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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Friday, 11 Dec 1936

Vol. 64 No. 9

Allocation of Time—Motion.

I move:—

(1) That in the case of the Constitution (Amendment No. 27) Bill, 1936:—

(i) The Second Stage of the Bill shall be proceeded with immediately upon the passing of this motion on Friday, 11th December, 1936, and the proceedings on the Second Stage, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 8.30 p.m. on the said day by putting from the Chair forthwith the Question, "That the Bill be now read a Second Time," and after the said hour no Question shall be put from the Chair on any amendment to the motion for Second Reading.

(ii) The Committee Stage of the Bill shall be proceeded with immediately upon the conclusion of the Second Stage of the Bill, and the proceedings on that stage, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 10.30 p.m. on Friday, 11th December, 1936, by putting from the Chair forthwith and successively any Questions necessary to bring the proceedings to a conclusion: Provided that after the said hour on the said day no Question shall be put from the Chair upon any amendment save an amendment set down by the Government, and the Question on such amendment shall be in the form, That the amendment be made; and after the appointed time the Question to be put from the Chair to bring the proceedings in Committee on the Bill forthwith to a conclusion shall be (as the case may require), That the section, the sections, stand part of, and that the Schedule and the Title be the Schedule and the Title to, the Bill.

(iii) The Fourth Stage of the Bill shall be proceeded with immediately upon the conclusion of the Committee Stage, and the Question necessary to bring to a conclusion the proceedings on the Fourth Stage shall be put forthwith and shall be decided without amendment or debate.

(iv) The Fifth Stage of the Bill shall be proceeded with immediately upon the conclusion of the Fourth Stage, and the Question necessary to bring to a conclusion the proceedings on the Fifth Stage shall be put forthwith and shall be decided without amendment or debate.

(2) That in the case of the Executive Authority (External Relations) Bill, 1936:—

(i) The Second Stage of the Bill shall be the first Order of the day on Saturday, 12th December, 1936, and shall be entered upon at 10.30 a.m. on that day. The proceedings on the said stage, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 5 p.m. on the said day by putting from the Chair forthwith the Question, That the Bill be now read a Second Time; and after the said hour no Question shall be put from the Chair on any amendment to the motion for Second Reading.

(ii) The Committee Stage of the Bill shall be proceeded with immediately upon the conclusion of the Second Stage of the Bill, and the proceedings on that stage, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 10 p.m. on Saturday, 12th December, 1936, by putting from the Chair forthwith and successively any Questions necessary to bring the proceedings to a conclusion: Provided that after the said hour on the said day no Questions shall be put from the Chair upon any amendment save an amendment set down by the Government, and the Question on such an amendment shall be in the form, That the amendment be made; and after the appointed time the Question to be put from the Chair to bring the proceedings in Committee on the Bill forthwith to a conclusion shall be (as the case may require), That the section, the sections stand part of, and that the title be the title to, the Bill.

(iii) The Fourth Stage of the Bill shall be proceeded with immediately upon the conclusion of the Committee Stage, and the Question necessary to bring to a conclusion the proceedings on the Fourth Stage shall be put forthwith and shall be decided without amendment or debate.

(iv) The Fifth Stage of the Bill shall be proceeded with immediately upon the conclusion of the Fourth Stage, and the Question necessary to bring to a conclusion the proceedings on the Fifth Stage shall be put forthwith and shall be decided without amendment or debate.

Why is that motion moved?

I suppose I shall have to—

Why is this guillotine motion being moved?

Are we going to conduct this debate by a constant series of questions—a mere sort of catechism of question and answer?

Are we going to hear what the motion is about?

Is the Deputy addressing the Chair?

I think that this motion and the attitude of the Government is on all fours with their whole conduct and with their views upon Parliamentary institutions that no explanation should be given of this extraordinary guillotine motion. It would not be quite in keeping with the President's and his Parliamentary Secretary's contempt for Parliament and Parliamentary institutions to attempt to give any explanation of this extraordinary guillotine motion. The President was present when the leader of the Labour Party demanded that the House should be told why this should be done. The moving of this resolution is an insult to the House and to Parliamentary institutions. The lack of any explanation on the part of the mover of this resolution is, if possible, an addition to that insult. We have had plenty of indications already from the Ministry and from the Government Benches of the value that they attach to Parliamentary institutions. In various debates during the past 12 months, and on various occasions in this House, we had occasion to draw attention to the supreme contempt for these institutions that members—one member of the Ministry after another—has shown for Parliamentary institutions.

We have had, of course, the usual lip service to Parliamentary democracy from the President, but we want more than lip service where Parliamentary democracy and Parliamentary institutions are concerned. We want more than lip service—especially when we bear in mind the whole history of that Ministry and the whole history of that Party prior to their becoming a Ministry—before we can attach any credence to their protestations in favour of Parliamentary democracy. Here we are suddenly presented with a summons to Parliament, by telegram. It is quite possible that some members of the Dáil have got no invitation; I do not know whether that is so or not. It was yesterday, some time about 7 o'clock, that I, who live in the City of Dublin, got the invitation. This morning by post I got these Bills. How many of the Deputies living down the country saw these Bills before they came into this House? How many of those Deputies, owing to the lateness of the summons to Parliament, will see those Bills before they are asked to vote on them?

Is this merely a formal business? Does anybody think that the explanation given by the President, namely, the situation created by the abdication of His Majesty King Edward, is all that is involved in this Bill? Surely no pretence of that kind can be made? If it were a question of introducing a Bill to meet that particular situation, a plain course was open to the President—to acknowledge or to give the ratification of this Parliament to the abdication. Why was not that done in a simple Bill? Is it not the fact that he is trying to capitalise the present sensationalism that is in the country about this particular matter? Is not the charge made by the leader of the Labour Party perfectly justified? The President speaks about goodwill towards the members of the British Commonwealth. He speaks about the good relations that should be maintained, and, at a time like this, when they are suffering from the present crisis, he gives them this direct slap in the face. He may believe he is correct in doing that, or he may not. It may be his policy, but let him not talk of goodwill in the same speech in which he does that.

Why not these Bills and good relations?

I know; why not give a person a slap in the face, and, at the same time, speak of goodwill?

Who is giving the slap in the face?

Speak of democracy and at the same time make a nullity of Parliamentary institutions? Why not? The President can see no difficulty in that. He has never seen any difficulties in things of that kind. Again and again, when there was a proposition here in this House for the abolition of the Second Chamber the dangers were pointed out. Here, in a single sitting of the Dáil, summoned by telegram, without any proper opportunity of weighing the consequences of these Bills, we are asked to pass fundamental alterations in the Constitution into law. Is that the kind of guarantee that we thought we were getting from the President when he abolished the Second Chamber? Are his promises—shall I say promises—are the misconceptions that he allowed us to be under—that is much more in keeping with his technique—to be honoured in that way? Has he the same respect for democracy that he has for his promises, or for the way in which he misleads the people?

He spoke about the Irish people being given an opportunity; he and other members of the Ministry have spoken recently about the Irish people being given a full opportunity to consider all these important Constitutional changes before they were passed into law. The words are hardly uttered when we find them repudiated by the actions of the Government and the action of the President himself. What opportunity is there? What opportunity have the Irish people had? The bulk of them do not know about what we are meeting to-day. They know that we are meeting in connection with the crisis which has occurred in Great Britain; that is all they know. And in reality that is the least thing about which we are meeting. Anybody reading these two Bills will wonder what connection they have with the crisis. There may be some slight reference to the crisis, not in the Constitution Amendment Bill which we are asked to pass to-day, but in the Bill which we are asked to pass to-morrow. But the great bulk of the people, Sir, have no knowledge whatsoever of what we are called together for here to-day.

