Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 18 Feb 1953

Vol. 136 No. 8

Committee on Finance. - Vote 47—Lands.

Tairgim:—

Go ndeonfar suim fhorlíontach nach mó na £63,000 chun íochtha an Mhuirir a thiocfas chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31ú lá de Mhárta, 1953, chun Tuarastal agus Costas Oifig an Aire Tailte agus Oifig Choimisiún Talún na hÉireann (44 & 45 Vict., c. 49, alt 46, agus c. 71, alt 4; 48 & 49 Vict, c. 73, ailt 17, 18 agus 20; 54 & 55 Vict., c. 48; 3 Edw. 7, c. 37; 7 Edw. 7, c. 38 agus c. 56; 9 Edw. 7, c. 42; Uimh. 27 agus 42 de 1923; Uimh. 25 de 1925; Uimh. 11 de 1926; Uimh. 19 de 1927; Uimh. 31 de 1929;Uimh. 11 de 1931; Uimh. 33 agus 38 de 1933; Uimh. 11 de 1934; Uimh. 41 de 1936; Uimh. 26 de 1939; Uimh. 12 de 1946; Uimh 25 de 1949; agus Uimh. 16 de 1950).

Sé príomh-chuspóir an Mheastacháin Fhorlíonta seo ná £80,000 sa bhreis a chur a fáil i gcóir oibreacha feabhsúcháin de chuid Choimisiún na Talún, ach tá £7,495 ag teastáil freisin faoi mhírcheanna eile. Níl ach £63,000 le deonadh, áfach, toise go bhfuil méadú ar leithreasa i gcabhair agus laghdú ar chaiteachas faoi mhírcheanna eile— go h-áirithe mírcheann A (Tuarastail agus Páighe agus Liúntaisí).

The main purpose of this Supplementary Estimate is to provide a further sum of £80,000 for Land Commission improvement works, but amounts totalling £7,495 are also needed for other purposes. The additional requirements are offset to the extent of £24,495 by increased Appropriations-in-Aid and estimated savings on other sub-heads—mainly sub-head A (salaries, etc.)—leaving £63,000 to be voted.

The smaller items do not call for much explanation. Travelling and subsistence allowances have recently been increased. Legal expenses have risen as a result of greater activity in proceedings for acquisition of land. I may say that proceedings are arising out of the changes made following the passage of the 1950 Land Act. Deficiencies occur when State claims are met in land bonds at their full nominal value and the bonds are sold at a discount. Incidentally, I might mention that the Land (No.2) Bill, 1952, which I hope to have circulated shortly, will contain provisions aimed at securing that future series of land bonds will remain at or near par for a reasonable time after their creation.

As regards improvement works, the revised estimate of expenditure this year reaches the high level of £560,000. These works provide a substantial amount of employment and the rates of wages, which have been rising during the year, are the same as those paid by the county councils to their road workers. It is the policy of the Government to expedite the relief of congestion and good progress is being made. Increasing attention is beingdevoted to migration from and rearrangement in the congested districts and these activities necessarily entail heavy expenditure on improvements, particularly on buildings. Prices tendered by contractors have advanced substantially. It is hoped to have some 250 dwellinghouses and 300 outoffices completed this year; the corresponding figures last year were 150 dwellinghouses and 160 outoffices.

Last year holdings were provided for 75 migrants; that figure is expected to be more than doubled in the current year. A substantial increase in the number of holdings rearranged is also anticipated. It is estimated that some 28,000 acres of land will be acquired during the year and that the area allotted will exceed 25,000 acres.

Deputies are well aware of the importance of land settlement operations, especially in the congested districts, and I have no hesitation in seeking their support for this Estimate which will enable progress to be maintained for the remainder of the financial year.

I should like to have fuller details from the Minister with regard to the bulk sum that he is looking for in this Supplementary Estimate. With regard to sub-head I—Improvement of Estates—under which an additional sum of £80,000 is required, I should like to know from the Minister whether that is due to an increase in building costs during the last 12 months. I refer to that sub-head in particular because it is there we find the principal increase in this Supplementary Estimate. Can the Minister tell me whether it is due to an increase in the cost of building or to an increase in the number of houses actually under construction? If the Estimate is necessary to meet an increase in the cost of building, then I should like to mention that about two years ago the cost of building the average standard house was given in this House at about £990, or roughly £1,000. If the Minister has the figures at hand, I should like to know from him whether there has been an increase there and, if so, by how much?

