In speaking to this amendment when the debate was adjourned, the one thing we were anxious to ensure was that there should be more cohesion between the board and the club and, with that object in view, we hoped that the club would be able to assist the board in improving the industry. The object of the Bill is to improve the greyhound industry. As I have already stated in speaking on this provision, I speak as one who is associated in a small way with the Irish Coursing Club, and I feel it is a reasonable request to make that the club should help the board. In making that request, I feel I am making a request in the national interest. If the club, as a result of its work during the years it has been in existence is able, through its revenue, to assist the board, I think it should do so; and, on the other hand, the board should assist the club, if that is necessary. There should be greater co-operation between these bodies. If the money is available in the club to an extent that is worthwhile, it should be in a position to help the board a good deal more.
Greyhound Industry Bill, 1955—Committee Stage (Resumed).
There is nothing in the Bill to prevent the club contributing to the board, if it wishes to do so. The effect of this amendment would be to authorise the board to request from the club contributions from the club's funds as, and when, the board thought fit. I believe that the board is furnished with a sufficient revenue for the purpose of improving the racing end of the industry from the levies it is authorised to collect from the betting public through the bookmakers and the tote and that it does not require to supplement that income from any other source. I want the club to have its revenues to use for the improvement of breeding and coursing and I do not want anyone to have a statutory right to take from the club any of the funds which it has and which it could use for those purposes.
If, however, the club wishes at any time to offer the board a specific sum to do some specific task for it, it is quite free to do so, but we are trying, as best we may under this legislation, to set up a situation in which the board will primarily concern itself with racing and matters relating thereto and with the improving of amenities and stakes so as to raise the general standard of greyhound racing, and in which they shall have the revenues derived from the levies on bets, and at the same time, the Irish Coursing Club will retain its functions primarily relating to coursing and breeding and the keeping of the stud book, and shall have its income for those purposes. That seems to me to be an equitable and sensible arrangement and I am quite satisfied that, from the levies proposed, the board will have ample income for its purposes and that there is no justification whatever for giving the board the right further to supplement that ample income by requesting from the Irish Coursing Club such sums as the board may from time to time feel inclined to request, without the consent of the Irish Coursing Club.
I want to submit to the House that this argument is really in a large measure unrealistic because the board will consist as to more than 50 per cent. of elected members of the Standing Committee of the Irish Coursing Club and if both parties—and we must assume in these circumstances that if the industry is to thrive and prosper, as I hope it will, the board and the executive committee of the Irish Coursing Club will work in the closest collaboration—think it is mutually advantageous that the executive committee of the Irish Coursing Club should ask the board to do some chore for it, in consideration of the executive committee reimbursing the board for any outlay involved in doing the chore they are asked to do, there is nothing to prevent such an arrangement being entered into between the board and the executive committee of the Irish Coursing Club. I would suggest that Deputies would not press forward with what is a wholly unnecessary and what could be a most vexatious approach—that the board should have the right to make a statutory request on the Irish Coursing Club for part of its funds which generally should be kept by the Irish Coursing Club for purposes of improving breeding and coursing, leaving the board the task of improving racing and ancillary matters out of the income that would become available to them through a levy on bets.
I fail to see where the Minister has given any evidence to substantiate his suggestion that this amendment is vexatious. It is a most reasonable amendment in so far as it is permissive. It says the board may. The word "may" is very important. Does the Minister not appreciate the fact that the occasion could arise, and possibly will arise in the very near future if certain developments take place, when the Irish Coursing Club will have very large funds indeed through the realisation of assets? It is possible that, in the near future, the club will have much more money than they would require to deal with the question of breeding and coursing. I was very interested to hear the Minister specifically mention breeding and coursing. For the first time, he suggested that the Irish Coursing Club were more or less dealing exclusively with breeding and coursing. There was no mention of racing. He said the board would deal with all ancillary matters—greyhound racing and all that.
And only racing.
This is a new development.
I want the Minister to realise that consideration of the Bill would have been completed sooner if such reasonable amendments as mine were accepted by him. The fact is that since the House discussed this amendment on the last occasion, it has come to light that the Irish Coursing Club are possibly about to cash in on some of their greatest assets. The main point of the amendment is this: if there are more moneys in the possession of the Irish Coursing Club than will be needed for the improvement of breeding and coursing, would it not be a good idea that the board could require them to contribute from that surplus cash? If the club have surplus cash—and they may have quite a considerable amount of it in the near future—plus a continuing large amount of revenue down through the years, would the Minister not agree with me that, through the obtaining of some of such moneys from the club, the board might be able to reduce the levy? The Minister has stated that this levy is more or less to see how things go for the first year. Obviously, the board cannot get any money from the club if the club have not got a surplus.
