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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 11 Dec 1952

Vol. 135 No. 9

Supplementary Estimates 1952-53. - Adjournment Debate—Report of Civil Service Arbitration Board.

I gave notice of my intention to raise on the Adjournment the subject matter of questions which appeared on yesterday's Order Paper. The particular questions related, Sir, to the report of the arbitration board on a claim for increased remuneration by Civil Service staff organisations. I raise the matter to-night in view of the fact that the Dáil is adjourning to-morrow and because the adjournment of the Dáil has a very direct relation to the subject matter of the question.

I would like to make it clear, at the outset, that, in raising this matter, I am concerned only with endeavouring to get the Government to recognise the obvious merits of the issue which was raised in yesterday's questions. The report of the Civil Service Arbitration Board affects thousands of lower-paid grades in the Post Office and in the Civil Service generally, but it affects also thousands of other workers who are employed in the local authority service and who are engaged as industrial employees in the Government service. In addition it affects a great number of employees of semi-State organisations. All these people have been looking forward to receiving increased remuneration under the report of the Civil Service Arbitration Board. They were looking forward to an increase particularly in view of the approach of Christmas and the inevitable higher domestic expenses which are a characteristic feature of Christmas.

I would like briefly to review the position in connection with this matter of Civil Service arbitration. On the 3rd and 4th of last month the Civil Service Arbitration Board met in public and heard a claim for increased remuneration submitted by the staff organisations. Their claim for an increase in pay was argued before the board. The Minister's representatives made a case against the grant of any increase whatever. The board having sat for two days and heard the case for and against an increase, then went into private session, and, according to the Minister's reply yesterday, he received a report from the Civil Service Arbitration Board on the 18th of last month.

The Civil Service scheme of arbitration provides that the report must be disclosed to the Dáil before it is released and if the report is not disclosed to the Dáil before the House adjourns to-morrow, then, presumably, if the terms of the scheme are adhered to there will be no declaration of Government policy in respect of the report of the arbitration tribunal until the House resumes on the 4th February, and there will be no payment of any increases in wages or salaries until after the Dáil has learned the terms of the arbitration tribunal's report. It is because of that fact, that the scheme provided for a disclosure of the report to the Dáil before it was published, that this matter assumes all the more urgent proportions. If the Government persist in withholding the report to the Dáil until the House reassembles in February next, that is another way of postponing the application of the increases until a substantially later date.

The Government has got this report for the past three weeks. Having regard to the lapse of that period of time, it is not unreasonable to ask that the report should now be released and the Government attitude on the report made known. I do not think I am expecting anything unreasonable of the Government in asking them to adopt that course, particularly when we had this declaration of policy from the Tánaiste on the 12th May, 1951, on the subject of arbitration and arbitration awards. The Tánaiste, speaking then, said:—

"It has been suggested also that Fianna Fáil would terminate the arbitration systems which had been set up for civil servants. He did not know if those systems had worked to the satisfaction of public officials. They seemed to have delayed rather than facilitated the adjustment of salary rates. But if the Civil Service organisations were satisfied with them they were quite prepared to allow them to operate unchanged and would give effect to any wage or salary increase resulting from them."

Let me emphasise the last few words. Fianna Fáil would give effect to any wage or salary increase resulting from the hearing of claims before the arbitration board. All I am asking the Government to do in this matter is to give effect, not merely to the report of the tribunal set up to deal with wage claims in the Civil Service but to implement as well the declaration of policy made by the Tánaiste, presumably on behalf of the Government, in May last year.

The lowly-paid staffs have looked forward and are still eagerly looking forward to a declaration of policy on this matter from the Government. They are looking for an early announcement of what increases will be granted to them and when they will secure those increases in order to compensate them for the substantial rise in the cost of living which has taken place for the past 18 months and in particular during the past six months.

Again I come back to a statement made by the Tánaiste on, I think, the 4th of this month at the Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis, in which he said Fianna Fáil deliberately decided to cut the subsidies and to allow prices to reach what he described as a realistic level. He said he recognised then and that the Government recognised that prices would go up consequent upon the slashing of the food subsidies but that they felt that wages could be adjusted to meet the increased level of prices and that the Government was not unprepared to have wages adjusted in order to meet the rise in the cost of living.