They will know it to-morrow.

After we have passed the Bill. Exactly. Those are precisely the lines laid down by the President. We pass them first, and the people will have time to think about them. That is a paraphrase, and a perfectly fair paraphrase, of the President's attitude in this matter.

Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings!

What was his view? What was the explanation? We will pass the Bill to-day, and, for the next couple of months, the people of Ireland can wonder whether we are going to pass it or not!

Look at the numbers on these benches.

That is the President's and Deputy Donnelly's idea of Parliamentary democracy. And because that is their idea of democracy we are asked to pass this motion. There is nothing in the history of that Party or of the Government which does not fully bear out Deputy Donnelly's boast and Deputy Donnelly's threat at this particular moment. "We have a majority; the rights of the Irish people and the interests of the Irish people in this particular matter can go by the board." There is one thing that would be really far more decent for the President to do, and that is to scrap Parliamentary institutions altogether. We are presented with an amazing situation here. I defy any ordinary Deputy to know what is the full purport of these Bills. I defy anybody to know whether or not they put us outside the Commonwealth. How are we to decide that? The President said it was desirable to consult other members of the Commonwealth but there was not time. Why was there not time? Because he determined there would not be time. The President could have introduced an entirely different Bill. He is simply capitalising and using the unfortunate situation which has occurred in England, and the objectionable matter which has surrounded that discussion, in order to rush this Bill through. If that is not so, why did he not introduce a simple Bill accepting the abdication? It is quite obvious what he intends to do. Under cover of that crisis he intends to introduce fundamental alterations in our Constitution, and possibly fundamental changes in our relations with the other Dominions. He had not time to consult them! Why had he not time to consult them? Because he took good care he would not have time to consult them. Is not that the situation? Is it purely a domestic matter? Is that the contention? Is it purely a domestic matter in which the other Dominions have no interest, even though they are committed to the view that a certain institution is the symbol of the free association of the members of the Commonwealth? That was agreed on at conferences at which the other Dominions were present. It is enshrined in the preamble to the Statue of Westminster that gives effect to the outcome of those conferences. Does the President say that what was solemnly agreed upon by the other Dominions, by the other members of the Commonwealth of Nations, is of no concern to them—that he is fulfilling his obligations in that respect by acknowledging in the most extraordinary ungracious section the new Sovereign in England as a kind of Consul-General on our behalf so far as foreign nations are concerned, because that is what it comes to? Does the President think that he is to remain in community with Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Great Britain, when our Government have no interest in what these nations solemnly declare and what their whole policy makes clear is the view of the link that binds these nations together? The President made no attempt to consult them but rushes this Bill through Parliament. Our people have no time to consider this legislation and the President had no time to consider what the views of the members of the Commonwealth are. He told us he had communicated with Great Britain, whether by writing or word of mouth he was not quite sure, but apparently at least some kind of informal talk over a cigar and a cup of coffee took place. That was the only State of the Commonwealth that he consulted. He did not tell us what were the reactions of that particular State to his proposals.

The result is that the House is left in complete ignorance of the effect that these Bills will have on the interests of the Irish people; of the effect they will have on our status, and of the effect that they will have on our relations with the other States of the Commonwealth. As far as I can judge he is cutting out what the other States rightly or wrongly regard as the symbol of their association in the Commonwealth. He deliberately puts that out of the Constitution. He says that he brings it back in the other Bill. So he says, but in what capacity? As a kind of roving Consul-General. That is the only capacity in which he has brought it back. I would ask the House to look at the Bill. If Deputies look at Clause 3 in the Second Bill they will see my point. Is not the implication of that clause that we are outside the Commonwealth? Is the implication of that clause not this:—That there is an association known as the British Commonwealth of Nations which regard the King as the symbol of their continued co-operation? These States are Australia, Canada, Great Britain, New Zealand and South Africa. That is, for the purpose of that clause, the British Commonwealth of Nations. We do not belong to it. We are merely in relation with it. They are in relation to each other and form a Commonwealth, but we are only in relation to that group. That is what the Bill that is suddenly thrown upon this House implies. The President himself gave the country promise after promise that a Bill having these implications would not be put through this Dáil until the people had been consulted. He spoke again and again on that matter and he promised at the Ard-Fheis and elsewhere, so far as words had any significance, that there would be a full debate on every detail of the Constitution before the Constitution would be put into law, and the most vital parts of the Constitution are being put into law without the people of this country being given an opportunity of considering what is being done. The President some time ago implied at all events some respect for Parliamentary institutions. This motion before the House now is an insult to any Parliament. Does the Bill we are discussing to-day deal with the abdication of the King? Is there anything in the Bill we are discussing to-day dealing with the abdication of the King? You may argue that there is something in to-morrow's Bill. That is a question that can be argued, and I am not going to deal with that now. It is quite obvious that the proclamation of the new King is going to take place before to-morrow's Bill becomes law here. Why then the haste?

Is that the co-operation that the President is going to give? He could have brought in a Bill here. He could have got it through with very little trouble and with very little opposition. But what does he do? He simply uses a scandal in order to get rid of some outstanding articles of agreement between ourselves and Great Britain. When dealing with the Oath Bill he used the argument subtly but not convincingly that the removal of the Oath was no breach of the Treaty. Does the President hold that this Bill is not a breach of the Treaty, or does he not mind? Yet there is to be no consideration of it by the Dáil—we have a couple of hours' consideration of a matter of the greatest importance. The President said himself he was going to introduce this Constitution Bill in a couple of months' time. Why not wait? Why hurry with this thing now? He said it was always in his mind to introduce legislation of this kind. Why did he not wait until the time he had fixed upon? Because of the present crisis. Again it is obvious, no matter what denial may come from his lips that he is utilising this crisis in order to put a piece of slick practice upon the House and upon the people of this country. How else can it be read? The Bill is fraught with many consequences which I am not going to discuss now. The precedent which is being set to-day is also fraught with consequences for the future. It shows the sort of Government we can expect from any Constitution that comes from that body of men opposite.

You can have anything you like in a written Constitution. It is only the working of the Constitution that is going to count and we see how our Parliament can be expected to work. How can a Parliamentary system work as long as the Party opposite has a majority in this House? They will take off their hats to Parliamentary control but they will steam-roll it as often as they can and without any excuse. We have here a parody of Parliamentary practice and of a Parliamentary Constitution. It is to snatch a mere Party advantage that the institutions of this country are being damaged. I am not particularly interested in the repercussions this may have elsewhere.

I am now interested in the interests of the people of this country, in the good name of this country and in its Parliamentary institutions. I believe that at all these things the President has to-day struck a very severe blow. I am fully convinced that if he appreciated what he is doing he still would not hesitate to do it. I do not imagine that he has ever had any belief in Parliamentary institutions or in majority rule unless the majority happens to be with him. We may judge by his performances here to-day how much his professions come to. I had occasion more than once to refer to the fact that we were all pleased when, as leader of the Opposition, the President assured us that he believed in Parliamentary democracy, but then all our hopes were dashed when he said: "I always believed in it." It is the same here. He believes in Parliamentary democracy just as he believed in it in 1922, 1923, 1925 and 1926. He believes in it when he can hoodwink the people and rush legislation through this House to the detriment of the people and not to their advantage. We are getting nothing in the furtherance of our material interests by what is happening to-day.

We have the numbers.

As Deputy Donnelly says, look at the numbers. The Bill is going through. That is just the attitude of the whole Front Bench as well as the attitude of Deputy Donnelly towards Parliamentary institutions.

You set a good head-line in that respect when you were over here.

Did we? Did we summon Parliament by telegram and not give reasons for the urgency?