The Racing Board should have funds enough under the provisions made for them. I do not see why they should have access to further funds. In fact, I anticipate they will have a surplus of funds after some years' operation. The Irish Coursing Club assets have been built up over the years. They represent a creditable performance on the part of the Committee of the Irish Coursing Club and I do not see why the Racing Board should have access to them. I can only think that the amendments have been drafted for the purpose of reducing or attacking the Standing Committee of the Irish Coursing Club. There is no fear that the Racing Board will be short of funds. If anything, they should have substantial funds to carry on their business.
The more we discuss this Bill from section to section, the more we forget what is in the sections themselves and the more we become confused. Deputy Barry, by way of interjection, said categorically — and the Minister nodded his head in confirmation and approval—that the board would be exclusively concerned with matters of racing as distinct from coursing activities. That was stated, and I wonder if the Minister now adheres to it. I would bring to his notice sub-section (5) and subsequent sub-sections of Section 16 which say that, among other matters, the board will apply its funds to the following purposes:—
"(v) The preservation of hares, and the care and management of hares in connection with authorised coursing meetings,
(vi) assisting the club in the performance of its functions or contributing to the cost of schemes operated by the club for the improvement and development of greyhound breeding and coursing,
(vii) any purpose conducive to the development of the export trade in greyhounds,
(viii) any other purpose conducive to the improvement and development of the greyhound industry."
Surely to goodness Deputy Barry cannot now adhere to the viewpoint that the board is going to deal exclusively with the racing of greyhounds?
The racing of greyhounds is really the industry. Nothing else comes in but racing.
I think the Minister is quite alive to the fact that the basis of the industry is the breeding and the coursing and that the racing of greyhounds is, if you like, a development of the commercial side.
It is the industry.
There is an industry attached to grey hounds which never goes near the racing track.
It is not an industry. There is no money in it.
The Deputy wants to confuse the issue and to cover up the mistake he made in his interjection.
What about stud fees and all that?
Pounds, shillings and pence are involved in the whole thing. The man who sends a bitch to the stud has to pay a fee. You start off right there. When the litter arrives they are not given away. They are sold. Thus, the breeding industry is a big activity. I admit that the coursing side of the thing can be regarded clearly as sport, although at the big coursing events you have betting attached to it; when there is a big coursing event on, you will see in any paper the betting odds of the various dogs that are contesting. Deputy O'Malley's amendment simply says: "Because the board will have certain responsibilities and certain activities they should have some other source besides their income from the bookmakers in order to meet their expenses." The board may have to appeal for assistance to the Irish Coursing Club. The income from the racing side which will flow into the Exchequer and the board is problematical. That will only be resolved as a result of trial and error. As regards the levy on the public and the tax on the tote nobody will know what the income will be until at least three or four years have passed.
Has the Deputy any fear about its amount?
I am putting it to the Deputy that we should approach this question in a sensible and practical way so that at a later stage we will not have to bring in amendments to remedy something which will not work because at this stage we forgot to put in a certain cog amongst the wheels. Everybody hopes that the income will be sufficient to meet the board's requirements so that it may not be necessary to have a levy on the public at all, but nobody knows at the moment.
As I have said, Section 16 clearly makes the board responsible for the rendering of specific services to the club. Perhaps Deputy Barry will look at these provisions if I read them out. Sub-sections (v), (vi), (vii) and (viii) are all the sub-sections putting the responsibility on the shoulders of the board to do these things exclusively for the Irish Coursing Club. Deputy O'Malley wants to provide in his amendment for the situation which may arise where the board may feel that because they are rendering these services they need some financial assistance and that therefore they should be allowed not to demand it immediately or to demand it continuously but from time to time to come along and say: "We want £500 this year. We have a lot of travelling to do on your behalf."
It does not say that. It says it "may require" them.
I am sure Deputy O'Malley will not repudiate what I am saying. I take it that is what is in his mind and if the Minister wants to make it——
Will the Deputy substitute the words "may request" the club? That is all, but Deputy MacEntee says the Deputy is not to accept that.
Deputy MacEntee is explaining to me the difference between "require" and "request"——
He sees the difference.
——which I confess I was not quite able to see. However, the sense of the amendment is that if the board can show to the club that they have engaged in certain activities which have involved them in certain expense that should be borne normally by the club, they may negotiate with them, as the Minister has said, may require them to meet them.