I am merely asking the Government now to implement in respect of those whose claims were considered by the Civil Service Arbitration Board the Government's declaration of policy made in May last year and the recent declaration by the Tánaiste as to the necessity for adjustment in wage and salary levels consequent upon the increase in price levels. That policy has been recognised by private employers and by local authorities. It has been recognised by semi-State bodies. The Minister for Local Government has sanctioned increases in wages for employees of local authorities. The Electricity Supply Board has already granted increases to its staffs paid out of State provided moneys. The Government is underwriting Córas Iompair Éireann losses in order to meet increases in wages granted to the staff of Córas Iompair Éireann. Every day in the week we read of awards made by the Labour Court, by a Government-created organisation and with a Government-appointed chairman, all in recognition of the fact that the increase in price levels necessitates an increase in wages in order to enable workers to adjust their living costs.

Surely the Government cannot hope in justice or in equity to remain indifferent to what is happening in the adjustment of wage levels outside and I am concerned in raising this matter especially with the position of the lower paid grades in the Post Office and in the Civil Service generally. I am concerned with the fact that the wages of postmen, telephonists, clerks, part-time postmen, messengers, cleaners, sorters and the engineering staff do not provide them with a margin with which to meet the substantial increase in prices. Persons in the same wage class and in the same salary earning group in private employment, in private State employment and in semi-State employment have already in a great many cases had their remuneration adjusted upwards in order to meet the increase in the cost of living.

On what reasonable grounds can the State claim immunity now from responsibility for increasing the remuneration of State employees? The Government has a way out in this matter, if it is not prepared to announce to the House before it adjourns to-morrow its attitude to the arbitration board award. The arbitration scheme is not a statutory scheme and the Government is not restricted by any statutory inhibitions in the scheme of arbitration now in existence. The present scheme provides that there should be a disclosure of the report to the Dáil before the document is released for general publication. The Government is also bound to tell the Dáil what it proposes to do. But there is, of course, nothing to prevent the Government in agreement with the staff side of the Civil Service Arbitration Board, or the staff side generally, suspending that part of the scheme which provides for disclosure in the first instance so that the Government may be in a position to release the report and to implement whatever increases are provided for in the report without waiting for the House to resume on the 4th February next. No difficulty will be experienced with the staff side if the Government decides to adopt that method of enabling it to deal speedily with the report when the Dáil adjourns.

I want to make one request to the Government. Here is a report of an arbitration tribunal which affects the wage standards of thousands of lowly paid workers who would, if they were employed by private employers, have already got an increase in wages. In all justice the Government cannot withhold the increases from its workers for whose wage standards they are responsible. I put it to the Minister for Finance, to the Government generally and to the Fianna Fáil Party that they should look at this matter in a broad, understanding and sympathetic way. They ought to adopt the decent, the honourable and the honest course, and that course is to release the report to-morrow, announce its provisions to the Dáil and indicate at the same time what action the Government intends to take to give effect to whatever increases are recommended in the report of the arbitration tribunal.

Outside employers have given increases. Local authorities have done so. Semi-State bodies have done so and I cannot understand on what grounds the Government pretends that there is no responsibility on it to do the same, especially in view of the two declarations of policy made by the Tánaiste on the subject.

This is a matter which calls for adjustment by the Government in the same way in which the Labour Court is adjusting claims every day in the week. The Minister will have an opportunity to-morrow to show that, having submitted the case to arbitration and having put forward the strongest case he could against any increase in wages, he is now prepared to take the proper course if the case, notwithstanding all his efforts, has gone against him and an award has been made. In fairness to the staff and in all decency the Government ought to accept the award. Even now I prefer to think that that is the intention of the Government and I hope that the Minister, when concluding, will be able to say that he has secured Government sanction for the publication of the report and that we will have an early declaration of the Minister's and the Government's intention to honour whatever recommendations are contained in the report.

