asked the Minister for Finance if he will state in respect of State or semi-State concerns other than companies incorporated under the Companies Acts (a) the name of the concern, (b) the amount invested by the State in each concern, (c) the surplus or deficit incurred in each of the last four years by each concern, and (d) the amount received by the Exchequer by way of interest or return in each of the last four years from each concern.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - State and Semi-State Concerns.
I assume the Deputy refers to statutory corporations which carry on commercial activities and which are financed in whole or in part by the State. These corporations are: the E.S.B., Bord na Móna, C.I.E., An Bord Iascaigh Mhara, and the Great Northern Railway Board. In all cases the preparation of annual accounts and their presentation to Dáil Éireann are required by statute. So far as it is available the information requested by the Deputy in regard to State financing, profits or losses and return to the Exchequer is given in these accounts. The first accounts of An Bord Iascaigh Mhara, which was established in April, 1952, will be presented shortly. The Great Northern Railway Board which has a capital liability of £2,250,000 to the Minister for Industry and Commerce in respect of the compensation paid by him on the transfer of the assets of the Great Northern Railway Company, was established as recently as the 1st September, 1953.
I did not ask for the information the Minister has given me. I asked for information in respect of State or semi-State concerns other than companies incorporated under the Companies Acts. I got the information in respect of companies incorporated under the Companies Acts about a fortnight ago. I have in mind concerns such as the Dairy Disposals Board and other such organisations in connection with which State money is involved. I want to get informationin regard to the amount of money invested by the State in all those bodies. The Minister has not given me that information.
If the Deputy studies the reply, he will find that it is useful not only to him but to other Deputies who may seek the same information as he is seeking now. The Deputy will find in these accounts the particulars he requests. Not only will he himself and younger Deputies be able to do that on this occasion but they will be able to follow the directions to get similar information in future.
Is the Minister sure he knows what he is talking about?
The Minister is not giving me the information I asked for in the question. I got the information he has now given me three weeks ago.
A practice has grown up that if you ask for particulars of this kind you are referred to the accounts. We could all go to the Librarian of Oireachtas Éireann and he would tell us that. The Minister has a staff which at least, in a secondary sense, is designed to help Oireachtas members to get the information they want. An experienced civil servant can collate that kind of information in an hour and it might take a Deputy, no matter how experienced, with the assistance of the Librarian, two days to get it. Is it unreasonable to ask the Minister to help us to the extent of getting an experienced civil servant to collate information of that kind in readily accessible form?
I think it is right that civil servants should help Deputies in their reasonable requirements but it can go to a ridiculous extent. We are asked to repeat in the Parliamentary Reports information that is already published and printed in handy form and is in the Library. It is sometimes circulated to all Deputies. I do not think we should take up the time of valuable civil servants in repeating work that has already been done and better set out than could ever be amere synopsis given in a parliamentary question. Also I do not think it is right to ask the Exchequer to spend money on repetition of that kind.
May I ask a question?
I cannot allow a debate on this matter at this juncture.
May I ask a question? We are poor creatures representing the people and civil servants are very valuable persons but, bearing that in mind, surely our wretched insignificance and unimportant time has some value?
That is more like an argument than a question.
Will the Minister say whether by any chance he had a look at the balance sheet of Mianraí Teoranta for 31st March, 1953? How could he expect a Deputy to examine that and understand some of the intricate matters therein?
I want to tell the Minister that I went to the Library and could not find the information there in respect of the organisations in which State funds are invested. I asked in this House for information in respect of State or semi-State concerns other than companies incorporated under the Companies Acts. When I asked the question from the Minister for Finance the last time he said he assumed that the Deputy was asking for information in respect of concerns incorporated under the Companies Acts. To-day the Minister for External Affairs has given me the same answer.
The Deputy may be mixing up the matter. I understand from a reliable authority that the Deputy will have a question on the Order Paper to-morrow which will give him more information and when he reads the two answers together he will get all the information he needs.
Live horse and you will get grass.
Live until to-morrow.