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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 27 Oct 1954

Vol. 147 No. 1

Red Cross Bill, 1954—Second Stage.

I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time. The main purpose of the Bill is to enable, so far as this country is concerned, effect to be given to and advantage taken of certain provisions of the following Geneva Conventions signed on behalf of Ireland on the 19th December, 1949—

(1) Geneva Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field;

(2) Geneva Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea;

(3) Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War;

(4) Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War.

The first and third mentioned conventions replace the Geneva Conventions of 1929 regarding respectively the relief of the wounded and sick in armies in the field and the treatment of prisoners of war, and bring them up-to-date to meet modern requirements. The second mentioned convention replaces the Tenth Hague Convention of 1907 for the adaptation to maritime warfare of the principles of the Geneva Red Cross Convention of 1906. The fourth mentioned convention is an entirely new convention.

The Geneva Conventions of 1949 have not yet been ratified. It is considered desirable that, before ratification, the necessary domestic legislation to give effect to the conventions should be enacted. The present Bill is the first of the measures which will be necessary for that purpose.

As the House is aware, the Red Cross Act, 1938, was enacted to give effect to and take advantage of certain provisions of the Geneva Conventions of 1929 and provided for the establishment and incorporation in Ireland of a Red Cross Society. The Irish Red Cross Society was established by an Order made by the Government under that Act.

The Geneva Conventions of 1929 generally referred to "armies" which was a narrow term applying to the armed forces proper. The 1949 Conventions refer to "armed forces" and set out various categories of persons, in addition to armed forces proper, who are entitled to the benefits of the conventions. Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civil members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents and supply contractors are, for example, entitled to the benefits of the 1949 conventions provided they have received authorisation from the armed forces they accompany.

In Section 4 of the Bill, which sets out the primary objects of the Irish Red Cross Society, the expression "armed forces" within the meaning of the 1949 Conventions replaces, therefore, the term "armies" in Section 1 of the 1938 Act. The expression "prisoners of war" in the section has likewise the same extended meaning covering all those who come under the classification of "armed forces". As I have said, the Geneva Convention relative to the protection of civilian persons in time of war is an entirely new convention. For the purpose of that convention a new primary object, namely, the furnishing of relief to civilians who are protected persons within the meaning of the convention, is added in Section 4 to the primary objects of the Irish Red Cross Society. Protected persons are defined in the convention as covering those who, at a given moment and in any manner whatsoever, find themselves, in the case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of a party to the conflict or occupying power of which they are not nationals.

Advantage is being taken of the present opportunity to amend the Act of 1938 so as to authorise the Irish Red Cross Society to engage in any activities of a humanitarian character which are considered suitable and to make, at its discretion, charges therefor. It was held in a High Court judgment some years ago that the powers conferred by the 1938 Act did not entitle the society to hire out ambulances. The peace-time activities of the society include the maintenance of an ambulance service for training purposes on the grounds that the most satisfactory and most thorough training in ambulance service work can be obtained only by actually operating such a service for the carriage of patients. The funds and commitments of the Society are such, however, as to preclude it from operating such a service free of charge to the extent which adequate training demands. In a number of countries a charge is made for the use of Red Cross ambulances in peace-time and, in the opinion of the International Red Cross Committee, the hiring of material by a National Red Cross Society would not be in any way incompatible with the Red Cross spirit and the Geneva Conventions. The deficiency in the matter in the 1938 Act is, accordingly, being rectified in Section 5 of the Bill. The reference to a preventorium in the section is intended to remove any possible doubt that the society will have power to continue the great work which it has being carrying on for some years in the Children's Hospitals at Ballyroan, County Dublin, and Montenotte, Cork, for the prevention of tuberculosis.

Any activities of the society under Section 5 which may bring it into competition with private enterprise, will, however, be circumscribed under Section 6 which empowers the Minister for Defence to regulate and control such activities.

It is necessary that the Government should be empowered:—(a) for the purposes of Article 26 of the wounded and sick convention to authorise voluntary aid societies (including the Irish Red Cross Society) to render assistance to the Army Medical Corps; (b) for the purposes of Article 27 of the same convention to consent to a recognised society of this country, when neutral, assisting a belligerent; and (c) for the purposes of Article 24 of the maritime convention commissioning hospital ships which might be used by the society. These matters are provided for in Section 7.

