Telephone Capital Bill, 1951—Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Mr. O. Flanagan

Grave dissatisfaction exists among certain sections of the community who have applied for telephones and have not got them. The Minister last night gave us a list of people whose applications would be given special consideration, according to their profession or occupation. I would like the Minister to repeat the list of persons who are being given priority, at a later stage in the debate. I would ask him to have very close inquiries made concerning applications by persons for whom a telephone is absolutely essential for the efficient discharge of their duties. I pointed out last night and I wish to reiterate that, in the past year and a half, a number of recently qualified solicitors have applied for telephones to be installed in their offices and that these applications have not been attended to as they might have been. I am asking the Minister to see to it that, with the least possible delay, within the next three months, those people, whose livelihood depends on their having telephones in their offices, will be provided with the service.

It is worthy of note that we are reaching the stage when tradesmen should be placed on the priority list for the telephone service. Take the case of plumbers. If a plumber's house is not connected with the telephone, grave difficulty may be experienced in summoning the plumber to carry out urgent work. A leaking pipe cannot be left unattended indefinitely. It is a matter of urgency. I respectfully recommend to the Minister that any plumber who applies for a telephone should be put on the priority list and that no time should be lost in providing him with the service.

I understand that there is a regulation in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs that anyone who employs six or seven persons will be provided with a telephone, on application. I would make a plea on behalf of a number of undertakers who have applied for telephones and who have not got them. There are undertakers who employ four or five carpenters, drivers and other employees. Such people are worthy of more consideration than they have been given.

The Minister told us last night that the village of Horseleap, half of which is in his constituency and half of which is in mine, was about to be provided with a public telephone. Would he tell us what other areas will be provided with telephones within the present financial year and what number does he expect will be completed, and in what areas, by the 31st December of this year?

In the Midlands, there has been very much dissatisfaction due to the delays that take place in connection with phone calls. The Minister will find a file in his Department which contains complaints from the traders in Edenderry as to the unreasonable delay that takes place in getting a call through from that town to Dublin. The distance by road is 37 miles. I have known traders there who had important business to do in Dublin. They found that it took less time to make the journey by car from Edenderry to the city and back than wait to get a phone call through.

Mr. Davin

How long does it take to get a phone call through from Portlaoise to Mountmellick?

Mr. O. Flanagan

The distance between the two towns is four and a half miles, and at times it takes 20 minutes to get a call through. The people in Kilcormack, in my constituency of Offaly, also feel that they have suffered a long grievance in the matter of getting calls through to Dublin. The delays from Kilcormack are very long. Complaints have been made to the Department on the matter, supported by strong representations from the clergy, the parish council and others.

Notice taken that 20 Deputies were not present; House counted, and 20 Deputies being present,

Mr. O. Flanagan

It is with regret that I have again to direct the attention of the Minister to the most unsatisfactory state of affairs which prevails in Kilcormack, Mountbolus and Rath districts. I understand that, in the case of a call to Dublin, it has to go first to Birr, then to Athlone and from Athlone to Dublin. I fail to understand how this service cannot be improved, and thus help to remove the grievance which the people in the Midlands complain of in this respect.

I trust that the Minister will endeavour to see that, as far as possible, every country post office will have a telephone connection with the least possible delay. I believe that the Department has a scheme in hands to enable that to be done. It was prepared by the Minister's predecessor. I hope that no time will be lost in carrying out the work planned by the previous Minister, and that the scheme will not be left on the shelves in the Minister's Department to be covered with dust and surrounded with cobwebs. I am hoping that the scheme which was prepared by the Minister's predecessor for connecting up country post offices with the telephone system will be put into effect without delay.

Could the Minister tell me what would be the approximate cost of the erection of one pole for a telephone line? I should also like to have from him an indication of the total amount of the damage that was done in the Baltinglass area as a result of poles and wires being cut there.

Mr. L.J. Walsh

The Deputy should let sleeping dogs lie.

Mr. O. Flanagan

It is right, I think, that the House should have that information. These poles and wires were cut by the supporters of Miss Cooke who are now the friends and colleagues and supporters of the Minister. Surely he will be in a position to tell us the amount of the damage that was done by his friends in connection with the Baltinglass affair. I should also like to have information as to the inconvenience that was caused to the users of the telephone in the Baltinglass district as a result of that damage.

