mr. Hogan

We have had a scandalous performance from the Parliamentary Secretary to-night when dealing with his administration in connection with these works.

Mr. Morrissey

The Parliamentary Secretary is the man the Labour Party put into office. They ought to be proud of him.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Friday, 27th November.