I accept the Parliamentary Secretary's explanation in regard to that. In regard to tweeds, I think there are men engaged in the weaving of tweeds earning as much as £2 10s. or £3 a week. Nothing would be more disastrous for this industry than if it were to get abroad that these goods were being produced by sweated labour, particularly having regard to the choice article that is being produced. I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will deal with that question, and so prevent that unfortunate impression from getting abroad. Last year I had something to say about the quality of these goods. My grievance then was that these goods did not conform to the strict trade description. My ambition was that they should accurately answer the trade description, that is to say, that they would be worthy Gaeltacht products, that everything connected with them would maintain the high reputation connected with Gaeltacht products, and be true to the description of a hand-produced article. I am particularly delighted to hear that a new spinning factory is being erected at Kilcar, and that henceforth, when these goods go on the market, they will fully answer the trade description and maintain a high standard of quality.
I regret to note that the Department is not taking part in the exhibition at the World's Fair in New York this year. I think that is regrettable, seeing that there is also a paragraph here which expresses a hope for the further extension of the demand for these products in the United States. There is no doubt about it that the obvious market for these goods is the United States, particularly during the war, which may last for a very long time. I think we would be prudent in assuming that it is going to last a very long time. I am curious to know what were the factors that operated in influencing the decision of the Department not to take any part in, or to have any exhibit at, the World's Fair this year. It is not yet too late to reverse that decision. I think the Parliamentary Secretary could, if necessary, introduce a supplementary Vote to enable him to take part in it.
In that connection I should like to have heard from the Parliamentary Secretary some statement as to the results of last year's exhibition at the World's Fair. I think it was at a meeting of the Council of the Federation of Irish Industries some time during last winter, there were grave complaints as to how our industries were represented at the World's Fair, how the exhibits were shown, and what accommodation there was for visitors with regard to supply and other matters. The test whether that is true or not would be provided if the Parliamentary Secretary would state here and now what increase, if any, took place during the second half of 1939 in the sale of these products in the United States. Can he say whether our agents in the United States had increased bookings for the later half of 1939, and the first half of 1940? We had the statement published by the Federation of Irish Industries, and we had also the opportunity of hearing the views of some people from the United States who visited the leaders of respective Parties of this House last year, some time late in September. There were also some friends of mine who visited the World's Fair, and they were very far from gratified at the way in which our goods were exhibited there. I am putting it very mildly in expressing myself in that way. Apparently, these opinions have been confirmed by the statements made at the Federation of Irish Industries. I cannot say whether the Parliamentary Secretary visited the Fair himself or not. I know that the Minister for Local Government went out there to open the Irish pavilion, and that the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Industry and Commerce also visited the Fair. I do not know whether the Minister for Lands or the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister went out there, but if he did not, he should have done so. The obvious market for the products of this industry is the United States. The population is there, and the money is there to buy this class of goods. They will buy them, provided that the price and the quality are right for the purposes for which they are required. In this connection, the Parliamentary Secretary is confronted with a delicate problem in the immediate future. No doubt, from the business point of view, he has got to face that.
He is opening a new spinning mill in Kilcar. As I said already, that has my benediction, but it must be remembered that it presents difficulties, firstly, with regard to the buying of the wool and, secondly, with regard to the dyeing of the wool and the getting out of the right colours in order to get the right designs and patterns in the finished product. There is no use in evading that: I merely want to warn the Parliamentary Secretary and the officials of the Department that particular attention will have to be given to that branch in its infant days. I know nothing of the technical side, but being in business and watching these mills, I know that it will take the utmost care for a number of years—it will take care always, but especially in the first four or five years—and I only hope that in its initial stages it will be very successful and that serious injury will be avoided by the production of the right quality goods. As I say, the colouring will have to be brought out to suit the current designs, and to make this a truly Gaeltacht product. It has got its pitfalls, unless the technical men put at the head are highly efficient and know the various branches involved.
The Parliamentary Secretary made a general statement as to the increased market, but I would like this to be much more detailed. We are dealing with a purely business matter, and everything should be detailed as far as possible. I would like to know how the goods are proceeding with regard to sales in the home market, both for current bookings and forward bookings, and, as I said before, with regard to the American market. I think it would be regrettable if this branch were not represented at the World's Fair, particularly if no other branch of the industry is being represented there. I take it that the Irish stall there is still in existence, and I wonder if it is being used for any other purpose or if it is being left to some other country for the current year. I notice that a new factory is going to be opened at Annagry, and provision with regard to machinery, a manageress and assistant manageress has been made. There is, however, a curious oversight in not stating its nature. As I said before, this is going to be done, I take it, as a rural industry, but that is a very vague thing.