Captain Cowan

They would not use it.

Mr. O. Flanagan

I should like to have from the Minister an estimate of what it cost to replace the wires and poles which were damaged. The Minister must now find himself in the position when he should lose no time in providing information of that character. It was bad taste on the part of anyone to dream of tampering with the telephone service. I hope that, despite whatever difficulties we may find ourselves in in the future, or what personal prejudices may prevail, no one will ever again dream of interfering with the telephone service. It was bad taste that such a thing should have been indulged in there. I feel sorry that it should have happened in any part of the country.

The position in that district would, indeed, have been very serious if, as a result of the damage done, it was impossible for people to call a doctor in an urgent case or to summon an ambulance. Those who did the damage can be properly described as a group of blackguards. I cannot understand how those who did it were not discovered by the Gardaí, why they were not arrested and why they are not in jail to-day. I look upon it as a grave reflection on the Garda Síochána in the area. Every effort must not have been made. Men who would go out and cut telephone wires and cut poles should have been brought to justice. I look upon that as a failure on the part of someone. Now that it did happen, I hope that anything of the kind will not be experienced in the country again. I trust that the Minister will give information to the House as to the amount of damage that was done, and of what it will cost the taxpayers to replace the damage done by the blackguards in the Baltinglass area who are now looked upon as champions and heroes by the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs.

Mr. Cafferky

The Minister will remember that when I was speaking on another Bill for his Department a few weeks ago, I referred to the Claremorris Exchange. I reminded him that for a number of years back this House, the Minister and his predecessor had been subjected to very severe criticism because of their failure to have a modern exchange erected in Claremorris. We are still awaiting a development in that direction. The Minister was recently appointed to the office of Minister for Posts and Telegraphs. He is a young man, and I hope that he will take my remarks into consideration. I trust that, at the first opportunity, he will do something to ease the situation in that part of the country. Apart from the capital city and some large cities and provincial towns, I do not think there is any other county more deserving of consideration than the one I represent. It is a county which is thickly populated. A large amount of cross-Channel business is transacted in the County Mayo. The amount of inland business that is transacted there is also very large. The deplorable state of affairs which exists there at the moment is beyond description. I hope, therefore, that the Minister will be able to do something shortly for Claremorris by providing it with a modern exchange which will help to ease the present situation and be of benefit to the general community.

Complaints have been made by speakers that it takes 20 minutes and upwards to secure a call for certain distances. The distance from my county to here is something like 120 miles. If I want to put a call through to Dublin, it takes something like two to three hours to secure that connection. I think that is very primitive. I do not believe that in any country in the world, whether the people be black or white, there is anything to equal the primitive system we have here at the moment. If we intend to spend a large sum of money, some millions of pounds, on the development of our telephonic communication, I hope the Minister will give prior consideration to those areas most deserving. In doing that, he will be doing some good and that good will be appreciated.

I would further like to ask the Minister, as Deputy Oliver Flanagan, who preceded me, has done, to give prior consideration, over and above the ordinary private individual, to the various categories the Deputy has outlined—doctors, solicitors, business people, clergymen and certain classes of tradesmen. I would like him also to consider the erection of public telephone boxes in every village worthy of note. The Minister will appreciate that in rural Ireland post offices close at 7 p.m. It is after that hour that many people wish to make calls when they are free to do so, but they are prevented, due to the fact that post offices are closed, and that they are not permitted, under certain rules and regulations, to use the phone in the barracks. For that reason the Minister should recognise that it is absolutely essential that he should have erected in every village and town a public telephone box in order to facilitate the public.

It is unfair that the general public must place themselves at the mercy of the Garda Síochána. As far as I and a number of other people are concerned, the Garda Síochána are very obliging, but it is unfair that the people should have to impose themselves upon their generosity. The Garda Síochána are tied by rules and regulations and they are infringing these rules and regulations by obliging the public, thereby endangering their own position. I would, therefore, ask the Minister to consider in the near future the provision of the necessary facilities in every village.