What was your attitude then?

Is Deputy Davin joining in the Government's contempt for Parliamentary institutions? I thought the Deputy would come to their help.

He was not so helpful always.

You cannot help it. Now restrain yourself. Is the Deputy in favour of this motion or not?

I imagined from his interruption that he was.

I was pointing out what you did yourselves. You gave the bad example.

We gave full reason for urgency and the Deputy knows what the reason was.

And the Deputy voted for the same thing in this Parliament.

Not merely that, but the Deputy knows well that Deputies and Senators could not go home to the country with safety to their lives before the law was passed. Is there any such urgency to-day? Did we pass amendments to the Constitution of this kind in one day? You have simply, as I say, merely the determination, not of the Parliament, but of a Party dictatorship to run this through at all costs. The Bills are highly objectionable in themselves, but the motion is objectionable on every ground, especially because it spells the end of real Parliamentary government in this country.

We are asked in this item No. 3 on the Order Paper to consent to an arrangement by which certain Bills will be disposed of at certain times prescribed by the Executive Council. I want to look at this guillotine motion with particular relation to No. 2 Bill which has been circulated. The object of this No. 2 Bill, whether the Executive Council like it or not, whether they care to admit it or not, is to provide for the appointment of a successor to the abdicated King, and we are now being asked to appoint a King of Saorstát Eireann under a guillotine motion.

A Deputy

If he hears that, he will not take it.

It may be a matter of merriment for some, but I imagine there can be no real merriment in the Government Party on this procedure. When we listened to the speeches of denunciation made by that Party against the British King enshrined in the Treaty and the Constitution, some of us, at all events, never thought that we would have the experience of being asked to appoint a British King of Saorstát Eireann under a guillotine motion in the Parliament of Saorstát Eireann. That is what we are being asked to do to-day. Section 3 of this Bill—to which I do not want to refer at any length—definitely authorises the Executive Council to appoint a British King to do certain things for them, to carry out certain duties for them. In case anybody should be in doubt as to which King is going to be appointed to carry out the duties, we are told in sub-section (2) of Section 3 of that Bill that—

The King referred to in the foregoing sub-section of this section shall, for the purposes of that sub-section, be the person who, if His Majesty King Edward VIII had died on the 10th day of December, 1936, unmarried, would for the time being be his successor under the law of Saorstát Eireann.

So that we are now being invited to presume the late King dead, and to appoint a successor under a guillotine motion. It is because that seems to me to be a kind of tragic ridicule of the Irish Parliament, and because it seems to me to be a kind of tragic pantomime for the Irish people, that

I protest against this Dáil being asked to pass this legislation at such short notice.

We were asked yesterday by telegram to meet to-day at 3 o'clock to pass this Bill. The British Government know perfectly well that the King they propose to appoint, in lieu of the King who has abdicated, cannot be made King in Great Britain in the normal course. Certain abnormal legislation is necessary in order to provide for the appointment of his successor. We can understand these difficulties as they affect Great Britain. We can understand Great Britain's anxiety to regularise the position as it affects her. But what is the need for the same anxiety and what is the need for the same haste on our part in appointing a successor to the abdicated King? I cannot see it. Nothing that the President has said so far justifies us in assuming that there is any real reason, so far as this country is concerned, for appointing a successor to the King who has abdicated.

In an attempt to show justification for this panic meeting to-day, the President stated that it was necessary, in order to convenience the abdicated King, to meet and relieve him of the title of King of Saorstát Eireann which still reposes in him. Can we not relieve him of that? He has already indicated that he does not want to continue in that role. But if the King still feels that a further sense of legislative tidiness is necessary, and that he ought to be relieved by a legislative Act here, can we not relieve him of that? What is the need to go further and indicate in this Bill that we automatically deem the person who succeeds him in Great Britain to succeed him here? What is the need for the haste? People were only told last night, and others only told this morning, that the British King had abdicated, and within four or five hours of our people reading that in the newspapers, this Parliament is assembled here and asked to appoint a successor to that King under a guillotine motion. I think the haste is indecent, and that it is inexplicable. I cannot for the life of me understand for what reason we are asked to carry out this thing in this manner.

But apart from the haste, and apart from the fact that the Executive Council are now definitely appointing a King of Saorstát Eireann, there are other considerations to be adverted to in this matter. It could always have been said for the Executive Council that when they came into office in 1932 they found a King in the Constitution; that their object all the time was to clip the wings of the King and to put him in proper perspective in relation to the Irish people and to the Constitution of Saorstát Eireann. They could therefore always claim to be growing up nationally, so long as they were adjusting the King to Irish ideals and traditions. But to-day that is not the position. The person they object to, this person whose wings they wanted to clip then, has now voluntarily relinquished his objectionable role here. He has indicated definitely that he is no longer going to function as the King of Saorstát Eireann in fact. He has gone out. But, instead of being glad at that sudden and welcome departure so far as Irish traditions are concerned, the Executive Council tumble over themselves calling the Dáil together by telegram — by two telegrams — and ask it to meet at less than 24 hours' notice to appoint a successor to the abdicated King. Let us see what we are doing, and if we are going to do it, or if a majority of this House is going to do it, let Deputies do it with their eyes open. The President apparently is going to swallow by this piece of legislation, not merely the King Britain appoints, but is going to swallow all the trappings associated with that monarchy.

Under the Act of Succession the British monarch is obliged to take a certain Oath that is offensive to the religious susceptibilities of the Irish people. It is far from my desire to raise any religious controversy but I feel bound, Sir, to protest in this House against the appointment of a King, who definitely, under the Oath which he takes displays bias and hatred towards the religion professed by the overwhelming majority of our people. Fianna Fáil in passing this Bill to-day or to-morrow is appointing a successor to the abdicated British King. Let it be perfectly clear that they are appointing one who would subscribe to this Oath:

Provided always and it is hereby enacted that all and every person and persons who shall or may take or inherit the said Crown by virtue of the limitations of this present Act, and is, are, or shall be reconciled to or shall hold communion with the See or Church of Rome, or shall profess the Popish religion, or shall marry a Papist, shall be subject to such incapacities as in such case or cases are by the said recited Act provided, enacted and established.

The King we are going to appoint under Section 3 of the Bill is going to take that Oath, an Oath under which he admits certain penalties will be enacted upon him and in respect to him if he holds any communion with the Church of Rome, or, if he professes the Popish religion or — and this is the distinctly offensive part — if he marries a Papist. That is the King we are going to appoint under that section; the King we are going to appoint under the guillotine, and that is the Oath he is going to take. What is the explanation of all the haste? What is the explanation for all the speed to appoint a King under these conditions? What is the need to appoint a King at all under existing circumstances? The other King abdicated yesterday. Have we not plenty of time to consider and to review the position in the light of that abdication? The President talks about certain difficulties that may arise. I cannot foresee these difficulties. The Dáil will not meet again until February, and no legislation is likely to be enacted in the meantime, the validity of which might be raised in a constitutional way. The courts can function as usual. The Legislature is not interfered with and the trade and the traffic of the country will run as usual. What is the need for having this House convened at such short notice and asking it to pass a Bill in such objectionable terms as this Bill, a few hours after the people had learned that the British King had abdicated? The haste is inexcusable.