No, may request them.
As I say, I still cannot see the difference.
Deputy MacEntee sees the difference.
Deputy MacEntee has a lot more experience and knowledge than I have in dealing with draftsmen and the amendment of provisions. I have not had that experience and consequently I am not prepared to say I will accept or reject——
Would the word "request" satisfy Deputy Briscoe?
Will the Minister say what is the difference?
One gives the board mandatory power and the other gives it power simply to negotiate.
To make a request which could be refused?
Yes.
I want to put the board in the position that if they give a sufficient reason to the club they will be recouped for certain expenses. I take it Deputy Barry in the meantime has glanced at Section 16 and the sub-sections to which I have referred and he will see the sense of what I am saying. If, as the Minister seems to think, there is complete and adequate co-operation between the representatives of the Irish Coursing Club on the board and the appointed members of the board, there would be no difficulty in having such matters resolved. On the other hand, it is quite possible that some years from now the appointed members of the board and the elected representatives of the executive of the Irish Coursing Club will be in conflict, because obviously the elected representatives of the Irish Coursing Club on this board, if they are properly representative of the club, would have the interests of the club mainly at heart and would resist as far as possible paying for something that they could get for nothing.
I can see the club saying at some stage: "This is not our job. You must do this." They could refer to Section 16 and say: "The club is not responsible for the preservation of hares and the management of hares in connection with various coursing meetings. That is the board's job." That may occur as a result of the club discovering that that would cost money and that there would be no recoupment from the club by the board. I was astonished when Deputy Barry said that the board will conduct activities exclusively connected with greyhound racing. Is he now satisfied that the board has much wider responsibility?
Very slightly wider.
We have come some distance. If the two of us were greyhounds and one of us won by that slight distance, it would make all the difference. Even in a photo finish there is a difference.
I will only take two minutes to say what I have to say.
There are some people who are gifted by Providence in being able to say in three words what it takes me an hour to say but that is not my fault. I am trying to express what I have to say in the hope that, thick as I may be, others will understand me. A long period of time has elapsed since this Bill was before us previously and the Minister has had an opportunity to go over all the discussions and to see whether he could change his mind or his approach from what he previously expressed it to be, or if he is still sticking to the rigid word for word, line for line, section for section, details of the Bill as presented.
I offered to accept that amendment if the Deputy changed one word—"require" to "request".
The Minister has forbidden me accepting that change because he has himself defined the meaning of the word "request".
The Deputy proposed the word "request".
No; I proposed that there should be a change.
The Deputy knows that the board will have four members of the Irish Coursing Club Standing Committee out of a total membership of seven and, therefore, if they make a request, the request will obviously be acceded to.
No. At this stage I am of the opinion that, so long as the word "request" has been defined as meaning a demand that need not be met, it does not have the same connotation as "require". I want the Minister to understand that he can put in a safeguard and, if the requirement appears to be far greater in amount than the club would be willing to meet, there should be a saving clause; some person should be brought in to arbitrate, if you like, or seek a compromise as between the differences of the two interests. If the Minister thinks that the amendment, if it is embodied in the Bill, might create possibilities of too large demands from the board to the club, then there could be a saving clause.
I was rather taken by surprise when I heard this Bill was coming on to-day because we have had so many false starts in the past few weeks. I was not ready to go into the trap. I did not have a chance of going over our recent discussions. Now that I am getting back into the position of being able to appreciate what was in my mind before, there is sense in this amendment and, if it is not accepted, we will be doing the board and the public a grievous harm; if the board is to render services to the club, which will involve the board in expenditure large or small, that should not be recouped from the public through the levies. Therefore, I appeal to the Minister to be reasonable about this. Even if he is prepared to say: "There is some sense in the thing and we will have another go at it; it may be possible to reach agreement on it", I will be satisfied. But if the Minister's answer is a definite "No", I am afraid we cannot let up on it because there is this definite requirement in Section 16 for the board to do jobs, jobs which will cost money, for the Irish Coursing Club.
I am sorry Deputy Burke has gone because I am sure he would agree with me——
Deputy Burke is here. Surely to goodness, he is big enough to be seen.
I am sorry. He would agree with me, I am sure, that coursing is the better part of the sport but racing is the major industry. That is the view held by those who have been interested in coursing and devoted to greyhounds for many years. I am quite jealous of the activities of the Coursing Club. I do not want those activities interfered with. Neither do I want demands made upon the club. On the contrary, I think this new board should provide any help coursing wants.