I cannot stress too much the need for a modern exchange at Claremorris. Since I spoke here on the Estimate for Posts and Telegraphs, I have been informed that a similar situation exists in the town of Ballina. That means that the whole of the county is suffering from the need of reorganisation of the telephone system. I know full well that the Minister is aware of that, having spent holidays in my part of the country, and having had reasons to put calls through. Perhaps he got priority, being a member of this House and being a Parliamentary Secretary in past Governments. The ordinary individual cannot get priority although he is as much entitled to consideration as any Parliamentary Secretary or any member of this House. His business may be equally important and it is unfair that he should be hampered by having to spend hours waiting in a town or village to secure a connection with Dublin or any other city or town. As I stated at the outset, Mayo is a county where large business transactions are carried out daily due to the fact that we have a large number of citizens who live outside this country. If we wish to contact Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Edinburgh, London or any of the other principal cities and towns in Great Britain, the delay is deplorable.

For that reason, I would impress upon the Minister to give, at his earliest convenience, prior consideration to Mayo. There are two constituencies in that county, north and south. We do not mean to be too hard on the Minister, but rather to give him ample time and ample consideration. He is new to his office and has undertaken new responsibilities. Let us wait and see, and time will tell. However, if he is not in a position to present a different case this time next year from that which has been presented over a period of years, he is going to fall into the same position as his predecessors have fallen, and to merit the same criticism. I hope that will not be the case. We do not wish to criticise any Minister. We wish to co-operate with and to assist the Government. We do not wish to be in the position to criticise. Indeed, we wish the opposite was the case. We desire to be able to congratulate the Minister, his Department and the Government as a whole. There is nothing to be gained by obstructive criticism or even by constructive criticism, and it would be much better if both could be avoided. I hope that by this time next year I will be in a position to rise and congratulate the Minister, on behalf of the people whom I have the honour to represent, for having erected new exchanges in Claremorris and in Ballina.

Mr. L.J. Walsh

I rise to add my appeal to the Minister in connection with one particular point, that is with regard to the provision of telephone services for the heavily populated areas that have no such connections. I think that the time has come when the Department should give more consideration to the equitable distribution of telephone services generally.

In my own constituency there are, as is well known, very thickly populated parishes which have no telephone services. I do not expect the Minister, as do other Deputies, to accomplish impossibilities. The start has been made, and I hope that the Minister will keep before his mind the urgent necessity of those rural areas rather than concentrate on urban areas which are already sufficiently provided for. Of course, there may be occasional pressing cases in towns and in larger villages where people are clamouring for telephone services, but I sincerely think that the people in thickly populated rural areas are most entitled to prior consideration. I would impress upon the Minister the necessity of keeping that point in mind when he comes to the distribution of the new telephone services.

Mr. D.J. O'Sullivan

I wish to intervene briefly in this debate to put the following point to the Minister. His predecessor, some time back, furnished, in reply to a question, details of the sub-post offices throughout the country to which it was intended to give telephones during the present year. I contend that we have had, since then, developments of an economic character, in relation to our agricultural industry in the constituency which I represent—North Cork—and in some adjoining constituencies, which demand favourable consideration of the Minister. I maintain that these areas deserve post offices before other areas do. The agricultural developments to which I refer are in connection with the extension of artificial insemination. Ordinarily, those offices are used, possibly, for social contacts and, on occasions, for matters of more importance. Now it is essential that the offices in the areas in question should be supplied with telephone connections with the very minimum of delay.

I would further ask the Minister to give attention to the overloaded trunk lines in the areas where telephone connections are already established. I know that in my home town we have to wait on a call for hours. I agree with the Deputies who spoke before me that it is fantastic the amount of time which people have to spend in post offices waiting to get a connection, often to a city not 40 miles distant. Much of the delay would be ameliorated if we had some education in the proper handling of the telephone. Many people are phone shy. We could make a start in the schools. That may be outside the orbit of the Minister, but it could be raised on the Vote for Education. This would apply especially to the rural towns where we have now dial phones, such as Castleisland. I would ask the Minister to consider the question in relation to sub-post offices in agricultural areas where artificial insemination is now spreading.