If the Party opposite had come to this House standing over Bill No. 2 to appoint a British King of Saorstát Eireann under the guillotine, I can imagine the President making a long speech and I can imagine the eloquence that would flow from the Front Benches of Fianna Fáil. I can imagine even the last member of the Party insisting on pouring out indignation and scorn upon a proposal of the kind. But, here is the Executive Council constituted of the Fianna Fáil Party asking us to appoint a British King as King of Saorstát Eireann a few hours after the people had learned that the other King had abdicated. I cannot understand the haste. No case whatever for haste has been made. A gullotine motion is normally objectionable. It can be justified if it is introduced in pursuit of a good progressive object, either national or social. This is not a progressive object, nationally or socially. This is not a progressive document, as far as Saorstát Eireann is concerned. For the first time Saorstát Eireann is to appoint a British King to rule here. That is the object of the Bill which the President has introduced. No case has been made why the House should be muddled in discussing this matter. No case has been made why the House should pass the Bill with such speed, and I hope the House will realise the gravity of what it is doing in No. 2 Bill by declining to act in the way suggested in the guillotine motion.

I welcome the words of the President that the introduction of these Bills by the Government was a mark of their desire to co-operate with the British Government and the other members of the British Commonwealth of Nations. Even at this stage I appeal to him that he should to-day simply make effective the sentiments that were enshrined in these words. If he will do that, I fancy he will secure complete co-operation from every member of the Dáil. If he goes beyond that, and attempts to carry, as suggested in the two Bills submitted to us, measures which are not all concerned with the immediate crisis in Great Britain, I think he will be acting contrary to the wishes of the whole Opposition, to the wishes of the Independents, and, I hope, the wishes of Labour Deputies. To what extent he will be carrying out the wishes of the country neither he nor I can prophesy with regard to measures of this kind. I wish to support quite strongly the attitude taken up by Deputy Norton in his first remarks to-day. I hope in saying so I may get support in the attitude I am taking up—that we should confine ourselves entirely to such legislation as may be necessary to enable certain steps to be carried out, and that we should not go beyond that. If we go beyond that I think we are doing what Deputy Norton fears, namely, making our own legislation dependent upon affairs in a neighbouring country. As I understand the position, there is one thing on which urgency is necessary and for that one thing the British Parliament is meeting to-day and carrying out certain measures. The King expressed his determination to abdicate and requested that steps should be taken as quickly as possible to make that abdication effective. I understand the British Parliament are taking that measure at the present moment.

If we wish to co-operate with them we should certainly go the length that has been suggested, and should make the abdication effective as far as the Free State is concerned. I contend that it is impossible to say from a cursory examination of one day, two days or three days whether the effect, direct or indirect, of the Bill is to make that abdication effective or not. I do not profess to be a lawyer, but no one, not even a constitutional lawyer of the highest skill and experience would express an opinion on that question without full consideration. He would hesitate to express an opinion except given ample time to investigate the matter and to give what is called a well-considered opinion. What Bill No. 1 does is to profess to remove, in so far as legislation is concerned, the King entirely from the place he hitherto occupied in our Constitution, to remove him from being a member of the Oireachtas. It takes away the necessity for him to accept measures and removes the King in toto. from the pages of the Constitution. Does that beyond doubt remove the King from being King of Ireland? I suggest to the President that that is a question he could not answer at the moment and that it requires a great deal of investigation. Under Section 7 of the Constitution we took over as the laws of this State all the laws that were effective at the time that the Constitution was passed. These laws included an Act of Settlement, the Act of Succession and such like laws. Removing the King from his executive functions in connection with our legislative offices here does not, I contend — I doubt very much whether the President will be prepared to state it does — remove him from the position he occupies in Ireland under the Acts I have referred to and other Acts similar to them. I suggest that it would require careful investigation to determine whether, by passing No. 1 Bill, we shall have done or shall not have done the one thing necessary to-day— namely to facilitate and validate the proposed abdication of the King.

I am going to be very brief and I trust that brevity will be merely a mark of the extreme gravity I attach to our proceedings here to-day. We are doing for this country something that is far and away graver, more far-reaching and more important for us than the acceptance or nonacceptance or the recognition or nonrecognition of a serious constitutional crisis in Great Britain. I should protest strongly against the measures in themselves and oppose them as strongly as I could but, far and away beyond that protest, I should like to object to the way in which those measures are being introduced and put through this House. That they will be put through, I fear is certain. That they should be put through with the examination, criticism and discussion that can be given to them in an afternoon session of this House and a second session to-morrow is of the gravest consequence to our Parliamentary institution.

It seems to me that we have here introduced, under the plea of urgency, revolutionary legislation — legislation which scatters to the winds all care or forethought for the wishes of the minority and gives them practically no opportunity of airing their views or putting forward their case. That is done under the aegis of a crisis which is occurring in the neighbouring country of Great Britain. These revolutionary proposals are put forward under this plea in a way in which it is impossible for them to be properly considered. Some of these proposals might be put before this House at any time and, at any time, ample time would be required for their consideration and investigation. Yet, we are asked to go through to-day what I can only characterise as the farce of weighing up those measures in the few hours that remain when we shall have done debating the question as to whether we should examine them at all or not. The examination of these measures in these circumstances is impossible. No doubt, they have been examined by the Executive Council and their advisers. No doubt, the Executive Council and their advisers think these measures will secure the objects which they desire to secure. Whether they will or not time alone will determine and, I think, others than ourselves will have much to say. I protest most strongly against these measures in themselves. I protest more strongly still against this attempt in what we still regard as a democratic institution to force them through in this way. Lastly, I protest most strongly that these measures, of vital importance to ourselves, should be carried through in this way on the occasion of a grave constitutional crisis in a neighbouring country.

On another occasion, I asked the President of the Executive Council not further to employ his admitted gift for bewildering and misleading our people. I repeat that request to him now. Grave matters are here for decision and disposal in the situation which has arisen from the abdication of His Majesty King Edward VIII. No difficulties would have been placed in the way of the

President of the Executive Council had he come to this House with a request for such legislation as was necessary to regularise the Constitutional position consequent on that development. The Bills before us to-day are not introduced primarily for the purpose of regularising the Constitutional position arising out of that situation. These Bills are designed, under cover of an excuse to regularise the position arising out of the abdication, to make fundamental Constitutional changes for the whole people. They are being rushed through the House on the representation that they must be got through if grave consequences are not to ensue, here and now, for the State-members of the Commonwealth of Nations.

If Parliament is to have behind it the moral authority of the people — and, in my submission, Parliament cannot govern if it has not behind it that authority—Parliament should be treated with respect. Anyone who has persued these two Bills must say that no Parliament could possibly give them the consideration to which they are entitled if it is compelled to enact them in one day. No possible difficulty could have arisen for the President of the Executive Council. We can understand that if he had come here and merely moved for legislation to regularise the abdication, he might have been criticised by some of the irresponsible members of his own Party. If he wanted to assuage their ruffled feelings, he could perfectly easily have introduced additional Bills to deal with the other matters referred to in these two Bills and given Dáil Eireann ample time to consider them. He did not adopt that course, and his failure to adopt that course results, in my opinion, in two highly undesirable things which exclusively affect our country. The first thing is that it indicates to the people that Deputy Donnelly's view of Parliamentary institutions is the correct view in the opinion of the Executive Council. That is, that Parliament is to be treated with contempt and that, so long as you have a majority in it, you are simply to use it for registering the opinions of the Government of the day without any regard whatever for the arguments of the Opposition or of Deputies who do not belong to the Government Party. If that impression is finally made upon the minds of the Irish people, then Parliamentary Government here is going to end. Unless the belief is preserved amongst our people that the views of the minority are heard and listened to, rational men will ask themselves, "What is the use of a talking-shop if nothing results from the talk but decisions without any reference to the representations that are made?"