Another very hopeful statement I would like to see materialise is that with regard to the production of toys. I have heard often in the last seven or eight years, when new industries were being launched, that if you queried the current price on the home market you were told everything was going to be all right and that it was also hoped to develop an export market. I do not see why this industry should not be fully organised; there is now a particularly favourable opening for it on account of the war. In the past everything made for a child in the way of a toy was stamped "made in Germany"; I think there is a favourable opportunity now for it if it were mobilised and got going. While one would think it was not so, toys depend upon design and quality. You can turn out a toy by sewing up some thing or by stuffing something and calling it a toy but that will not do. Design and quality are as highly technical in this as in any other industry. Seeing that the central factory was destroyed by fire, one cannot expect too much for the moment, but I hope the new factory will be got going as soon as possible. Also I think it would be wise—though I do not know the present position with regard to machinery—that the machinery for the new factory should be of a most modern type, in view of the conditions existing in Europe, in the hope that the most modern toys in regard to design and quality will be produced there. By that means only can we obtain an export market and cater for the home market. There can be nothing more hideous than an ugly or badly-made toy.
I think the housing matter is explained and that what the Parliamentary Secretary said in his statement is quite true, unfortunately. There is a way out of that. The increase in the cost of materials and timber has caused people to fight shy of construction and if the war lasts a few years that will be regrettable. Might I suggest to the Parliamentary Secretary and through him to the Minister and the Department to increase the grants to a minimum of, say, £110. The Northern Government— though I cannot state at the moment whether or not they are doing it through the British Government—are giving grants of £125 for the construction of small three-roomed houses. Pehaps they are building these in terraces, but one can visualise the effect of that subsidy of £125 for three-roomed terrace houses. I think it would be well spent money, as if the people stop reconstructing these houses—which will transform the entire Gaeltacht—there may be trouble in getting started again. The Vote is reduced by, I think, £6,000 this year. That, of course, is not a huge sum but it shows the tendency that is developing. I think it would have been a wise thing for the House to consider the effect of increasing these grants to a minimum of £110, or perhaps £120, having regard to current prices. In regard to whether the roofs are slated or tiled, I think nothing arises on that matter. Tiles and slates are produced in the country.
There is one other item: the question of kelp. Some five or six years ago we suggested to the Department that they should mobilise the amount of public money paid in these areas, outside pensions of various kinds, and put it into this Vote, and pay £6 a ton to the producers of kelp, and store it. These areas are being subsidised in any case. The problem is there, and has got to be faced. We suggested that all this money be centralised, and that £6 a ton be given for the production of kelp. Some time during the winter the Department issued a notice to the kelp gatherers and burners that they offered £5 10s. 0d. a ton. I wonder if the Department has any information in regard to the result of that notice. I fear from what I have seen along the sea coast that the younger men who used to do this type of work have now stopped doing it. Some time ago I was walking along the shore in Donegal in a kelp-gathering area, and I was amazed to find tons and tons of rods of seaweed coming in, and there was only one old man down there with a rake gathering them up. I had a chat with him. He looked well over 70 years of age, and he told me he was 75. I thought that it was a rather strange thing that there was nobody to come down to gather seaweed except a man of 75 or 76 years of age. With this interregnum, and nothing having been done to subsidise them and keep them working, I feel that the kelp-gathering industry has completely stopped. I would be interested to know from the Parliamentary Secretary what are the results of the advertisement that he issued offering £5 10s. 0d. a ton. Do the reports from his inspectors indicate that the men are resuming the gathering of the seaweed and the burning of the kelp? I have examined the question, and I think the sum to attract men to do it should be not less than £6 a ton. It is laborious work, a wet, heavy, dirty job. Again, of course, you have to relate the remuneration to the fact that during the last war the price of kelp went up so high that they were spoiled in a way. You have to keep that in mind also in fixing a price in order to keep them in the industry, gathering the weeds and burning it. I would like to have heard more from the Parliamentary Secretary about this industry. He need not evade it at all. I think it would have been a wiser thing to make a more extensive examination of that question, and to give the House a full sketch of how matters stand in this direction, because those who are acquainted with this question know that enormous sums of money were earned at times in this industry, and there were whole areas where the people had nothing to depend upon except the kelp industry, salmon fishing, and a small amount of inshore fishing in the small boats that they had. I am curious to know how these men are living. The kelp industry having gone, fishing having gone badly, are they existing on a few shillings of the dole? If that is so, it is highly regrettable, because they were hardy, vigorous, virile members of the community. I would like the Parliamentary Secretary to tell the House and, what is more important, the men who pursued this in the past, what is the position at present.