Mr. Davin

I would appeal to the Minister to look into the whole question of telephone organisation as soon as he can get down to his job. During the last 12 months I have heard innumerable complaints about delays in the city as well as in parts of my constituency. I have heard of people waiting for a long time in the case of calls to places a very short distance away, in the case of getting through from Portlaoise to Mountmellick, of which Deputy Flanagan was speaking. Not having any expert knowledge of the technical side, I cannot explain the delay to myself and I am not sure that the Minister could explain it either, but I know it has taken over half an hour for a distance of four and a half miles. I did not intervene to criticise the present Minister or his predecessor in connection with this. I do not know whether the delays are due to the shortage of efficient staff or whether there is any check up by supervisory staff. If there are doubts about statements made here, as to the justification of the complaints, there should be a periodic check by supervisors.

The last Deputy talked about the overloading of the telephone system in certain towns. That must be correct. I appeal to the Minister to look into it, as he understands the meaning of the word "efficiency" better perhaps than many who have taken part in the debate. He has long commercial training and experience, as well as experience as Parliamentary Secretary and Deputy and should be able to say whether there is an improvement or not. I had an experience recently, which I did not report, where I had to dial six times before I got an answer when seeking a trunk call. That may be an unusual experience and there may be a justifiable explanation. I do not know if many complaints are received from the public, in the Department responsible for supervision, but the majority of those who complain to Deputies and others do not take the trouble of confirming the complaints in writing. Now that the Minister is getting increased capital for development, there is a good case for an investigation into the present organisation, to see how far the telephone service can be improved.

Mr. M. O'Reilly

I notice that most Deputies are requesting installation of telephones all over the country. I do not think there is any use in doing that, as it would create only greater confusion. County Meath exports a lot of cattle as well as other commodities and telephones are in great demand, but in the case of Trim, Navan, Kells or Oldcastle you would reach Dublin more quickly in a car than through a telephone message. Something must be done, though I am not in a position to say what should be done. I think there should be more lines and a bigger staff. The telephone is a comparatively modern and extremely useful invention. There may be difficulty due to the shortage of materials, but I understood the previous Minister to say there was an unlimited supply of telephone machines. We have not seen them. I am sure the present Minister knows exactly what he has. It is wrong to deceive the people and if these instruments are not procurable they should be told so.

The business people require telephones, and since we must have more tillage and since machinery breaks down, an efficient telephone system is absolutely necessary. If it is not efficient, it is better to close it down. I would like the Minister to tell us if he has any supply, or any guarantee of a supply, of instruments, or whether wire is short, or what is wrong. From Trim it takes two or three hours to get Dublin by phone. That may be due to need for another line, which I suppose could be suspended, as the posts are there. The community would be satisfied if they knew what the difficulties were and there would not be such an appeal then for telephone boxes.

Mr. O'Donnell

It is evident that there is a shortage of telephones and particularly of kiosks. During the emergency the Department of Defence at considerable expense erected lookout posts all round the coast, each connected with the public telephone. So far as I am aware, the telephones and poles are still there, though the posts are no longer in use. The Minister should seriously consider whether it would be to the benefit of the public if those posts could be used. In Donegal, one of them would be most beneficial, and I think the officials should look into the matter.

In the Six Counties it is customary to find telephones at cross-roads. We know the Automobile Association down here have a number of telephone kiosks on the road, which are most useful to the locals and to travellers. Where possible, kiosks should be erected at cross-roads, as they would be useful to motorists and travellers and would also serve as a local convenient meeting place. I join with Deputy Flanagan in asking the Minister to give priority to my colleagues—solicitors setting up in business. It is an advantage for a solicitor to have a telephone, and a considerable disadvantage if he has not got one.

Even at the risk of being told I am quoting the rag, tag and bobtail, I would appeal to the Minister to have telephones installed on all the islands. In West Donegal we had an unfortunate tragedy on Arranmore 16 or 17 years ago, which would not have occurred if we had a public telephone service to the mainland and those lives would not have been lost. The service is needed particularly at night. At the moment, we have a limited service, but it is really when the islanders are in the dark that they require some communication with the mainland, as when the boats are out the islanders are anxious to know whether they have left the mainland or not. I appeal for a 24-hour service for all the islands off our coast. Until that proves possible, I appeal to him to include in the 10 o'clock news each night fishing news from all over the country. It is impossible for fishermen and buyers to contact the market in Dublin by telephone—I have waited six hours for a call to Dublin—and it would be beneficial if there were a daily broadcast of the fishing news.