Under Section 4 of the Act of 1938, the emblem of the red cross on a white ground cannot be used for trade or other purposes without the consent of the Minister for Defence. The wounded and sick convention requires that the emblems of the red crescent on a white ground, used by Turkey and other countries, and the red lion and sun on a white ground used by Iran as the emblems and distinctive design of the medical services of their armed forces, should be placed on the same footing as the Red Cross emblem. The prohibition of the use of the emblems of the red crescent and the red lion and sun will not, however, affect any rights acquired through their use prior to the enactment of the present Bill. Section 8 of the Bill covers these requirements.

Section 9 which relates to the use of the Arms of the Swiss Confederation revises the provisions in that respect in the 1938 Act so as to bring them into line with the terms of the wounded and sick convention. The 1938 Act, in pursuance of a reservation by this and other countries to the 1929 Convention, preserved the rights of proprietors of trade marks registered before the 13th June, 1931, and containing the Swiss Arms. The 1949 Convention was not the subject of such a reservation on the part of any country. Section 9, accordingly, repeals the 1938 Act provision in that respect.

That I think fairly well explains the provisions of the Bill and I am sure that Deputies will find little trouble in disposing of the measure. In concluding, however, I would like to pay a tribute to the Irish Red Cross Society which is, in a very real and effective way, carrying on its humanitarian activities in accordance with the high principles and tradition of the International Red Cross.

Generally speaking, I think it can be said that the main portions of this Bill are contained in Sections 3 and 7. Section 3, as the Minister has outlined, deals with conventions which were drawn up in December, 1949, and Section 7 provides for the authorisation by the Government of certain Articles referred to in Section 7. I would be inclined to say that, on the whole, this is not a measure which can in any respect be regarded as controversial and I personally do not anticipate anything in the nature of a delay in its passing.

Paragraph (b) of sub-section (2) contains the references mentioned by the Minister, that is, authority to provide an ambulance service and to make at the discretion of the society, charges with respect to persons availing themselves of the ambulance service. I think Section 6 qualifies that and makes it clear that, where the Minister for Defence is of opinion that the activities of the society bring the society into competition with private enterprise, he can refuse to give certain directions.

That is the only portion of this Bill which might have caused controversy were it not for the fact that it is qualified by Section 6. We do not want the State or any semi-State organisation to go into competition with private enterprise but I am fully conscious of the fact that there can be certain circumstances in which it would be necessary for the State to come to the rescue of certain people. In those circumstances the State or the semi-State organisation would be fully entitled to come in and operate in that particular phase.

I can also see the desirability of Section 8 but the possibility of any members of the Irish public wanting to use either of these particular heraldic emblems is, I think, a bit remote. I presume that is put in to ensure that in no circumstances can any private concern utilise either of these emblems which, again, I presume are the emblems of foreign nations pretty far removed from this nation.

The necessity for Section 9 is also clear. The heraldic sign of the Swiss Red Cross must, of course, be protected in every possible way. There is one thing that the Bill does. It gives those of us who have any knowledge whatever of the activities of the Red Cross an opportunity of offering them not alone our sincere congratulations on the work which they have undertaken over the years but of expressing our sincere thanks for the voluntary efforts they have made over all these years. I think the Irish Red Cross organisation and the Civic Defence organisation are the only two remaining emergency organisations which are still operating.

I wish it were possible for the Irish public to realise the desirability as well as the necessity of being members of an organisation such as the Irish Red Cross organisation. It gives me great pleasure to avail of this opportunity to offer my sincere congratulations to the Irish Red Cross Society, its chairman, its executives and its various members throughout the country for their work.

