asked the Minister for Agriculture if he will state the number of plants engaged in the dead-meat trade at present (a) working full time, (b) working at less than 50 per cent. capacity, (c) working at less than 25 per cent. capacity, (d) not in production, and (e) the total number of persons employed on such plants in the week ending the 31st October, 1953.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Dead-Meat Trade.
Mr. Walsh
The particulars asked for by the Deputy are not available. I would refer the Deputy to my general statement in reply to other questions to-day on the present position of the carcase meat export trade.
What are those statements, would the Minister say?
Mr. Walsh
One statement has been given in reply to questions to-day, but I will be giving you another one later on.
Is it the statement that is to come that the Minister is referring to?
Mr. Walsh
In connection with Question No. 109, which deals with factories working at less than 50 percent. capacity. We have no means of finding out what those other factories are engaged in.
Has the Minister any information on the subject that would give some idea of the extent to which these factories are working at present?
Mr. Walsh
Yes.
asked the Minister for Agriculture if he is aware that the majority of the dead-meat plants engaged in the killing, dressing and processing of meat for export have not been in production for some time now, and that, as a result, a very large number of persons have been disemployed; and, if so, if he will indicate what steps the Government are taking to bring about a revival of the trade and thus safeguard this very valuable trade from the point of view of the national economy and secure the re-employment of the large numbers of persons thrown idle by the present recession in the trade.
asked the Minister for Agriculture if he will state whether he has taken any steps in the past week, or is about to do so, by way of advice and action to improve the position of the dead-meat trade; further, if he will state whether many of the 40 packing plants in the country are idle, and how much unemployment exists in the industry; if it is expected that the industry may be restored before Christmas, and if he has had a conference of all interests concerned with a view to effecting an improvement.
Mr. Walsh
I propose, with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, to reply to Questions Nos. 110 and 111 together.
I am aware that, during the past six weeks or so, there was a recession in carcase beef exports, though not in meat exports generally. I am also aware that in the first three months of the present season, that is, July to September, 1953, inclusive, exports of carcase beef, namely, 112,000 cwt. were nearly double the figure for the corresponding period of 1952: that exportsof carcase mutton and lamb, namely, 28,500 cwt. were also nearly twice the quantity sent out in 1952; that dressed pork exports jumped from 36,000 cwt. to 127,000 cwt., and that there was also a large increase in bacon shipments.
I think it well to mention these facts so that the general position will not be misunderstood, and not in any way for the purpose of minimising the very recent reduction in beef exports. That reduction which applied even more to fat cattle shipments seems to have been related to exceptional conditions in the store cattle trade. The remarkably mild and open weather and the plentiful supplies of grass and feeding stuffs generally appear to have brought about a very keen demand for stores, which pushed prices for such animals to unusually high—and probably uneconomic—levels for the time being. There is no good reason for thinking that this factor is anything but temporary and indeed beef exports to Britain are already showing some signs of recovery. The whole position has been discussed with the Irish Flesh Meat Exporters' Committee and is being kept under careful review. I think we shall have to await developments in the near future before we can assess the position further.
Did I understand the Minister correctly to say that the price of store cattle was at present too high?
Mr. Walsh
I said that the price of store cattle for this time of the year is abnormally high.
Did the Minister say that he thought the price was probably uneconomic?
Mr. Walsh
Yes, uneconomic from the point of view of fats.
And the factories and the packing trade?
Mr. Walsh
Yes.
I take it that the Minister is aware of the fact that large numbers of workers who are employed in these dressed meat factories are now standing off and that for many of them the prospect of re-employment is prettybleak, that they have been told so by their employers? Are we to deduce from what the Minister has said that the prospect is that there will be a sufficient spurt in the dressed meat trade in beef in the near future to result in the re-employment of those persons?
Mr. Walsh
I think that the present trend in the price of store cattle will correct itself. Actually in the Dublin market to-day the price of store cattle dropped.
asked the Minister for Agriculture if he is aware that a very large plant in Dublin which was established for carrying on the dead-meat export trade has been completely closed down for nearly two months with the consequential disemployment of a large number of workers; and, if so, if he is in a position to indicate the reasons for such cessation of operations, and whether it is expected that the plant will resume production in the near future.
Mr. Walsh
I am aware that the plant referred to has not been operating for the past two months.
The second part of the question relates to the internal affairs of a private firm and I am not at liberty to discuss these.
Is the Minister aware of the fact that a very substantial sum of money was sunk in this particular plant, that more than 150 persons were employed in this plant about three months ago, that those have all been paid off, and the stated reason, so far as the workers there are concerned, is the same reason as that which has already closed down or substantially curtailed the activities of other dressed meat plants in the country? There might be some other internal difficulties in this particular instance, but the general problem is stated to be related to the same kind of difficulties as have closed other meat packing plants.
Mr. Walsh
I would remind the Deputy that, a year and a half ago, I said that too many people were tryingto engage in this particular trade and the raw material was not there for them, and that consequently some people were going to have their fingers burned. I said that repeatedly over the past year and a half. Notwithstanding that statement, there are people still anxious to go into the dead-meat trade.
Is it not a fact that those people got licences to operate from the Department of Agriculture, and got licences at a time when the Department, if it had its eyes open and its ears cocked to the realities, should have realised that there was not a living for all who were seeking licences?
Mr. Walsh
We prohibit nobody from doing business in this country. We pointed out the difficulties that were there and the dangers that were there, but at the same time we were placing no prohibition on anybody's activities.
Now you cannot prohibit them from going into bankruptcy.
I understand that, before the cessation of rationing in Britain, meetings will take place between officers of the Minister's Department and opposite numbers in Britain. Will the Minister see to it that any agreement reached will be such that the carcase meat industry in this country will be put on a sound footing?
Mr. Walsh
We can give no guarantees about the result of talks that may take place in future. It has been the policy of this Government, and you have the proof of it over the past two years, to build up the dressed meat trade.
There is no proposal here to restrict the exports of live stock from this country? Would that be correct?
Mr. Walsh
Whoever made that suggestion?
The Minister did.
The Ministerhas referred to the unavailability of raw materials affecting the present situation in relation to the dressed meat trade. Would he tell us what part did the action of his predecessor, Mr. Smith, when Minister, in slaughtering 147,000 calves play——
I am afraid the calves slaughtered in 1934 would not be of much benefit to the factories to-day.
Their survival in 1947 would provide the factories with raw material—and in 1948, 1949, 1950 and 1951.
It would be no harm if they slaughtered the Minister.
asked the Minister for Agriculture if he will state the price per lb. paid by the British Ministry of Food for carcase meat shipped c.i.f. from Dublin, and if he considers the differential represented by this price and the price of beef on the hoof is adequate to permit the Irish dead meat trade economically to engage in the export of carcase meat to Great Britain.
Mr. Walsh
I am sending the Deputy a copy of the current schedule of prices receivable for carcase beef exported to the British Ministry of Food, which, of course, vary seasonally and by grade.
I consider that there is nothing unfavourable to the carcase meat trade in the differential between the carcase beef prices and the prices paid by the Ministry of Food for our fat cattle;this is demonstrated by the respective trends in exports of carcase beef and fat cattle to Britain.