There seems to be something wrong with the line between Dungloe and Ballybofey, where the wires are evidently connected in some way with the telephone service used by the railway company. Particularly after a storm, one finds railway officials butting in in the middle of a telephone conversation. Possibly that could be remedied, but although I have personally made several protests about it nothing has been done. Perhaps the Minister and his officials would look into the matter.

I again appeal to him to give priority to the sub-post offices. If it is essential to open a sub-post office, surely it is equally essential to install a telephone there. There are three in West Donegal —Meenbanad, Meenacross and Dunlewey. If they require a doctor in Dunlewey, they have to travel ten miles to get one, and a telephone service would be very beneficial. The Minister by introducing this Bill is doing something which may improve the service and I appeal to him to pay particular attention to the points raised by Deputies to-day.

Mr. Keane

I have not the same complaints as other Deputies regarding the telephone service. Undoubtedly, there are delays at times but they are often unavoidable. I appreciate the services that are given and the effort made by this particular Department since I came to know of it intimately three and a half years ago. They have tried to install telephones at the places most advantageous to the community. I have seen only two telephones installed in farmers' dwellings. I am amazed that people who claim to represent farmers have not made some suggestion, constructive or destructive, since we have brains listening on the other side which could put the suggestions together and arrive at something tangible. Deputy Cafferky, in particular, might have referred to the farmer's need of a telephone in his house. There may be a lack of instruments at present or a lack of labour, but the Minister should remember that the agricultural community all over the country need telephones. I am not confining this to my own area, which is an intensified dairy area, or the area Deputy O'Sullivan spoke about, where artificial insemination is carried on on broad lines and where they have even a wireless station with their own cars operating for 20 miles and in touch with the station, about which I am sure the Post Office know the details.

You have cases where farmers apply for telephones and if these were given even in a mild way, it would fill the needs of many of the population in that area. The Irish farmer is both hospitable and generous and if a neighbour wants a phone call he would be obliged. There is too much talk about the towns and villages. In the area I come from, the towns and villages are pretty well provided for. In the town where I live, there is an automatic service. I believe that automatic services would get over the difficulty of delays. The Minister is a young man and should face up to this problem immediately. Whilst we have switches, we will have young ladies and if there is a little delay, well, we were all young one time ourselves. I have not heard many complaints and never had reason to complain myself, unless I drew on my imagination and said five minutes was 20. Those delays will be there while you have switches. Conversations go on, or there may be priorities, or there may be one call or even 20, before mine, and it is a case of first come first served. As an experiment, the Minister should pin point a certain area, so as to give service to farmers who require a telephone installed.

I do not want to sound the reveille as far as Deputy Cowan's fusiliers are concerned, but I suggest to the Minister that this thing as far as we are concerned is dead. Should an emergency arise and should the forces of the State not be in a position to meet it, remember that you have Deputy Cowan's fusiliers ready for action, ready to protect the lives and property of our citizens and, if necessary, to fight and conquer.

Mr. J. Flynn

I would ask the Minister to depart from the system which is in operation at the moment. I made representations about the installation of telephone services in Kerry and I was informed by the late Minister that the system arranged was that each county would be done in its entirety. I understand that they established some sort of zoning system and in that way it might take ten years before our people in Kerry or in any other county could avail of these services which are urgently required. That is why I make this suggestion at the very outset.

I would remind the Minister that in Kerry the system is antiquated. In our small towns and villages it is not unusual to find people waiting for hours to get calls through. They are informed by the postal authorities that there is a one-line service but they should have a double line service such as exists in other areas. One case in particular which has been under consideration for the past 13 years is that of a rural district touching on the seaboard where we have a fishing industry, Cromane, County Kerry. I was informed last year that under the zoning system the Department might be able to consider that case next year. Fancy being informed by the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs that a scheme which has been under consideration for 13 years might be dealt with next year. I am quoting that as an example of the Department's antiquated methods.

