When I reported progress on Thursday night I was dealing with what I considered to be a better system of training for teachers than the system at present in operation and I suggested that it would be desirable that teachers should obtain a university degree. Teachers in the Cities of Dublin, Cork and Galway have every opportunity of obtaining such degrees after their training course but I hold teachers, even in the remotest part of the country, require to have as high qualifications as those in the cities and towns. That is to say that in these far distant districts, children are deserving of the best possible education that can be afforded to them. I do not mean of course to suggest that the system I have indicated for the training of teachers would be the best method nor do I hold that it should be put into operation, but it is something worthy of consideration. There is a widespread opinion among members of the teachers' organisation and other bodies interested in education that the present system is not the best system that could be devised. I hope, therefore, that the Minister will, at some future date, consider the matter to see if any better system can be found and put into operation either wholly or gradually.
I now come to the school buildings, where the children and the teachers have to spend five or six hours each day. During the war years the building of schools, like the building of houses and hospitals, was suspended. As a result, a great deal of arrears now have to be made up. During the past two or three years numbers of splendid schools have been put under construction. I suggest that there are very many schools in a state of repair that could be described as not exactly too bad and before they become worse it might be well if certain reconstruction work was carried on so as to leave them in a suitable condition until such time as better schools can be erected. There are many schools which are entirely unsuitable for the children or the teachers. Indeed, there are some buildings that are a menace to the health of those who have to use them. For some reason—it is not a question of money—there seems to be a great delay in finding sites, and so many architects and engineers have to deal with them that years seem to pass before anything is done in connection with the new buildings. I have in mind some two or three very bad schools in my own area. During the past few years we have been pressing for the erection of new schools, but that seems to be as far away as ever. I know the Minister and his Department are doing the best they can, and so are the other Departments concerned, but there seems to be trouble in finding sites. I wonder could they be obtained compulsorily?
There is also the difficulty of the local contribution. There are some areas where it is almost impossible to get the people to contribute anything. I think people, if they are interested in the education of their children, should do their best to contribute something and so help the managers in this matter in a better fashion than they do. In latter years people seem to have the idea that everything should be done by the State. It would be much better if they would only realise that the children are their responsibility, and they should make a greater effort to see that the schools in their localities are properly constructed and equipped.
I would like now to refer to the important questions of heating and cleaning. Even though the Department allocates grants for this purpose, it is still the custom that the children have to do the work of sweeping the floors, dusting the rooms, laying the fires, and so on. A grant is given on the basis of the average. There are, say, schools with an average of 60, 70 or 80. There are two rooms and these rooms require to be thoroughly heated. It is not so difficult in that case, because of the local contribution given by the parents in the way of turf, or money to purchase turf or wood, and there is also some contribution from the manager. But in the case of schools with an average of 25 or 30 you still have two rooms and they have to be heated for the children just as well as the rooms where you would have 60 or 80 children. It is difficult in that case because you will have a limited number of parents supplying the turf or the wood. It would be more equitable if a grant were given to the schools according to their size, whether they consist of one, two or three rooms, rather than have the contribution on the average basis.
In connection with most schools it can be said that the old sanitary system is entirely out of date. I think steps should be taken so that you might have a septic tank or something like that constructed. In addition to that, there should be a supply of drinking water. It is the custom in some schools when the children, especially during the warm summer, want a drink, they have to go to a nearby stream which may be, perhaps, polluted, or to a nearby river. One often wonders there is not more fever arising out of that practice.
Provision has been made to allocate a certain sum to help necessitous children to purchase books. It is not always easy for the teacher to know what child is necessitous. In fact, there has been a widespread demand for the supply of free books to all schools. I do not agree with that. I hold that people look too much to the State. Parents are responsible for the upbringing and education of their children. If the State were to take full control, parents might then lose the interest they other wise would have in their children and they would not continue to contribute something towards their education. In really necessitous cases I agree it is absolutely essential, and it is a good policy, to help the children, but I still think the parents should offer something towards the supply of books and other school requisites.
Fully 90 per cent. of the children of this country receive their education in the national schools, and I think that in order to improve their education provision should be made as soon as possible for raising the school-leaving age to 15, and later to 16 years. In that case it would be necessary, perhaps, to have attached to each school what I may call a higher primary department with a teacher to teach special subjects. In other words, it would be a type of school which would fit in between the primary and the secondary. In every parish there should be some provision made so that the children can receive vocational education. They would attend the primary and the higher primary schools, and then move on to a vocational school. At the present time the vocational schools are built in the cities and towns. I think it would be more advantageous if they were erected in the open country, amid all the beauties of nature. There should be attached to each such school a plot where demonstrations could be given, say, in agriculture. In that way you would mould the minds of the children into a desire for working on the land and you would teach them also at least the elements of agriculture.