I am afraid we need not deal with carrageen at all. One is very curious to know what has caused the almost complete failure of the development of this branch of the marine products carried on by the Department, because, as far as the Vote is concerned the thing is a complete failure. I wonder is it due to the fact, as the Parliamentary Secretary says, that the public have not appreciated the food and medicinal value of carrageen? That may be so. I remember long years ago a traveller was sent down from a Belfast distillery to sell whiskey, and he said: "I will make them drink it for their breakfast, dinner, and tea." I rather think that if you put any commercial product on the market, market it well, label it well, turn it out neatly, get a good salesman, and advertise the product you can nearly sell anything. I would be curious to know what is really the cause of the failure. If demonstrators were put into leading shops for a week to cook this thing publicly, and give every customer a sample, I do not see why it could not be sold in the same way as a great number of these things which have really no food value at all, such as Bird's Custard Powder, and other things, on which people spend endless money. Deputies may laugh, but they talk about the Gaeltacht and preserving it, and make speeches about it. That will never get us anywhere. There are a lot of these goods which are competitors of carrageen. Everybody knows the taste of them, but so far as food value is concerned, they are not worth the snap of my fingers. Carrageen has a high food value, a high calcium content, a small quantity of iodine and something of cod liver oil.
On the Vote for the Department of Local Government there was some talk about whether milk or cocoa would be the better to give school children. I would suggest that the question be considered of giving the children a small bowlful of carrageen at school with some sugar, and a small quantity of milk. Carrageen is a product which if it were handled in the right way should not be a failure. The Parliamentary Secretary should get instructresses into the leading shops in this country at first and then send them over to the towns of England, to the shops there. The English people produce such things as Bird's Custard Powder and such fancy types of goods that have a nice flavour but practically no food value. Tons of them are sold in this country every year. There may be causes that I do not see but I do not understand why they could not be overcome. There was an exhibition in Glasgow a couple of years ago. I take it that there was a carrageen stand there, that there was an instructress there cooking it and serving it to the public. I wonder was that done and, if it was done, with what success with regard to booking orders.
On the other hand, is the sale of this carrageen being put into the hands of a commercial agent who is not troubling about it? Has he authority from the Department—I am only looking for information, because I do not know—to undertake this matter of advertising, getting the services of young ladies and giving them the equipment and the goods, and booking shops for a week here, there and everywhere all over the place from town to town in this country? They should do that in this country first, and then follow a similar procedure in England, Scotland and Wales. Do they do that, or have they any authority to do it? If not, why not? Because that is part of the marketing of this commodity. Newspaper advertising is all right. We know how the goods that are produced in order to compete with this commodity are pushed. First, there is an enormous newspaper advertising campaign, and along with all that they send their agents round the shops. I do not see any reason why something of the same kind should not be done in this case, because every day's work of any kind that we can put into the Gaeltacht areas is essential and necessary. I think it was an unfortunate thing that the Department of Fisheries was segregated from this Department. They are practically the same thing, they deal with the same problem, and I believe that they should be together. I also hold that they should be outside this House and that there should be some way of dealing with them where they would not be subject to Party debate in here. They should be kept out of politics.
Now, to summarise all that, I should like to hear from the Parliamentary Secretary: (1) What he is going to do about the technical staff in the new weaving factory in Kilcar? (2) What about the stocks: have any stocks of wool been bought, or has any arrangement been made so that they will be available at the time the factory is capable of producing? (3) What has been the success of the efforts of the Department at New York World's Fair last year with regard to booking orders, as distinct from hope or potentialities, with a view to seeing what they actually did; also, had we agents in the United States, and what reports were got from them with regard to the potentialities of the markets for these goods? (4) What is being done to ensure that the new toy factory will be one of the most modern that could be found anywhere, with the most modern machinery, capable of producing toys of the best quality and designs? (5) What is the supply of nitrates coming from Chile to Great Britain or what restriction, if any, there is upon that supply and, if so, is there anything that would show any prospect of increasing the market for kelp? (6) If it is worth mentioning at all, because this Vote for carrageen has gone so low that it appears to be at its last gasp—does the Parliamentary Secretary intend to pursue that campaign more intensely, because I think that, if something is not done about it, it would be better to wipe it off altogether instead of having this small thing stuck in here.
On a couple of occasions I have mentioned here—I tried first to get the attention of the members of the House and then of the public—its feeding value for live stock. Nothing was done in that direction, however, but even at the risk of repeating myself, I mention it now. I have tested the matter and I am quite certain that there is a high food value in it for young animals. I have no doubt of that, in view of its various constituents. I should like the farmers to give it a trial for the feeding of their young stock because I can assure them that what I have said is quite right. In these days, owing to the war, they have difficulty in getting linseed and linseed cake for calves, and I suggest that, if they want to cut that out, they could do so by substituting carrageen. It is a lot cheaper than linseed and is equally as good if not better.