It was a grand thing to read the Minister's statement that £8,000,000 would be provided for telephone services. It would be better to get down to business if it is at all possible, and to get technicians, staff and equipment and develop immediately even if it means going outside the country for these technicians and trained staff. Where is the good in broadcasting to the nation that you are providing £8,000,000 for telephone services if you are not in the position to live up to your promise and embark on immediate development?

In our county we have made representations over and over again for the extension of telephone services to outlying districts. There is an area adjacent to Killarney called the Black Valley across the hills, and the people in that valley have no telephone connection with the outside world. We have asked for a connection. The place is only six miles from the nearest centre, but although the question has been under consideration for a long time nothing has been done.

I should like to emphasise these points because people in towns and cities are well organised and very well able to look after themselves, but people in the rural districts have no organisation and no one to speak for them, so it is up to us to insist and to ask the Minister and his Department to get down to business at once and put the scheme into operation immediately.

Captain Cowan

I had not intended to speak on this, but yesterday I had the experience of wanting to make a telephone call from the North Wall area here in Dublin. I searched around the North Wall, the property of the Ports and Docks Board, and the Liffey dockyard, but I could not find a public telephone anywhere in the area. The Minister knows the importance of the area; thousands of people are employed there who have occasion to use the telephone from time to time and many hundreds of people visit the area on business every day who naturally may need to get in touch with their employers or head office as matters arise. I was so astonished to find such inadequate public telephone facilities that I decided to take the matter up with the Minister and would have done so privately were it not that this opportunity arose of putting my case on the records of the House in connection with this Bill to which it is so relevant.

While I agree, as I am sure the Minister agrees, with the case for the extension of telephone facilities all over the country, I must say that in Dublin there is still an inadequate telephone service in so far as the people who have to use public telephone services are concerned, and I think that there should be a drive now to provide a public telephone or kiosk in the vicinity of every important crossing in the city. The population of Dublin being what it is there is a very heavy demand for public telephones and one must occasionally travel a good distance to make a telephone call from the street. I would ask the Minister to look after that important area I mentioned and also to consider the extension of public telephones in the city.

Deputy Davin mentioned to-day an experience he has had and I think it is the experience of every Deputy and every person who has occasion to make trunk calls at certain hours of the day. One dials the number to get trunks and one has to wait a very long time, sometimes ten minutes, sometimes longer. That is not just an isolated experience; it is quite a common experience at particular hours in the day. There may be some explanation for it; it may be due to changing of staff or shortage of staff or something else. To people who have to get telephone messages through quickly, that is an unreasonable delay. I support Deputy Davin and the other Deputies who have drawn the Minister's attention to this matter.

Mr. Davin

My case was on Sunday morning.

Mr. T. Brennan

I want to deal first with the matter of telephonic communication in rural Ireland. I am sure every Deputy in the House is proud that our people are becoming telephone minded, so to speak. We are all glad of the demand for the installation of telephones.

The Minister referred to the number of subscribers and he stated that it may be necessary to withhold the installation of telephones for private subscribers until the development of the telephone system proper is carried out. He used the word "may". I should not wish to deprive any member of the community of having a telephone installed in his house, but I should like to point out to the Minister that the necessities of certain rural districts deserve his prior attention. I find very often in my own town that I have to wait an hour or an hour and a half to get a trunk call through to Dublin. Sometimes a person has to wait even as long as an hour and 40 minutes and, eventually, cancels the call because the business house he wishes to contact has closed for the evening.

Deputy Cowan mentioned that the people of Dublin have to wait ten or 15 minutes, but just consider the position of a person in a rural area who has to go to a sub-post office in order to make the telephone call.

Notice taken that 20 Deputies were not present; House counted and 20 Deputies being present,

Mr. T. Brennan

I was trying to bring home to the Minister the necessity for the erection of extra telephone lines in rural districts before he gives permission to increase the load on lines that are already overloaded. I am sure that the Minister and his officials know the areas that I have in mind when I ask him to speed up the provision of the necessary extra lines in order to carry the demand that the public expect and so that our people will not have, on occasion, to wait an hour or an hour and a half or an hour and 40 minutes on a cold winter day in a small sub-post office, smoking cigarettes in order to try to keep themselves warm, only to find, eventually, when the call comes through, that the business house in Dublin which they wished to contact had closed for the evening.