I should like to be very reasonable, but my experience has been that coursing has always had to be helped. Meetings are run in a small way in local districts. I think it is a good thing to have a body like the Racing Board, which has access to considerable funds, to help these small meetings to carry on. I have not the slightest doubt as to the funds which will be made available to the new Racing Board as a result of this levy on the bet and on the tote. I am quite sure the funds will be quite adequate and will not require to have anything contributed to them from the funds of the Irish Coursing Club. The flow, indeed, may be in the other direction. But one has to have a safeguard. One has four members of the Irish Coursing Club on the board and, from what I know of the members, I am sure they will be matter-of-fact and intelligent in the way they meet one another.
If anything, I think the assistance must come from the tracks to the mother industry which creates the goods the tracks display for sale. That is the way in which I looked upon the investigation. That is the way in which I look upon this legislation. All we are trying to do is so to improve the shop window—the racing track— to clean it up and make sure the right product is properly displayed that the industry as a whole and the farmer, who breeds the raw material, will get better and more rewarding results. I think there is no danger whatever about any shortage of funds or any excessive demands being made on the Racing Board.
All this boils down really to the question as to which is more important, the beginning or the end. I think there is a certain measure of agreement as between Deputy Barry and my colleagues. Deputy Barry has said that racing is, in fact, the industry. Racing has now become almost the beginning and the end of the industry. Without racing, there would be no greyhound breeding industry of any commercial value.
In this Bill we are dealing with an industry. The Bill itself is entitled "The Greyhound Industry Bill". It is the interests of the industry, therefore, that ought to be our primary concern. I do not think there will be much difference of opinion between us from that point of view. I think that the Minister has, therefore, been ill-advised in trying to divorce racing from breeding and coursing. Certainly one cannot divorce breeding from racing. The majority of pups bred are bred for the racetrack and, from that point of view, it is of primary importance that, right from the beginning, this board should be placed in a paramount position in relation to the industry and everything that appertains to it.
It should from the beginning also be placed in possession of the resources which will enable it to fulfil the functions this legislation will impose upon it and, it is in order to ensure that, that Deputy O'Malley put down this amendment. He put it down on behalf of those of us who have taken an interest in this Bill, because we were coerced into the belief that, unless there was a radical change in the control, management, direction and policy, even of the reformed Irish Coursing Club, the provisions in the Bill would be found in practice to be ineffective. That is the reason we put down this amendment.
We put it down, in fact, with full advertence to the report of the committee of which Deputy Barry was a member. Let me say at once it is a very useful report and I think it redounds greatly to the credit of the members of that committee. They must have given an enormous amount of personal time and attention to it. What I am concerned about now is to ensure that the fruits of their labours will not be lost. Since we are legislating in consequence of the report of the committee, if not in fulfilment of its recommendations, we should at any rate try to ensure that, where the committee have pointed to failures in practice on the part of the Irish Coursing Club, there will not be a repetition of these things in the future.
I have in mind what the committee said in paragraph 111 at page 45 of the report. Having referred to the position of the Greyhound and Sporting Press, they went on to say:—
"Despite these liquid assets and the fact that the assets and property of the Greyhound and Sporting Press, Ltd., must be regarded as being held in trust for the Irish Coursing Club, it appears that this concern has never contributed any portion of its substantial profits to the Irish Coursing Club. Its profits have either been ploughed back through the construction of buildings, installation of plant, etc., or invested elsewhere."
As I said, the purpose of this amendment is to give the board a certain degree of financial control over the Irish Coursing Club to ensure that any surplus income accruing to the Irish Coursing Club will, if the board considers it reasonable to do so, be appropriated by the board for the general purposes for which the board has been constituted, that is to say, for the benefit of the greyhound industry.
I might go on to point out what the report says in the concluding sentence of this paragraph:—
"We cannot therefore accept as sufficient, the explanation as to why the company did not contribute to the funds of the Irish Coursing Club as a whole, during a period when coursing might have received greater financial assistance, e.g., by way of reducing fees, increasing prize money at coursing meetings, or employing additional supervisory staff."
We want to ensure that, if this surplus income does accrue to the club, arising out of the properties which it now holds, it should be made available for the general purposes of the board. These are properties which, we have been told, are really held in trust for the members of the Irish Coursing Club — properties which have been acquired admittedly as a result of careful management on the part of the standing committee of the club—but they have ultimately resulted because of the activities of those who breed, course and race greyhounds in this country.