The essence of Parliamentary Government is that, though the minority has no right to claim a decisive voice in legislation, Parliament is the place where it can make its representations, and where the Government have a duty to consider those representations in so far as they can be considered by carrying out the general trend of Government policy at the same time. There is growing up in the ranks of Fianna Fáil, and in the minds of some irresponsible sections of our community, the idea that this House is no more than a futile talking shop. If that idea grows, the time cannot be far distant when the people will make an end of any futile institution, and if such a disaster should come upon this country, then the President of the Executive Council will have to bear no small share of the blame for having precipitated it, for no man has shown a greater contempt for Parliamentary institutions that he has. In this instance, in my opinion, he crowns all his previous acts of disregarding the legitimate rights and demands of the Opposition who are co-operating in the maintenance of democratic institutions in this country.

Now there is one other aspect of the present situation to which I wish briefly to refer. A great country and a great people, who are neighbours of ours and with whom the President has often said it is in our best interest to maintain friendly relations, have been greatly afflicted by the grievous crisis that has come upon them. Every nation in the world has extended to them an expression of respectful sympathy; every nation in the world has sought to lighten the burden of their dismay by any gesture of graceful friendship that the occasion would allow. I feel that if the President of the Executive Council desired to give the signal on this occasion of his intention not only of dealing with the abdication problem, but of going on to deal with certain constitutional changes, that any regard for the feelings of a great and friendly neighbour would have suggested that we should have devoted ourselves to-day to the regularisation of the constitutional position, and to some signal of the fact that we feel deep sympathy with the trial and tribulation of the people of Great Britain. I do not believe the national status would have suffered from such a gesture. I believe it would have been in keeping with the attitude that this nation has consistently adopted when an old enemy or a new friend find themselves in deep tribulation. That is not the occasion upon which to challenge either a contest or try to add to the burden which fortuitous circumstances already demand they must bear.

In these Bills forms are adumbrated and terms employed which I cannot but feel will give deep and legitimate offence not to the politicians and constitutional lawyers of England but to the plain people of England, who, so far as I know, have nothing but feelings of the warmest regard not for the politicians or constitutional lawyers of this country but for the plain people of this country. I bitterly regret that any political expediency in the minds of the Fianna Fáil Party has induced them to make a gesture to-day which is open to the interpretation that I have indicated. I feel that damage has been done, and I only hope that language may proceed from the President of the Executive Council before this business is disposed of which will at least indicate to our neighbours across the water that whatever crudities may be employed in the terms of these Bills, the warmest sympathy of the Irish people goes out to the English people in the distress in which they at present find themselves, and that there is no desire here amongst the ordinary people to gibe or to use one single word that would hurt or aggravate the already grave burden that our neighbours in this difficult situation have been called upon to bear.

I urge the President of the Executive Council, in view of the representations that have been made from this side of the House, pointing out to him that adequate consideration cannot be given to the matters raised in these Bills in the time stipulated for in the Parliamentary Secretary's motion, that he should change his mind and take such steps as may be necessary to regularise the position arising out of the abdication, and postpone the detailed consideration of these measures to another day; or, in the alternative, to withdraw this motion and allow the House to deliberate on these Bills so long as the House deems it expedient to do so.

The members of the Labour Party are quite willing to face up to their responsibilities in connection with the discussion of the serious constitutional issues involved in the Bills that have been so suddenly placed before the House. I would appeal to the President, if he has any real respect for democratic principles or procedure, that he should amend the motion that is now under discussion. I know — I have reason to know —that Deputy Donnelly has no respect for the rights of the members of this House, other than the rights of the members of the Government Party and its back benchers whenever they are allowed to speak here. I have a recollection of Deputy Donnelly advocating the scrapping of this House. I believe, however, that the President does not hold views of that kind, but Deputy Donnelly, in the remarks which he made, conveyed his own views when he said, "The people of this country will know all about this to-morrow." I do not know how long the discussion on this motion is going to take, but at any rate it would appear that we are not going to have more than three or four hours at our disposal for the discussion on the Second Reading of No. 1 Bill. I ask the President seriously: Is that a fair and a reasonable chance to give to the members of this House, all of whom have their individual responsibilities, apart from Party responsibilities, in grave matters of this kind? I have no information at my disposal at the moment, other than the information that is in the possession of the ordinary members of the House.

These Bills were handed to me this morning, and when I read them I saw in the situation, which has not been created by ourselves, but created by the British, a golden opportunity which, if calmly considered, might help the Government and people of this country to solve some of our big political problems. For that reason, I am of the opinion that the time which it is proposed to allow for the consideration of these very important measures is not sufficient to enable the Government to get the views of the representatives of the people of the country. I admit that it is quite possible, and that it generally happens, that all the back benchers in the Fianna Fáil Party will be told to sit down, or lie down, or go out when the Opposition Deputies are speaking, and that the President can represent their views. I understand that he has put his views before his Party. I am sure he has the support of his Party in this matter, but that is not quite sufficient to enable the President to get the considered views of the people through the Deputies who represent the people here.

We all know perfectly well that the law advisers of this Government have proved themselves in the past not to be infallible — and also the law advisers of the previous Government on other matters. As I see the situation, it is this, that the law advisers have been called into sudden consultation with the President and other responsible members of the Cabinet. They sat until or after midnight, burning midnight oil, and they expressed certain views to the President which were subsequently conveyed to his entire Cabinet. On the strength of that, without getting the views of any other representatives of the people, or of Parties represented in this House, we are confronted with this guillotine motion and with two measures which we are asked to pass in such a short time. I could see a reasonable case being made by the President for carrying on the Second Reading of Bill No. 1, or of Bill No. 2, if Deputies did not desire to speak on the subject matter. I daresay Deputy Donnelly will make himself heard, if he is allowed to.

If the President is going to stick to the terms of the guillotine motion, I hope he will silence his back-benchers so as to give the other representatives of the people a reasonable opportunity of putting their views forward. The Second Reading of Bill No. 1 is to be concluded, according to the guillotine motion, by 8.30 p.m. I hope the President will not persist in that, in the interests of democratic procedure, and I am sure he will not if he has still any real regard for democratic principles.

He never had it.

I am afraid, Sir, you well remember the time in this House when, on matters of considerable constitutional importance, you set a bad example, and the members of this Party are sorry to see you——

Is the Deputy applying his remarks to the Chair?

No. Sir, certainly not. I am reminding Deputy O'Leary, because I believe he was in the House on a certain occasion when a guillotine motion, giving not the same amount of time, was pushed through the House by the machine majority of the late Cumann na nGaedheal Government— may the Lord have mercy on it.

Tell us what motion it was?

What is the reason for this urgency to-day? We know, of course, that the King who has abdicated has a representative in this country. Large numbers of Deputies, together with the overwhelming majority of the people, have never seen that representative since he was appointed by the King on the advice of the Executive Council. I live not far away from his official residence and I can say I never had the pleasure of looking at him since he was appointed Governor-General of this State.

Why not call up and see him some time?

As I say, he has not been seen; he has offended nobody; he has injured nobody. Where is the need for haste in getting rid of the representative of the King? Where is the need to get rid of him in the course of a couple of hours? He will not do any harm if he is left there for another few hours, and, in the meantime, Deputies will be given an opportunity of considering the much more important issues that are bound to arise out of this legislation. A colleague of mine mentions that he may be replaced by somebody who will be seen, who will make himself heard and who may offend or injure somebody.

That is coming.

I will say that on matters of that kind I would be quite prepared to face up to my responsibilities when the issue comes before the House in a proper way. I think the proper procedure now would be — allow the House to go on with the consideration of Bill No. 1 and, when that is concluded, to deal with Bill No. 2. I suggest that we should adjourn for a period so as to give Deputies an opportunity of considering the consequences of any vote they may give here.

