I assume that the Minister will say something interesting before this debate concludes and, consequently, I will not deprive him of whatever reasonable time he requires for that purpose. This motion falls into two parts. It is certainly 25 or 30 years ago since I, in conjunction with the leader of the Labour Party at the time, advocated what is contained in the first portion of this motion. A revolutionary change, however, has taken place in the meantime in regard to the whole transport and traffic problems of this country. I suggest to the Minister, and perhaps it is not the first time it was suggested to him, that the demand made in the motion can be directly related to the big problem of transport reorganisation. I do not know what the policy of the present Government is in regard to transport reorganisation. I do know, however, that there is in the minds of the principal Ministers of the Government an idea that there should be a closing down of a big portion of the railway system of this country. The Minister for Industry and Commerce forwarded to the Transport Tribunal not very long ago suggestions for consideration and recommendation for the closing down of ten branch lines. I only referred to this because if these recommendations are eventually approved by the Minister and the Government there will be another aspect of the transport problem to be faced, namely, the provision of better roads in the areas where these branch lines will be closed down. Arising out of that there will be the consequential problem of who is to pay for the new iron roads in these areas. The proposals in the motion are only part and parcel of that big transport problem which requires that the collective wisdom of the Cabinet should be brought to bear upon it, and I hope that a decision will be come to at a very early date.
Since I and others advocated that the main and trunk roads should be made a national charge the cost of constructing and maintaining these main and trunk roads has been considerably increased by the increasing extent to which these roads are used, not principally by the local ratepayers, but by the owners of commercial lorries, who are using these main and trunk roads for profit-making purposes. I take the view that the main and trunk roads are being used to the extent of 80 or 90 per cent. by the owners of commercial lorries, private cars and hackney cars, and that their upkeep should be paid for by these people, especially the people who use them for commercial and profit-making purposes. Therefore, the issue raised by Deputy Flanagan in this motion is only part and parcel of a very involved problem, both from the financial point of view and the national policy-making point of view in regard to transport generally. Nobody knows better than the Minister for Local Government that during the last 20 or 25 years, as a result mainly of the increased cost of constructing and maintaining these roads, as well as the county roads, the ratepaying community have been called upon to bear a much heavier burden than they had to carry previously.
Deputy Flanagan, in the second portion of his motion, asks for favourable consideration by the Minister and his colleagues of increased grants for the repair of county roads or by-roads which have been practically destroyed in the turf-cutting counties. The Minister will, from the records at his disposal, know that during the emergency period road maintenance work, so far as it affected county roads in particular, was deferred because the county council road workers were transferred from their normal work of road maintenance to the turf-cutting operations which were undertaken for national purposes by the county councils in the turf-cutting counties.
In the two counties of the Constituency of Laois-Offaly, the road workers normally employed on road maintenance work were transferred for a big portion of their working year to turf-cutting and turf-saving operations. As the Minister's files will confirm, the result was that these counties were not able to make use of the grants normally given at that time to other non—turf-cutting counties. The road grants that were made available and that might have been used by turf-cutting counties like Laois and Offaly were not used and were, I understand, transferred and used by other counties outside the turf-cutting areas. I would like the Minister to deal with that and say whether, generally speaking, my assertion in that respect can be borne out by the records which are at his disposal. If that is so, I think there is a very good case, on those grounds alone, for the proposal contained in the second part of the motion moved by Deputy Flanagan.
I do admit — and I do not know whether the Minister will agree — that were it not for some of the valuable grants that were given to some of these turf-cutting counties under the Works Act, 1949, some of the roads I know fairly well in the Counties of Laois and Offaly would be impassable at the moment. The county roads or by-roads in the two counties in my constituency are, without exaggeration, in a terrible condition and it is very unfair to the ratepaying community in these turf-cutting counties in my constituency and elsewhere that the roads that have been ploughed up and destroyed by lorries coming from the City of Dublin, and from any outside area for the past few years, should not get special consideration. It is a terrible state of affairs to say that these counties should be expected to bear the whole of the cost of restoring those by-roads or county roads to a passable condition. I hope the Minister will bear that in mind and I am sure that the reports of his inspectors, if they have been in those areas, will confirm what I am now asserting.
These turf-cutting counties are in the position now that, not having been able to make use of the grants that were allocated during the emergency period for the reasons I have just given, they are now expected, unless they get the grants suggested by Deputy Flanagan in his motion, to put these roads back into a proper condition of repair at the expense of the local ratepaying community. That is not fair, and the Minister should find ways and means of allocating from whatever funds are at his disposal grants for this purpose. He should regard that as his duty and as an obligation because of the services rendered during the emergency period by these counties in the turf-cutting areas. He should regard it as an obligation to make up now or as soon as possible for the loss of the grants that they were unable to use during the emergency period.
I am probably speaking to the converted when I am mentioning this matter to the Minister but I am hopeful he will make some statement or give some indication that in the immediate future he proposes to provide grants from whatever funds are at his disposal for the purpose of restoring the roads leading into bogs like Clonsast, and into the other big bogs used for turf-cutting purposes for the nation as a whole during the emergency period. I hope he will allocate from whatever funds he has at his disposal reasonable grants to enable those roads to be, not alone restored to their normal condition, but to be maintained at a proper standard for the future. These roads leading into big bogs like Clonsast and Boora, and used by lorries coming from far outside the Counties of Laois and Offaly, are in a shocking, impassable state and are not in a fit condition for the type of lorry that has to be used for carting turf from these areas, not to towns situated in the Counties of Laois and Offaly but to the City of Dublin and to places far away from those big bogs where turf for the nation is being produced.
I do not want to take up any more time in the House. I want to give way to the Minister and I hope in doing so I am going to make it possible for him to give to the County Councils of Laois and Offaly and of other turf-cutting counties some encouragement by way of making some grant available to them in the near future. I hope he will restore those county roads to their normal pre-emergency condition and that he will be able to inform the House, and the country as well, that the bigger question of the future construction and maintenance of the trunk roads will be dealt with as part and parcel of the national transport system.
I do not want to suggest anything that would deprive the county councils of their existing powers because the powers they have at the moment are very limited, but I think there is a good case from a national point of view for having all the trunk and main roads in this country constructed and maintained to a minimum standard. If that could be done instead of leaving the different counties to adopt their own standard of construction and maintenance for the trunk roads running through all the counties, there would be a better national system of roads in this country and a better opportunity of providing full employment on these trunk and main roads for a minimum number of men under reasonable conditions of service.