The Minister gave some figures with regard to the total number of holdings. I think that very good work is indicated there. On that point, I hope that the Minister is of a different opinion now from what he was in the first year of the inter-Party Government when I foreshadowed some finality to the work of the Land Commission in dealing with resettlement and the relief of congestion. When I dealt with the congestion at that time the Minister, sitting on these benches, expressed some rather gloomy views with regard to seeing any finality to that question. I am glad to see that the work which I commenced in 1948 is going ahead and is beginning to show good results already.

The Minister said that the acreage to be acquired or resumed this year would be 28,000 acres. I wonder could he give me a breakdown of that figure, and tell me how much of that land will be available for the creation of new holdings, the approximate amount that will be used up for rearrangement, and whether any sizable part of the total will be unsuitable for Land Commission purposes and can be utilised for forestry?

As regards sub-head K—Deficiencies on Realisation by Government Departments of Land Bonds—I should like the Minister to be more explicit on that by telling me how the deficiencies have arisen, or in what particular case, that is, if, to give the information, would not lead him into too great a mass of detail. If it does, then we can leave the question over until the main Estimate comes before the House.

The Minister mentioned the solicitor's branch. Incidentally, the expenses under that sub-head have increased by a pretty considerable amount. I cannot quite follow that, although I thought I was pretty conversant with the work in that particular branch of the Land Commission. The Minister has not done anything by his statement to clarify the situation for my dense head. I fail to see, however, why an additional sum of £3,500 should be required now, in view of the fact that we had the main Estimate before us only nine months ago. The figure under that sub-head used to be a pretty stable figure.

Mr. O'Higgins

The Deputy in his time brought in a new Act.

I did, and I admit that that may be responsible for a certain amount of the increase. Still, I fail to see how that Act could be responsible for this additional sum of £3,500. My principal concern is to get information from the Minister on sub-head I, to which I referred in the opening part of my statement.

Mr. O'Higgins

This is the second time to-day that, in a rather surprising manner, the very foolish financial policy of this Government has been demonstrated. Part of the sum that is now asked for in this Supplementary Estimate is required to make good the fall in recent months in the values of one of the securities of this State— Irish Land Bonds.

That depreciation in the value of land bonds took place, as in the case of other securities, because the Government, through the Minister for Finance, put on the market in competition with land bonds a security at a very high rate of interest. Accordingly, the value of land bonds depreciated substantially.

That is a very serious consideration because it has meant that many people who receive in land bonds payment for lands acquired from them are being paid merely in so many figures written on a sheet of notepaper. The real market value of the bonds which they get, is substantially less than the compensation payable to them. The necessity for this Estimate illustrates the considerable, widespread harm which has been done by the very irresponsible financial policy which has been pursued by this Government in recent months.

I hope that the Bill which the Minister referred to and which it is now necessary to introduce, which is designed to give some parity in value to land bonds, will be introduced as speedily as possible because it is a serious thing if the State, by its own action, proceeds to depress the value of its own securities. That causes considerable lack of confidence on the part of the people in the fiscal policy of the State and may undoubtedly cause considerable harm.

I think the Estimate will be agreed by the House. I would like to know from the Minister if he has available to him information on the number of purchases made by the Land Commission under the very excellent provision contained in the last Land Act, which was introduced by Deputy Blowick as Minister.

I hope that the increase in the solicitors' department of the Land Commission indicates that there has been a pretty considerable use of the voluntary purchase power now residing in the Land Commission. I trust that very valuable power has not been overlooked by the Land Commission and that they have made use of it.

I do not think that there is anything else that it is necessary to mention. The Estimate itself will be accepted. I agree with the matters which have already been urged by Deputy Blowick with regard to the Estimate.

The cost of buildings is estimated to have increased by between 5 and 10 per cent. during the year and, in addition, as I stated, we have plans for fixing-up 150 migrants from the West of Ireland in the Midland area as against 75 last year. There will be 250 new houses, all told, completed as compared with roughly 150 last year. I think that is to a greater degree responsible for the increase than the actual increase in the cost of building.