We are confronted with a situation which nobody could have foreseen when the last general election was held here, which nobody could have foreseen even a couple of months ago. The President thinks he has looked at this thing from every possible angle. He has been given certain advice by his advisers. I think he will agree that there are others who are capable of giving advice and assistance. I hoped this morning when I read these Bills, after they were handed to me by the postman, that this situation, which has been created by the British King and the British Cabinet, would enable the people of this country to copy the good example set by British political leaders on matters of importance affecting their own country. I cannot help but admire British politicians of all Parties. The leaders of the different Parties were called together behind the scenes to consult and collaborate and decide and agree — and they did agree — to take common action in matters affecting their own country. May I express the hope that the position created by the British King and the British Cabinet for us will lead to a similar happy event here?

I think reasonable time should be given for the consideration of measures relating to big Constitutional issues of this kind, and I believe there should be an adjournment over the week-end. I think the President will agree, if his only anxiety is to get rid of the Governor-General, the King's representative, in a hurry, that we can put up with him for another week-end. The President should give us an opportunity of considering the various aspects of the legislation with which the various Parties have been confronted on such very short notice.

This guillotine motion appears to me to be absolutely indefensible. If the President had brought forward measures that were merely designed for the technical rectification of an anomalous situation, he might have been justified in asking for a guillotine motion to be passed; or, still more likely, he might not have needed a guillotine motion at all. But these measures go infinitely beyond the technical rectification of an anomalous situation and, indeed, I do not feel that they are an adequate rectification of a technically anomalous situation at all. They go far beyond that. They are measures of the utmost seriousness, that might be fraught with the most disastrous consequences to this country. Deputy Norton has referred to one of them as being the appointment of a new King of this country. I disagree with him. I can find no appointment of a new King for this country in what we may call Bill No. 2. What do we find? We find that it is proposed that the King, recognised by the other members of the Commonwealth as being the symbol of their co-operation and association, shall have delegated to him by our Executive Council, as and when it sees fit, certain duties. There is no word of our recognising him as King in any capacity at all for external or internal purposes. We just lay it down that we propose to use him in this particular way.

The President, with that simplicity which so much endears him to all Parties in this House and all Parties in the country, has expressed amazement that anybody should suppose that these measures were at all the business of other members of the Commonwealth. He was affronted by Deputy Cosgrave's question as to whether the other Governments of the Commonwealth had been consulted. What are we doing? We are, in fact, breaking up certain articles of partnership; we are substituting a new conception of the partnership altogether, without any consultation with the other Parliaments. Even if we could — which we cannot — accept the President's proposition that this is a thing that is no business of the other partners, there is yet a third party with whom consultation would seem to be not only appropriate, but necessary, and that is the new King. How do we know that this Bill is not going to subject this House and country to a resounding humiliation? How would it be if the new King said —as I would if I were in his shoes—"Go and be damned; I am not interested in acting as your deputy for certain purposes while I am not recognised as the King of the country?"

Not alone is it true that this House has a right to be given ample time for reflection before passing measures that may very well result in the severance of this country from the Commonwealth of Nations, but the country has a right to be given time to consider them, to be given time to consider the consequences of such severance, if such severance comes. And I regard these measures, not alone as quite probably involving severance from the Commonwealth of Nations, with disastrous consequences to the people of this country, and, above all, to the poor people of this country, in whom the Labour Party might show a little more interest than they are showing to-day when talking this clap-trap about the appointment of new Kings, and referring, with indignation which I can hardly believe to be genuine, to such futile matters as the obsolete wording of a 17th century Act of Parliament——

Is it still an Act?

It is still an Act but the wording, as every member of the Labour Party knows perfectly well, is not the wording that would be adopted by any British Parliament to-day, or would in any way correspond with the sentiments of the British people to-day. Deputies know that the Coronation Oath was altered years ago so as to take out the matters that were offensive, and very naturally offensive, to Catholic sentiment. As I was saying, these are measures that may affect the vital interests of this country and, above all, the poor of this country. They are measures which may perpetuate the evil we all feel most strongly about, and that is the evil of Partition. I wonder if a single member of the Government Front Bench or the Government Party has given a thought to the likely reactions of our fellow-countrymen, our Protestant and Unionist fellow-countrymen, in Northern Ireland to the provisions of these Bills.

I wish, in the first place, to protest most emphatically against the method in which these particular Bills have been introduced. I think the method is entirely offensive and distasteful and the time selected, I think, is about as inopportune and as unhappy as could possibly be selected by anyone stimulated only with a desire to reopen enmities and feuds, and to give offence to a neighbouring people at a time when sympathy would come better from us. We have a particular piece of legislation flung at us here this evening not only to bring about very grave and far-reaching changes in the Constitution of this State, but to mutilate to a very great degree, if not entirely to smash, the Articles of Agreement between this country and Great Britain, and we have legislation of that type introduced here with a clear statement by the President of the Executive Council that he has given it no consideration—none whatsoever. He does not know its reactions; he does not know its consequences. The State and the Parliament, and the people and the prosperity of the people mean so very little to that individual that, without consideration, he will gamble with their destinies and introduce this type of legislation. If he had time to consider it, and if his colleagues on the Executive had time to give ample consideration to that Bill, that would be absolutely inconsistent with the statement he made that he had no time to consult any other member of the Commonwealth. The two are incompatible. The reply given by the President to Deputy Cosgrave means that he takes his responsibilities so lightly and has such contempt for the destinies of the people that he introduces grave and far-reaching legislation of this type without any consideration or without knowing its immediate or remote effects.

I protest that it is not fair play to the country or to the Parliament. We are a single Parliament now, and at the time we were created a single Chamber Parliament all kinds of frothy pledges were given from the Government Benches that it would be inconceivable that a Government would ever effect major Constitutional changes or do anything of a violent nature without giving the Parliament ample time to consider it. What happened? Each Deputy of this House, or those who were reached, got two wires yesterday — (1) hold yourself in readiness and (2) the Dáil to meet to-morrow at 3 o'clock. For what? No information in the wire, good, bad, or indifferent; and by post this morning, a Bill goes out to each of the Deputies. Take any Deputy living at a distance. To get here by three o'clock, he would have to leave his home before the post arrives. He gets here at 3 o'clock, and the first motion tabled from the Government Benches is that that Bill is to be through by 10.30 as a matter of extreme urgency; and the man who moves that motion at least shows his sense of shame by not attempting even to advance one word to explain why it must be through at 10.30, or to make any case for the motion. The President, every one of his Ministers and every member of his Party sit there like so many dummies and not a voice is raised to justify this undemocratic action and violation of all the rights of Parliament.

In theory, every Deputy of this House has equal rights; in theory, every Deputy of this House has equal responsibilities: and to bring them up here and deliberately machine the programme so that only a tiny minority of the Deputies would have any opportunity of expressing their views is certainly ensuring that the voice of the majority of the Deputies will not be heard. It is exactly what many of us feared and most of us expected when the Second Chamber was abolished — that it was in order to give a free hand, not to a Party and not to an Executive, but to one man, because that Party and that Executive is treated normally as this House is being treated to-day. Their opinions do not matter; their voices do not matter. What one man, in a spirit of vindictiveness and recklessness, decides will be done, shall be done; and the only case made for the guillotine motion, and the only answer given when a request is made for arguments to be advanced, is for Deputy Donnelly to point to the members sitting around him on the Government Benches. That is not an answer. Might is not always right. Having the right to do a thing does not necessarily mean that you are right in doing it.