There is just one point I want to bring to the Minister's notice and that is the matter of Red Cross branches along the Border. Take, for instance, the branch in Lifford, County Donegal, which is right up against the Border. I understand that legally members of the Red Cross in any such branches are not allowed to cross the Border in uniform even on business connected with the Red Cross organisation. For instance, if a person from over the Border is injured in the Twenty-Six Counties and is being dealt with by members of the Red Cross here they are not allowed to convey that person by ambulance to a hospital or to his home on the other side of the Border as long as they remain in uniform. We, on the other hand, give every facility to members of the Red Cross branches in the Six Counties to enter the Twenty-Six County area in uniform I do not know if the Minister can do anything about that in this Bill but it is a matter which would need to be remedied. I wonder whether the Minister would approach the authorities on the other side to see that our people would be allowed in connection with functions or accident cases to cross to the towns over the Border. I think it would be a very good thing and it would help to make the name of the Irish Red Cross Society a real one.

I have only a few words to say on this Bill. As a member of the Red Cross executive, I have much pleasure in welcoming this measure. The Bill itself brings the Red Cross Society in Ireland into conformity with the Geneva Convention. Throughout the years the Red Cross Society has been in existence here it has more than justified its existence both nationally and internationally.

In case there might be any misunderstanding it is not, as the Minister explained, the intention of the society to go into competition with private enterprise. All the society want is to be free. A decision was given against them in the courts and we had no protection in regard to ambulances travelling long journeys. That was a very big draw on the resources of branches in the country. For example, in the County Dublin we have four ambulances and it was a big strain on the society to keep the ambulances going but under Section 5 of the Bill we have permission to accept a gratuity. We are not entering into competition with any private enterprise whatever. I am grateful to the Minister for introducing this measure and clearing the air. We are a voluntary organisation. We will remain a voluntary organisation and will always depend on the support we receive from the public and the Department of Defence. With these few remarks I welcome this Bill.

I am glad that the Bill has been received so well. The points raised by Deputy Traynor are, of course, very important. On the question of hiring ambulances, I intend, subject to consultation with the society, to issue directions along the following lines regarding the hiring of ambulances. In order to avoid any possibility of complaints of unfair competition, the scale of charges for the society's ambulances will not be lower than the comparable rates for commercial ambulances. In accordance, however, with the humanitarian principles which govern all the society's activities the ambulances will continue as at present to be used free of charge in cases in which the circumstances of the patient preclude his paying the full charge. I will see to it, and I am sure my successor will see to it that that conflict will not arise.

On the question of the protection of emblems—the provisions are being made in order to conform with the convention. The convention lays that down, and we must make that part of our domestic law as it will be part of the domestic law relating to other countries as well. I may say that a large number of countries have ratified the convention and a small number have not. We are amongst the small number that has not, because we propose to do this sort of work first. We think it is the best method. You will have at least two or three other Bills of this nature in a short time for the purpose of enabling us to ratify the convention.

I do not know what the situation is about the Border, but I think it is a matter we need not bother about. The Red Cross is for rendering aid and succour to those in need of it, and we know there is a Red Cross at the other side as well as this one, and humanitarian efforts can apply equally on either side. The question of uniforms is, I suppose, a matter of courtesy arrangement, but if we extend it, and the others do not, we cannot help it. I do not think there is any suggestion that we should withdraw it because of that.

It may be only necessary to draw the opposite side's attention to that.

Deputy Cunningham may have done a good job, and I will not make it any more difficult than that.

I am glad that Deputy Burke agrees with me that there is no necessity for the Red Cross to go into competition with anybody else. He knows how essential it is that this Bill be put into operation and that the other Bills arising out of the convention be enacted so that the convention may be ratified.

I am glad we all agree on the fine work done by the Red Cross Society in this country as a voluntary organisation. Certainly in a very short time they have built up a very efficient organisation in many directions, and they are to be complimented, and the people should express their congratulations to them and assist them and give them more help than they do. I would like to see in every area an efficient, well-organised, effective branch of the Red Cross. I would also like to see the life-saving and other activities of that body taken to heart by the people, because it is a great thing if some accident occurs to have somebody near at hand, known practically to everybody, who knows what to do in an emergency—whether drowning or shock or whatever it may be. I would commend the Irish Red Cross to the people of this country in a very positive way, and I can assure the Irish Red Cross Society of my Government's appreciation of their services both now and in the past and our appreciation of the services which I am sure they will render in the future.

Question put and agreed to.
Committee Stage ordered for Wednesday, 3rd November, 1954.
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