For years those of us whose business it was to bring the matter before the respective Ministers in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs have been pointing out that in certain rural areas there is no telephonic communication, no minister of religion, no doctor or nurse. The people in these areas have to travel maybe eight or nine miles for medical or spiritual attention and sometimes those who need the medical or the spiritual attention have not the wherewithal to hire a motor car to transport them, and a horse and cart, or often a bicycle, must be used. I have referred to this matter on previous occasions and while the requirements of certain portions of County Wicklow have been met there are still some small villages which need to be attended to. I hope that when the necessary lines to carry the extra load have been provided, immediate steps will be taken—following up on that work—to have installed in the different villages the telephonic communications which are so essential to the people in these areas.

Mr. Dunne

In discussing this matter the Minister should have regard to what I believe is a very important aspect, and that is the apparent difficulty experienced by the Department in obtaining the services of skilled technical staff. We may make plans for increased telephone facilities in this country, but I suggest that such plans may prove unreal unless we determine to remedy that great deficiency. I believe the Minister should address himself in the future to the inadequate rates of remuneration at present made available to the technical staff. Anybody who has come into contact with this question at all is aware that the wage rates applicable to the skilled manual staff and semi-skilled and even unskilled staff in the employment of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs are not such as would attract the type of skilled technican required in the extension of the telephone service. I trust that the Minister will give consideration to that matter.

It was recently announced that large numbers of State employees would receive increased remuneration by reason of the Civil Service award. It is my hope that the Minister will avail of that opportunity of an upward trend in wages to improve the rates of pay being offered to workers in the Post Office and to remedy the very unsatisfactory position, especially in regard to casual workers employed in the store department of the engineering section.

It is neither right nor equitable that the provision of telephone kiosks generally should be approached always from the point of view of their financial success. It must be obvious that the provision of telephones in this day and age is an essential matter. It should not be entirely a question of whether a telephone kiosk will pay or not, nor should that be the determining influence as to whether it should be erected. Very often, when you have a small community of people, it is quite probable that a telephone kiosk would not pay for itself, but that does not take away from the importance of the service to the people concerned. Even if it means that some degree of sub-sidisation must ensue for isolated areas, I still think it would be a progressive move for the Minister to make.

Many Deputies have talked about different parts of the country. It is not my intention to go into details as to my own constituency which surrounds the capital city, but in the case of many villages and towns—towns such as Swords and small villages such as Loughshinny—telephone facilities are just as inadequate, within five or ten miles of the heart of the City of Dublin, as they are in the heart of Deputy John Flynn's constituency in the very remote parts of the County Kerry. This springs from the fact that, when a local need becomes apparent for the establishment of a telephone kiosk and when a local demand is made, the yardstick or test applied by the Department seems to be: "Will the kiosk pay for itself or not?" That might be all right, that might be sound economics, but it is not socially good for the people. I hope the Minister will endeavour to get away from that particular point of view as far as he can. I hope that telephone facilities will be provided on the basis of the need that exists for them rather than on the probable financial returns they will give when they are provided.

Mr. O'Hara rose.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy has already spoken.

Mr. O'Hara

With your permission, Sir, I just want to draw the attention of the Minister to three sub-post offices in the North Mayo area, each of which is situated approximately five miles from the nearest telephone. I would ask the Minister to take a note of them. They are Killasser, Swinford, Knockmore and Knockanillaun. I would especially request the Minister to have these sub-post offices connected by telephone.

I was glad to hear Deputy Dunne refer to the rates of pay of employees on the technical staff of the Post Office. In my own area we have linesmen and others who are underpaid. While that state of affairs exists, we cannot expect to attract the best type of individual into the telephone service. I should like to join with Deputy Dunne in his appeal to the Minister to give special consideration to these classes.

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht - Thursday, 5 Jul 1951

Telephone Capital Bill, 1951—Second Stage (Resumed).

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 5 Jul 1951