This bit of legislation has been introduced and is being put through in a thoroughly despicable manner. This bit of legislation, in the way in which it is being put through, has not the stamp of a statesman on it. It has the stamp and the brand of a shifty politician — the political opportunist who takes advantage of the fact that one particular thing has got to be done urgently and who because of that will link to it the thing he has linked, because it is shady, because it will not stand the light of day, because it will not stand a proper examination, because the person who introduced it is not prepared to stand up and argue it and prove to the Dáil and to the country that he has given it ample consideration or, in fact, is aware of its possible consequences. It is introduced in that shifty spirit, that we are told that there was a communication between us and the British Government and he does not remember whether it was telephonic, a direct verbal discussion or a written communication. Is this country such an unimportant plaything to that individual that he can take a decision to-day on a particularly drastic matter and it is of such comparative unimportance that he does not remember how, why, where or by what means he discussed it with the other party concerned? Is there any evidence of responsibility there? Is there any evidence in that statement, or in that answer, of the capacity of the individual to pilot through this Dáil legislation of a far-reaching kind? I suggest it is because of the very definite incapacity of the individual to pilot it through in a normal way that we have to put it through in this contemptible, abnormal way.

About the gravest and most far-reaching thing that can be done is to undermine the foundations of any institution. In the material sense, about the most reckless and dangerous thing that can be done is to interrupt or to invite the interruption of relations associating us with other trading communities. The President, in conveying, if he did convey, an outline of his intentions to another country on which his Government admits we lean materially, treated it so lightly that he does not know how the communication was transmitted, and, presumably, does not know the reply he got. If he does know the reply he got, surely this Parliament, this democratic Assembly, is entitled to demand that that information should be placed at the disposal of every Deputy in this House before he is asked to vote? There are some, possibly a majority, who are prepared to vote to jeopardise the future of the country, like mutes in blinkers. There are others who are not prepared to do that, but both the majority and the minority, in facing up to a Bill of this gravity, are entitled to have all the information that is available. If the House has to violate all the principles governing a democratic Assembly, and if we are to put this type of legislation through, racing against the face of the clock, we are entitled to have a case made for that urgency. Even if the case made were a weak case, or a bad case, it would not be so deliberately offensive as the way in which this guillotine motion was introduced to-day, without a word, without one line of explanation, without any attempt to say why the urgency, but merely "I move," and the answer, "Count heads." It is a foretaste of what we all have before us.

This legislation is to remove a symbol, a symbol that is powerless to interfere, from the Executive machinery and the Oireachtas of this country. According to speeches made by the President and others, what the future holds in store for us is to replace that symbol by an individual who will have powers to throttle this Parliament. As a Nationalist and a democrat, I would rather have any outer external symbol, absolutely powerless to interfere, absolutely powerless to obstruct, than to have anyone within the country with overriding powers over the legislation passed by a majority of the Parliament. I would have more respect for the legislation introduced in the name of a so-called republican Party who have fooled hundreds of thousands of electors to the cry that they were out for the establishment of a republic. I would not agree with them if they did that, but at least I would respect it as an honest course and a bold course, but this zebra legislation, merely to act the part of the musk rat, to undermine, to nibble away, to destroy as much as can be destroyed with safety, and to replace it by nothing — that type of legislation will get the respect of nobody, neither the person standing strongly for the republic nor the person standing strongly for the Commonwealth. They will join together in contempt not only for the legislation itself, but for the unmanly way in which it is introduced.

We have an attempt made here to defy, as far as we can with safety, our colleagues within the Commonwealth of Nations, to give as much offence as we can, to drift as far apart as we can with safety, to cling with our left hand to the tow-rope, while we waggle the republican flag with the right. If it is not a body to which it is good for us to belong, then we ought not to cling on to it in the contemptible position of a flea on the back of a dog, merely sucking sustenance from it, capable of giving a certain amount of irritation, but powerless to control the movements or to direct the animal itself, just going wherever the animal brings it for the little bit of sustenance. If I happened to be associated with a household, I would prefer to be in that household as a member of the family, rather than be tolerated as a beggar at the back door. The whole drift is that drift of servile attachment, and here we have it in these Bills that we are going to be in the position of being republicans in the Bog of Allen and Imperialists in Piccadilly; that we are going to say here at home: "We have got rid of the King, we are a Republican Government now," but when there is anything to be got, when there is anything to be secured, when we are sending a Minister to any point of the compass, that Minister will be accredited by the King of England, and the President here at home is going to strut about as the bogus President of a sham republic, but when he goes abroad he is going to be fêted and greeted by the accredited Ministers accredited by the King.

There is no half-way house between the Commonwealth association and separatism, meaning, isolation. There is no half-way house. If it is good to belong to the one, it is better then to belong to it in an open, honest way and get all that can be got out of it. If it is bad to belong, we should go out completely. Both under the previous Government and under this Government experience has proved that the symbol of association is absolutely powerless to interfere with the will of the Parliament here or with the will of the people here. Experience under two Governments has shown that. Why jeopardise the association, then, by bringing in this type of legislation and rushing it through before it can be examined? It is clear that this legislation is not and has not been introduced in the interests of the country, either present or future. It is introduced in order to justify the doubtful political record of certain individuals; in order to justify an unfortunate past. We can forget that past, and we can forget that past without damaging the future. If we had to select and if we had a choice between having to keep the King somewhere within the Constitution, and it was a case of keeping him here at home inside the internal half of our Constitution, or having him in the external half of our Constitution, if we think really nationally, it would be far less harmful to have him in the internal half. If you have him here in the internal half, the people are close up against the position, and the people would see, from day to day, that all power is in fact in the hands of the people and of the people's Parliament, and that that particular symbol has no effect and is powerless to stand against or interfere with the people or the Parliament. But selecting, as the President does, for selfish political reasons, to use him in the capacity abroad, nationally—that is the more harmful nationally; that carries potential danger; but the whole idea of the Bill is not designed for the progress of this country nationally or otherwise. It is designed and introduced out of motives of political expediency. It is introduced with discreditable haste. It is introduced in a way that shows contempt for the people and contempt for their Parliament. It is introduced by a President who tells us he has no time to consider it, and because he has no time to consider it he is going to ensure that the members of the Parliament have no time to consider it.

Countries progress by thought, by study, by careful consideration given to every step taken by careful planning, and careful building. Countries collapse and go to disaster by hasty, reckless, thoughtless legislation. There can be neither good luck nor blessing on the type of legislation that is passed under the directorship that directs this Bill, or passed under the conditions in which we are asked to pass it here this evening.

I move:—

That the Question be now put.

In the course of the Deputy's speech, which I did not care to interrupt, he referred repeatedly to the President as "that individual." He also spoke of the President as "acting the part of a muskrat," though, indeed, the words were subsequently qualified. Bringing such phraseology into currency in Parliamentary debate is not desirable.

By way of explanation, Sir, with regard to the phrase about the muskrats nibbling and undermining the foundations, what was in my mind—I do not recollect the exact words—was to point out that the effect of this type of legislation was to nibble and undermine. With regard to referring to the President as "that individual," I have always tried to be careful to address the President as "The President," and I regret it if I used the other phrase.

The President has moved that the Question be now put.

General Mulcahy rose.

The Chair is accepting that motion.

Is there to be any explanation from the President as to the urgency of the motion?

No questions may be asked after the Chair has accepted the closure motion.

Question put: "That the Question be now put."
The Dáil divided: Tá, 71; Níl, 55.