Of course, wages have also increased. The average minimum rate of wages in January, 1947 was 44/-; in May, 1947, 50/-; March, 1948, 55/-; January, 1949, 58/4. Since last year increases have taken place. In Galway there has been an increase from 72/- to 80/-; Mayo remains at the old figure of 80/-. In Roscommon there has been an increase from 75/- to 80/-; in Sligo, from 68/- to 80/-; in Clare, from 72/6 to 82/6; in Cork, from 72/- to 80/-; in Kerry, from 74/- to 85/-. There are the main counties in the West of Ireland in which work is being carried on. There have been increases also in Meath from 78/- to 82/6; in Kildare, from 80/- to 85/-; in Dublin from 95/-to 105/-.

As regards the breaking up of the 28,000 acres, I am afraid I cannot gointo that on the Supplementary Estimate. I have not the information readily available as to the proportion of that which would go by way of providing holdings for migrants but I think I can assure Deputy Blowick that practically all the activity of the Land Commission is concerned with the relief on congestion at the present time and in trying to provide additional land by resumption proceedings for re-arrangement schemes.

The amount of land taken for forestry worked out last year at about 5 per cent. Roughly, about 1,200 acres of the land acquired by the Land Commission went for forestry purposes. If the commissioners find that the land is unsuitable for their purposes, not being good arable land capable of being laid out in the way that suits their policy, or if they find that they have had to take over an area of old woodland, they may decide to transfer the portion which they do not require to the forestry branch.

There is an item in respect of deficiencies by reason of the redemption of Government charges by the transfer of bonds at the face value of the bonds as against the market value. Deputy O'Higgins referred to another provision for loss on realisation. I cannot see that the fact that there has been a fall in the market value of land bonds is proof of any failure as far as the Government's financial policy is concerned. The recent national loan is standing at a very high figure and if that loan is securing the approbation of the investing public in the country the good effects of that position are bound to spread to the other stocks. The real point is that if the investing public is satisfied that the country is prosperous and that our affairs are in good order, particularly our finances, our stocks are more likely to approach their face value on the market than would otherwise be the case.

As regards the law charges, Deputy Blowick wished to know what the position is in that regard. In 1948-49, the expenditure was £2,439; 1949-50, £4,287; 1950-51, £4,055. The estimate of £6,500 was prepared for sub-head E in November, 1951, in the light ofestimated expenditure; £4,500 was for 1951-52, but, in fact, the expenditure amounted to £6,060. The estimate of £2,400 for 1952-53 was framed on the basis of owners' and tenants' costs in cases before the Appeal Tribunal, but there was an exceptionally high number of payments in the current year arising from the disposal of price appeal cases which accumulated after the passing of the Land Act of 1950. The price appeals heard in 1951-52 numbered 111 against 15 in 1950-51.

It is difficult to estimate in advance in any particular year what these law charges for resumption cases will be. They do not mature for payment until the costs have been submitted by the tenants' solicitors and have been examined, so that the figure which it was assumed would cover the owners' and tenants' costs in cases before the Appeal Tribunal of £2,400 has already risen to £4,500 in 188 price appeal and resumption cases. The corresponding figure for the whole of last year was approximately £1,500 in 71 cases, so that there has been a very big increase in the costs of cases, due partly to the increased number of appeals in resumption cases as compared with the previous year, and also to the fact that costs came in during the year which might have applied, as I understand it, to the preceding year.

We also had exceptional costs in cases before the High Court and the Supreme Court. The estimate was £1,000, but the costs awarded against the Land Commission in a single case amounted to £1,430, which have been discharged this year. Fees for counsel retained by the Land Commission were estimated at £800. The fees have already amounted to £1,300 and have been paid. I do not know whether I have given sufficient explanation of the increases. The increases, anyway, came under these three heads: owners' and tenants' costs in cases before the Appeal Tribunal, exceptional costs before the High Court and Supreme Court, and fees to counsel retained by the Land Commission.

The Minister mentioned 150 houses for migrants and 250 houses completed by the end of the financial year. Could these houses bedescribed as rearrangement houses, not migrants' houses?

Yes, rearrangement houses.

Vote put and agreed to.
Barr
Roinn