We do not suggest that the board should be given powers of arbitrary decision in relation to that matter. We are only asking that this board—a majority of the members of which will be members of the Irish Coursing Club —be put in the position to make such requirements as are in the opinion of the board reasonable. I am sure that the Minister or nobody else will suggest that the four members of the Irish Coursing Club on the board will act in an unreasonably harsh or unjustifiable way towards their colleagues in the Irish Coursing Club. I think it is unthinkable to envisage such an idea.
Having regard to the fact that we must regard coursing, breeding and racing as component parts of the greyhound industry, or essential elements in the greyhound industry, I do not see any reasonable objection to accepting an amendment of this sort, which will confirm the board in a position of having primary and paramount responsibility for the greyhound industry as a whole. I am sure that when the arguments which I have used are considered—if we can consider them now after a lapse of time in a reasonable way and exchange counsels—the amendment which we have suggested will be accepted by the Minister.
I would ask the Minister to turn to paragraphs 146 and 151 of the Report of the Advisory Committee. I think Deputy Barry was in agreement with these paragraphs. Paragraph 146 says:—
"That all fees in connection with coursing and breeding, as defined by the Irish Coursing Club and approved by the Control Board, be paid to the Irish Coursing Club...."
It goes on:—
"The Control Board to be entitled to demand out of Irish Coursing Club funds recoupment of any expenditure incurred by it in respect of coursing or breeding, or, alternatively, the payment of an annual levy to meet possible expenditure arising out of action necessarily taken by the board to deal with abuses in connection with breeding or coursing...."
If you like, this amendment accepts that recommendation. Paragraph 151 says:—
"As the new club will receive income——"
The Deputy did not finish paragraph 146.
I can finish it. It is inherent in the paragraph that there shall be recoupment by the board.
Would the Deputy go on to read the rest of it?
Yes. It says:—
"Equally, however, we foresee that circumstances may arise in which the board might at its discretion decide to make a grant towards the funds of the Irish Coursing Club."
We are not interfering with that. We are only dealing with the first part. They are both possible eventualities. We agree that, if it is right for the board to require a contribution from the club, it may also be necessary for the club to require a contribution from the board.
Will you give them the power to require contributions from one another?
Yes.
If the board requires a contribution of £100 from the club on Monday, the club might require a contribution from the board of £100 on Tuesday.
That is introducing an element of farce.
Would that not be absurdity?
We are discussing services rendered. Paragraph 151 says, and Deputy Barry subscribed to this, too:—
"As the new club will receive considerable income from breeding and coursing interests, it—rather than the control board—will be expected to undertake primary responsibility for schemes for the improvement of standards in coursing matters...."
Schemes of breeding and so forth.
Keep on reading.
Yes, but the point I am making here is that, notwithstanding that recommendation that these matters be done by the Irish Coursing Club the Bill, when it becomes an Act, will require some of these matters to be done by the board, and not at the expense of the club.
Paragraph 150 says:—
"We have already recommended that all fees in connection with coursing and breeding should be lodged with the reorganised Irish Coursing Club and that the club should be charged with responsibility for the publication of The Sporting Press, and for the printing business known as The Greyhound and Sporting Press, Limited. Consequently the new club will have a sizable annual income. We have previously proposed that final appeal should lie with the Control Board in respect of the financial operations of the club.”
The advisory committee admits, first of all, that the club has very considerable assets, fixed and liquid. As a result of the Bill as it is framed, the club will have an enhanced income——
And so, I hope, will the board.
That is the hope. That is the speculative side of it. You have a certain position at the moment. You are going to have that position definitely improved. The board is going to start from scratch. It has power to borrow at the beginning to keep itself going for a certain period. But what I am trying to get the Minister to accept is that where the club is going to have enhanced income—very substantially enhanced income—at least, if the board is doing a job on behalf of or for the benefit of the Irish Coursing Club, it should be entitled to a contribution from the Irish Coursing Club and the board should be entitled to ask for a contribution.
If the Minister says he will take out those sections—Sections 5, 6, 7 and 8, which I read out—from the Bill and put that responsibility back on the Irish Coursing Club, subject to the over-all control of the board, it might alter the position I have taken in arguing this amendment. But so long as those are there, I say, in all equity, to everybody concerned: you must give the board power and authority to collect from the club at least what they lay out for the benefit of the club.
Is there no hope that we might get some acceptance of constructive proposals we are putting forward? Is this Bill just to be thrown to the Dáil and are we to have these long discussions on section by section, without any prospect that the Minister will try to listen to the arguments we are making?