  • Aiken, Frank.
  • Allen, Denis.
  • Bartley, Gerald.
  • Beegan, Patrick.
  • Blaney, Neal.
  • Boland, Gerald.
  • Boland, Patrick.
  • Bourke, Daniel.
  • Brady, Brian.
  • Brady, Seán.
  • Breathnach, Cormac.
  • Briscoe, Robert.
  • Carty, Frank.
  • Clery, Mícheál.
  • Concannon, Helena.
  • Cooney, Eamonn.
  • Corbett, Edmond.
  • Corkery, Daniel.
  • Corry, Martin John.
  • Crowely, Timothy.
  • Daly, Denis.
  • Derrig, Thomas.
  • De Valera, Eamon.
  • Doherty, Hugh.
  • Donnelly, Eamon.
  • Dowdall, Thomas P.
  • Flinn, Hugo V.
  • Flynn, John.
  • Flynn, Stephen.
  • Fogarty, Andrew.
  • Geoghegan, James.
  • Gibbons, Seán.
  • Goulding, John.
  • Hales, Thomas.
  • Harris, Thomas.
  • Hayes, Seán.
  • Jordan, Stephen.
  • Keely, Séamus P.
  • Kehoe, Patrick.
  • Kelly, James Patrick.
  • Kennedy, Michael Joseph.
  • Killilea, Mark.
  • Kilroy, Michael.
  • Kissane, Eamonn.
  • Lemass, Seán F.
  • Little, Patrick John.
  • Lynch, James B.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • MacEntee, Seán.
  • Maguire, Ben.
  • Moore, Séamus.
  • Moylan, Seán.
  • Murphy, Patrick Stephen.
  • Neilan, Martin.
  • O'Briain, Donnchadh.
  • O Ceallaigh, Seán T.
  • O'Dowd, Patrick.
  • O'Grady, Seán.
  • O'Reilly, Matthew.
  • Pearse, Margaret Mary.
  • Rice, Edward.
  • Ruttledge, Patrick Joseph.
  • Ryan, James.
  • Ryan, Martin.
  • Ryan, Robert.
  • Sheridan, Michael.
  • Smith, Patrick.
  • Traynor, Oscar.
  • Victory, James.
  • Walsh, Richard.
  • Ward, Francis C.

Níl

  • Alton, Ernest Henry.
  • Anthony, Richard.
  • Beckett, James Walter.
  • Belton, Patrick.
  • Coburn, James.
  • Cosgrave, William T.
  • Costello, John Aloysius.
  • Curran, Richard.
  • Davin, William.
  • Davitt, Robert Emmet.
  • Desmond, William.
  • Dillon, James M.
  • Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
  • Dolan, James Nicholas.
  • Doyle, Peadar S.
  • Everett, James.
  • Fagan, Charles.
  • Finlay, John.
  • Fitzgerald, Desmond.
  • Fitzgerald-Kenney, James.
  • Good, John.
  • Haslett, Alexander.
  • Hogan, Patrick (Clare).
  • Holohan, Richard.
  • Keyes, Michael.
  • Lavery, Cecil.
  • MacDermot, Frank.
  • MacEoin, Seán.
  • Bennett, George Cecil.
  • Brennan, Michael.
  • Brodrick, Seán.
  • Byrne, Alfred.
  • McFadden, Michael Og.
  • McGilligan, Patrick.
  • McGuire, James Ivan.
  • McMenamin, Daniel.
  • Minch, Sydney B.
  • Morrisroe, James.
  • Morrissey, Daniel.
  • Mulcahy, Richard.
  • Nally, Martin.
  • Norton, William.
  • O'Higgins, Thomas Francis.
  • O'Leary, Daniel.
  • O'Mahony, The.
  • O'Reilly, John Joseph.
  • O'Sullivan, Gearóid.
  • O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
  • Pattison, James P.
  • Redmond, Bridget Mary.
  • Reidy, James.
  • Rice, Vincent.
  • Rogers, Patrick James.
  • Rowlette, Robert James.
  • Thrift, William Edward.
Tellers:—Ta: Deputies Little and Smith; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.
Question declared carried.
Question put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 71; Níl, 55.

  • Aiken, Frank.
  • Allen, Denis.
  • Bartley, Gerald.
  • Beegan, Patrick.
  • Blaney, Neal.
  • Boland, Gerald.
  • Boland, Patrick.
  • Bourke, Daniel
  • Brady, Brian.
  • Brady, Sean.
  • Breathnach, Cormac.
  • Briscoe, Robert.
  • Carty, Frank.
  • Clery, Mícheál.
  • Concannon, Helena.
  • Cooney, Eamonn.
  • Corbett, Edmond.
  • Corkery, Daniel.
  • Corry, Martin John.
  • Crowley, Timothy.
  • Daly, Denis.
  • Derrig, Thomas.
  • De Valera, Eamon.
  • Doherty, Hugh.
  • Donnelly, Eamon.
  • Dowdall, Thomas P.
  • Flinn, Hugo V.
  • Flynn, John.
  • Flynn, Stephen.
  • Fogarty, Andrew.
  • Geoghegan, James.
  • Gibbons, Seán.
  • Goulding, John.
  • Hales, Thomas.
  • Harris, Thomas.
  • Hayes, Seán.
  • Jordan, Stephen
  • Keely, Séamus P.
  • Kehoe, Patrick.
  • Kelly, James Patrick.
  • Kennedy, Michael Joseph.
  • Killilea, Mark.
  • Kilroy, Michael.
  • Kissane, Eamonn.
  • Lemass, Seán F.
  • Little, Patrick John.
  • Lynch, James B.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • MacEntee, Seán.
  • Maguire, Ben.
  • Moore, Séamus.
  • Moylan, Seán.
  • Murphy, Patrick Stephen.
  • Neilan, Martin.
  • O Briain, Donnchadh.
  • O Ceallaigh, Seán T.
  • O'Dowd, Patrick
  • O'Grady, Seán.
  • O'Reilly, Matthew.
  • Pearse, Margaret Mary.
  • Rice, Edward.
  • Ruttledge, Patrick Joseph.
  • Ryan, James.
  • Ryan, Martin.
  • Ryan, Robert.
  • Sheridan, Michael.
  • Smith, Patrick.
  • Traynor, Oscar.
  • Victory, James.
  • Walsh, Richard.
  • Ward, Francis C.

Níl

  • Alton, Ernest Henry.
  • Anthony, Richard.
  • Beckett, James Walter.
  • Belton, Patrick.
  • Bennett, George Cecil.
  • Brennan, Michael.
  • Brodrick, Seán.
  • Byrne, Alfred.
  • Coburn, James.
  • Cosgrave, William T.
  • Costello, John Aloysius.
  • Curran, Richard.
  • Davin, William.
  • Davitt, Robert Emmet.
  • Desmond, William.
  • Dillon, James M.
  • Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
  • Dolan, James Nicholas.
  • Doyle, Peadar S.
  • Everett, James.
  • Fagan, Charles.
  • Finlay, John.
  • Fitzgerald, Desmond.
  • Fitzgerald-Kenney, James.
  • Good, John.
  • Haslett, Alexander.
  • Hogan, Patrick (Clare).
  • Holohan, Richard.
  • Keyes, Michael.
  • Lavery, Cecil.
  • MacDermot, Frank.
  • MacEoin, Seán.
  • McFadden, Michael Og.
  • McGilligan, Patrick.
  • McGuire, James Ivan.
  • McMenamin, Daniel.
  • Minch, Sydney B.
  • Morrisroe, James.
  • Morrissey, Daniel.
  • Mulcahy, Richard.
  • Nally, Martin.
  • Norton, William.
  • O'Higgins, Thomas Francis.
  • O'Leary, Daniel.
  • O'Mahony, The.
  • O'Reilly, John Joseph.
  • O'Sullivan, Gearóid.
  • O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
  • Pattison, James P.
  • Redmond, Bridget Mary.
  • Reidy, James.
  • Rice, Vincent.
  • Rogers, Patrick James.
  • Rowlette, Robert James.
  • Thrift, William Edward.
Tellers: Tá: Deputies Little and Smith; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.
Question declared carried.
Barr
Roinn