When I speak of a vocational school in every parish, I do not mean the elaborate and palatial buildings erected in towns and cities. I am just thinking of an ordinary hall or two-roomed building, not very elaborate, but properly equipped. Perhaps if the Department of Education would co-operate with some of our local bodies in the provision of parish halls, these would be quite suitable buildings in which to carry on vocational education to a certain extent. There is no such hall available in many of our parishes. Perhaps courthouses, or some other buildings under the control of local authorities, could be made available for this purpose. It is quite unfair that, while the people in county council or corporation areas have to pay for the upkeep of vocational schools, their own children have no means of getting a vocational education, due principally to the absence of buildings in which to give it. I think that something might be done in that respect. I do not expect that it will be done overnight, but I think that gradually facilities should be made available so that eventually vocational education will be at the disposal of all children whose parents cannot afford to give them a university education.
Since the Minister took over control in the Department of Education he certainly has improved the salaries of teachers, pensions for teachers, and generally conditions of service for teachers. While the demand of the teachers, in the first instance, was for arbitration in connection with salaries and conditions of service, they accepted the setting up of the Roe Commission to deal with these matters. When it was set up they had great expectations of good things coming from it. While the Minister, or the Government, did not accept the majority report of the commission, or fully implement its findings, it was a matter for gratification that the Minister did adhere to the principle or structure of the majority report, even though he did not concede the minimum or maximum salaries that were embodied in it. Even though the teachers are not satisfied with what has been done, still I can assure the Minister that all sensible teachers throughout the county realise that he did his best, and that if he fell short of their expectations it was because other members of the community required an increase in wages. At any rate, while he could not meet the full demand at present, I want to say that it is still the policy of the teachers' organisation to have the findings of the Roe Report fully implemented. The Minister has now promised that he will set up an arbitration committee to deal with the salaries and conditions of service of primary, secondary and vocational teachers within the year. I feel sure that his promise will, to a great extent, satisfy the teachers for the present, in the expectation of good things coming in the future.
It is regrettable, when the implementation of the Roe Report was fixed for the 1st January of this year, that in the new pension scales provision was not made for those teachers who were still in the service when the Roe Commission was set up on, I think, the 7th January, 1949. After all, those teachers did expect some benefit from the findings of that report, and they still hope, and we all hope, that in the near future when, perhaps, more in the way of finance is at the disposal of the Minister and the Government, provision will be made to give the benefit of the new pension scales in the Roe Report to those teachers. I can assure the Minister that the pensioned teachers are doubly grateful for the provision that he made in the matter of increased pensions for them last year. There were, of course, some snags, and these still exist, because the pensioned teachers did not, in some cases, receive what they had expected. It is, however, a great matter that their demand, which had been made over many years, was met to some extent. I remember that when the demand was made to the previous Minister he said that the Government had fulfilled all its obligations to the pensioned teachers, and he left it at that.
I want now to refer to the position of lady teachers who have to resign on marriage. It is not my intention to go into all the arguments which have been put forward from time to time on their behalf. I would like, however, to refer especially to one section of them—those who were in the preparatory and training colleges at the time the rule was promulgated. They entered the service at that time on the understanding that, even though they got married later, they could still continue to teach if they so desired. The position at the present time is that we are experiencing a difficulty in getting substitute teachers when their services are required, and so we have to accept the services of untrained teachers without any qualifications except, perhaps, that they possess the leaving certificate or have matriculated in the university.
At the opening of my speech I paid a tribute to Deputy de Valera for what he had done during the short time he was Minister for Education. I should like now to pay a tribute to the present Minister. In fact, I think I have already paid a tribute to the very many things that he has done for the welfare of the teachers and for education in general during the past few years. If I were to enumerate all that he has done it would show that great advances have been made. In speaking of the Minister it would, perhaps, be no harm if I were to pay tribute also to the officials of his Department. Like other Deputies, I have noticed that at various times they have been assailed from all sides; that they are bureaucrats and that the Department itself was a sleepy hollow. I want to say that during my time as a Deputy, I have not found that there have been any delays on the part of the officials in dealing with the matters put before them. I can say that I, and other Deputies to whom I have been speaking on this matter, have had that experience at all times. Not only have there been no delays on the part of the officials, but we have received from them at all times the greatest courtesy.