I wonder could the Deputy give us an indication of the time-table of the proceedings. On what date was the arbitration claim heard?

On the 3rd and 4th of November, and the report was presented on the 18th November.

I appreciate what the Minister said in reply to the questions put down by me, by Deputy Cosgrave and by Deputy Norton yesterday that the principle enshrined in all this involves a very grave problem for the Government. The Government has had three weeks, however, in which to consider this problem, and in justice to the many civil servants vitally affected it should now make known what action it proposes to take. It should make known its decision also in justice to the many thousands of other workers whose salary scale will be affected by the Government's action in this matter.

It is quite clear from the Minister's attitude, and I only hope that he will dispel the impression as soon as possible, that he intends to avail of the three months the scheme allows him in which to lay the matter before the House. It looks as if the Government intends to treat that three months as a maximum period and to come into the Dáil on the 18th February next with the report. I sincerely hope that will not be the case and that the Government will to-morrow make known its decision one way or the other.

I believe, like Deputy Norton, that there does appear to be a prima facie case for an increase in the salaries of civil servants and other allied services. Whether the Government intends to give that increase or whether it decides it is not possible to give it, the important thing from the point of view of the many thousands vitally affected is that the decision should be made known one way or the other and the Government should not rely on what is regarded as a maximum period of three months in order to withhold from these people a decision governing all their future prospects.

Mr. O'Higgins

In view of the speech made by the present Tánaiste on the eve of the last general election I think we may assume that the award contained in the report of the arbitrator will be honoured by the Government because, if it is not honoured, there will be a serious breach of faith on the part of the Government in relation to those whom it is intended to benefit by this arbitration scheme. The only question that arises is: Will it be honoured? It would appear from the Minister's reply yesterday that he is seeking to gain time by taking advantage of the miserable three months allowed under the agreement in order to defer payment until the Dáil reassembles in February next. That kind of heel-tapping will not commend itself to the people and I join with other Deputies in urging the Minister not merely to honour his bond in the letter of the law but to honour it also in the spirit of the present Tánaiste's speech on the eve of the last general election.

Nothing exemplifies the protein personality of Deputy Norton so much as the audacity with which he has raised this matter to-night and with which he referred to a statement made by Deputy Lemass on 13th May, 1951, as supporting the case he is now making, to urge the Government to take impetuous and ill-considered decisions in relation to this particular matter. Deputy Lemass, speaking on the 13th May, 1951, said:—

"In regard to the machinery which has been set up by the Government of which Deputy Norton was a member, they seemed to have delayed rather than facilitated the adjustment of the salary scales."

That suggestion was well-founded because this machinery which was set up—a trial period—first began to operate on the 1st November, 1950. It was only over 14 months later—after the boys had been kept talking at the conciliation level—that a disagreement was recorded and it was decided that the matter should go to arbitration. Then, on the 22nd February, 1951, the matter went to arbitration. The report of that arbitration was not forthcoming until more than three months later— the 24th May, 1951. So, for that 18 months, where there was one Christmas intervening—Christmas, 1951——

That is wrong.

——Deputy Norton, who wants to come here before the civil servants in the guise of Father Christmas, waited for these 18 months and did nothing—in the end it was us who had to do it. The arbitration proceedings were carried on and strung out in order to avoid——

On a point of order. These dates given by the Minister and these periods are grotesque. They are just false.

They are not, Sir. I have them here.

They are false.

Eighteen months elapsed before any report emerged and before any conclusion was reached in regard to the whole of these proceedings. How did we deal with the matter this year? The first claim was presented to us in mid-July last. As soon as the matters could be set in order there was a meeting of the Conciliation Council and a disagreement was recorded on the 11th August, 1952. The discussions at conciliation level were not strung out by us for 18 months because we were sincere when we decided that arbitration would be granted.

You abolished the food subsidies.

