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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 13 Feb 1952

Vol. 129 No. 3

Committee on Finance. - Vote 29—Office of the Minister for Justice.

I move:—

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £1,200 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1952, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Justice.

The Supplementary Estimate is necessary to meet the increased costs of salaries due to staff changes in the head office of my Department and to provide for the payment, with retrospective effect, of improved salaries to some of the staff of the Office of the Censorship of Publications. The employment of an additional typist was necessary for the work of the Committee of Inquiry into the Garda Síochána and the Rents and Leaseholds Commission. A sum of £100 is provided for a gratuity to the Secretary of the Committee of Inquiry into the Garda Síochána.

I propose to take a canter on the subject of censorship. I venture to say that every correspondent of the Irish Times will now be sharpening his pencil to see if he could hang a laurel wreath on what I am going to say—another Papist shaking off the stranglehold of the Scarlet Woman of Babylon. However, this Papist has no intention of shaking off any of his links with the Holy Roman Catholic Church, and that much having been said, I want to ask if it would be possible to prevent a situation arising in which, it seems to me, grave scandal is given, when some old silly billy here declares that a book is, in its general tendency, indecent, and when one reads in the newspaper the following morning that the Archbishop of Westminster recommends all Catholics to read the same book. A book was adopted by the Catholic Book of the Month Club in the United States of America almost on exactly the same day as we declared it to be, in its general tendency, indecent. One of Graham Greene's novels was recently consigned to the ashcan. Then the attention of the Censorship Board was directed to the fact that he was a Catholic author of outstanding merit and the book was promptly taken out of the ashcan.

Has the Minister control over censorship?

Mr. Boland

Not now, thank God.

He has just appropriated money for the payment of the staff of the Office of the Censorship of Publications. I recognise the difficulty, but all I am asking is that it ought not to be beyond our joint genius to prevent a book such as Graham Greene's last novel being condemned as indecent in its general tendency. Then when the attention of the Censorship Board is directed to the fact that that is a very grotesque finding, instead of standing their ground and saying that, in any case, it seemed indecent to them, they promptly take the book out of the ashcan and restore it to circulation. I have got the feeling that such an action makes their whole censorship grotesque and that it evokes public distrust. This whole question of censorship is a difficult one. I have never heard anyone yet successfully maintaining the proposition that any form of filth which people try to dump on us should be accepted. I do not think that anybody could effectively make that case though it is extremely easy to make a powerful case against any form of censorship, and it is a case which appeals very strongly to the unsophisticated mind and very often most strongly to the most highly sophisticated mind. It is, therefore, of very considerable importance that if Oireachtas Éireann has decided in principle to accept the censorship of books Oireachtas Éireann should keep its eye jealously on the administration of that most dangerous power so as to see that it is, first of all, conducted with propriety and with due regard to human liberty, and it should also have some realisation of the peril of bringing censorship into universal and incontrovertible ridicule. I fully appreciate the difficulties with which the Minister has to contend and I sympathise with him. His predecessor and his predecessor's predecessor met with the same difficulties, and were the Minister to say to me: "All we can do is to appoint the best men we can find and leave them to act accordingly. Can you propose a better way?"—I am not so sure that I could do it. I would not be able to answer him off the cuff, but by hopping and trotting I think we should be able to evolve some device which would ensure hereafter that novels widely acclaimed by Christian audiences were not foolishly condemned only to be reinstated after a very cursory examination. The books which secure the acclamation of so large a body of Christian people as the American Catholic Book of the Month Club should not be stigmatised in this country.

Lastly, in regard to the novel of Marcel Proust's A la Recherche du Temps Perdu the Board of Censorship should not put upon so law-abiding citizens as myself the obligation of wasting the present Minister for Justice's time and patience by applying to him for ad hoc licences to bring in the sixth volume of that work. Is there any reason in a Censorship Board prohibiting the sale in this country of Le Temps Retrouve? They might in some shape of prudence or propriety have mentioned other novels in that sextet of classics. Do you not think, Sir, that it is necessary if we are voting on a Censorship Board to try and overcome the universal reluctance of Deputies and Senators to mention a word on censorship for fear they would get eaten? It is a serious thing to do so. There are two great dangers in talking about censorship. One is that one may be praised in the leading article of the Irish Times and that is ruinous politically and the other is that you may be misunderstood by some of your more obscurantist neighbours and that requires vigorous action in the ecclesiastical arena. I propose boldly to pursue a course between Scylla and Charybdis. I am not prepared for the moment to indict the Minister for Justice. I am quite satisfied he is as anxious to see reason prevail in this matter as I am.

I do not think it is any harm to direct attention to certain of the absurdities to which I have referred not for the purpose of condemning in general principles the censorship because after very long and anxious thought I have come to the conclusion that in a civilised community one has to accept the need of the right to prevent the promiscuous distribution of pornography amongst ourselves, not amongst our betters or our inferiors but amongst ourselves. In accepting that right I think the duty is heavily upon us to see that the powers granted are moderately and prudently administered and to protect our people from legitimate scandal-taking, if such a board by its actions suggests that some of its decisions have been capricious and so much so that on their being questioned they were almost immediately reversed.

Mr. Boland

I will say this much that when I first came to the Department of Justice the Minister for Justice had to ban all those books that were put up to him by the Censorship Board. I did not like it because the Irish Times went out of its way to say that Mr. Gerald Boland had done it. I do not see any alternative to getting a body of people. It is a voluntary body. There is a pretty good and representative Appeal Board there now and I do not see how we are going to improve on this system. If Deputy Dillon knows any way and if he cares to put down an amendment to the Act we will consider it. I do not see how you are going to have a better system than having an appeal unless you are going to get the unfortunate Minister into it. I did not expect a full debate on censorship here on an Estimate that would give a few shillings to a member of the staff.

It is good for you.

Mr. Boland

It is very good indeed.

Vote put and agreed to.
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