Five weeks later, on the 24th September, the arbitration claim by the civil servants was presented to us. On the 20th October— less than a month later—a counter-statement was funished by us and the public hearings were held on the 3rd and 4th November. The report was received by us on the 18th November. What has happened in the meantime? This Government has been battling in the Dáil against a continuous policy of obstruction and opposition. During that period what Government could give serious consideration to this matter which affects, not merely the thousands of civil servants but, as I pointed out yesterday, the hundreds of thousands of taxpayers. When we honoured the award of the arbitrator in 1951 we were not able to do it without imposing burdens on the taxpayer. The amount of the award and the consequential grants which followed it amounted to over £3,600,000, approximating to the amount which we saved, if you like, in the reduction of the food subsidies. That is what the last arbitration award cost the taxpayers of this country. When we had to do that, in order to meet that last arbitration award, what thanks and gratitude did we get from Deputy Norton?

I will now quote from column 1541 of the Official Report, Volume 130. During the debate on the general Budget Resolution, Deputy Norton is reported at that column. He said that we were imposing on the people

"the toughest Budget yet experienced in their history, because this is the toughest Budget the Dáil has ever seen. It is the toughest Budget the people have ever had to experience."

Deputies

Hear, hear!

And what helped to make that Budget tough?

The Minister's speech.

The £3,600,000 which, as a consequence of the last arbitration award, we had to ask the taxpayers to raise. The Deputy who made that speech and who knew that to the extent of £3,600,000 he and his Government were responsible for it, comes here to-night and tries to impel the Government, without having had time to consider the award, without giving due consideration to it, to announce a decision in the matter. I have been accused by Deputy O'Higgins of breaking faith with the civil servants in regard to this matter. What was my attitude when I met the civil servants? I am now going to quote from the report of the discussions which I had with the staff assosiations and which was printed in the April number of the Civil Service Review of this year. Here is what I did say, as is reported in that journal:—

"The Minister, in dealing with the Exchequer protection clause, said that a very difficult situation had been created during the trial year by the general pay finding and the consequences of this finding were lamentable from the point of view of the public finances. The Minister for Finance would, for the future, have to be in a position to determine whether he could accept such an arbitration finding in the current year or not. The Minister might not have the money available to meet the finding and it would be most undesirable that he should be called upon to go into debt in order to pay the increases."

The Minister has money for the transatlantic airlines.

Paragraph 25 of the report reads:—

"The Minister said that the last arbitration finding had had to be met, as a temporary arrangement, through borrowings. He could not guarantee——

I was speaking in March, before the introduction of the Budget.

——that there would not be a public outcry when, following the forthcoming Budget, it became necessary to meet it by other means."

We had to meet the result of that arbitration award out of taxation this year and we will have to meet any decision which we will come to in regard to the new award which is presented to us out of taxation next year. Because I am going to deal providently and prudently in regard to public finances I am going to make quite certain that this award and all the consequences that will flow from it will be carefully considered before I make any recommendation to the Government in regard to it and before the award is presented to the Dáil with the decision of the Government in relation to it. That is the position. We have to consider not merely the thousands, as Deputy Norton has said, of public officials and public employees who may be affected by this award but its reactions on the public finances as well. That is the principle on which the scheme is founded.

Lowly paid.

The Government have the fundamental duty of considering the interests of the general body of taxpayers of this country, of the community as a whole, and of deciding for ourselves whether trade and industry and, in particular, agriculture, will be able to shoulder the burdens which the arbitrator's award might impose upon them. That is the duty which is laid upon us by the very terms of the scheme. I intend to honour and discharge that duty. I regret to say that that is not a duty which was accepted and honoured by my predecessors. On the contrary, when they knew this award was forthcoming, and what the results of it were likely to be—following the headline set by the then Minister for Health, the then Minister for Social Welfare and the then Minister for Local Government— what did they do? Instead of coming and presenting that award to the Dáil, instead of remaining in office and having their Budget discussed in the light of that award, when the Dáil would be able to see what provision had been made by our predecessors to meet the commitments in regard to it, which undoubtedly would arise in that year —they precipitately dissolved the Dáil in order that they might be relieved of their obligations to civil servants in that regard.

Give it to Western Seaboards, Ltd.

The Dáil adjourned at 11.10 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on the 12th December, 1952.

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