I have said that I am accepting this amendment in toto, subject to the change of one word suggested by Deputy Briscoe, and Deputy MacEntee promptly repudiates it.
The Minister knows just as well as I do that to accept that word could be to disembowel the amendment. He knows that.
It was Deputy Briscoe's proposal and I was quite willing to accept it.
I will admit that I made a proposal which the Minister grabbed at too quickly. My suggestion had not the implication that is now put on it.
Is there no prospect even that, if necessary, there could be an overriding limit to the amount which might be required? That would be one way of dealing with this—that the board might require the club to contribute a certain proportion of its surplus income—surplus income, let me emphasise—to the board to assist it in fulfilling its functions. I think that is perhaps one way of finding a compromise as between the Minister's point of view and the point of view of those who sit on these benches.
The Minister cannot shut his eyes to the fact that the Report of the Advisory Committee points out that there have been certain detects of judgment—I do not want to put it any higher than that—in the conduct of the affairs of the Irish Coursing Club in the past. It may have been that they were pursuing a policy of building up assets, with the general idea of advancing the industry, but, in the meantime, these assets have been built up at a time, as Deputy Barry has told us when he previously spoke, when coursing clubs have had to be helped. The help that was given to them was not, I think, sufficient.
We are pretty anxious that, when this Racing Board starts off, it will be endowed with everything that is essential to enable it to function successfully. It is quite clear that at the beginning it will have no assets whatever, no source of income which will not be, as Deputy Briscoe has said, of a speculative nature. There have been slumps in greyhound racing before, as those who have been associated with the sport in any way know and, unfortunately, there are not any grounds for hoping that the past will not repeat itself in this regard.
For that reason, if the Minister would be prepared to accept or draft an amendment which would give the Racing Board some assured source of income from the very beginning, sufficient to enable it to function as I am sure he wants it to function, then we would be satisfied. We are certainly prepared to have an element of give and take in this, provided that the principle is accepted that the Racing Board will have a degree of control over the financial operations of the Irish Coursing Club. I think we are justified in asking for that, having regard to the findings of the Advisory Committee.
Tá
- Allen, Denis.
- Bartley, Gerard.
- Beegan, Patrick.
- Blaney, Neil T.
- Boland, Gerald.
- Brady, Seán.
- Brennan, Joseph.
- Brennan, Paudge.
- de Valera, Eamon.
- de Valera, Vivion.
- Egan, Kieran P.
- Egan, Nicholas.
- Flynn, Stephen.
- Gilbride, Eugene.
- Gogan, Richard.
- Hilliard, Michael.
- Kennedy, Michael J.
- Killilea, Mark.
- Breslin, Cormac.
- Briscoe, Robert.
- Burke, Patrick J.
- Calleary, Phelim A.
- Carter, Frank.
- Colbert, Michael.
- Collins, James J.
- Derrig, Thomas.
- MacEntee, Seán.
- McGrath, Patrick.
- Maher, Peadar.
- Mooney, Patrick.
- Moylan, Seán.
- Ó Briain, Donnchadh.
- Ryan, James.
- Smith, Patrick.
- Walsh, Thomas.
Níl
- Barry, Anthony.
- Barry, Richard.
- Blowick, Joseph.
- Burke, James J.
- Byrne, Patrick.
- Byrne, Thomas.
- Carew, John.
- Coburn, George.
- Corish, Brendan.
- Cosgrove, Liam.
- Costello, John A.
- Crotty, Patrick J.
- Crowe, Patrick.
- Deering, Mark.
- Desmond, Daniel.
- Dillon, James M.
- Dockrell, Henry P.
- Donnellan, Michael.
- Doyle, Peadar S.
- Esmonde, Anthony C.
- Everett, James.
- Fagan, Charles.
- Flanagan, Oliver J.
- Giles, Patrick.
- Glynn, Brendan M.
- Hession, James M.
- Hughes, Joseph.
- Kenny, Henry.
- Kyne, Thomas A.
- Larkin, Denis.
- Larkin, James.
- Lindsay, Patrick J.
- MacBride, Seán.
- McGilligan, Patrick.
- McMenamin, Daniel.
- Manley, Timothy.
- Morrissey, Dan.
- Mulcahy, Richard.
- Murphy, Michael P.
- Murphy, William.
- O'Carroll, Maureen.
- O'Donnell, Patrick.
- O'Donovan, John.
- O'Hara, Thomas.
- O'Higgins, Michael J.
- O'Higgins, Thomas F.
- O'Reilly, Patrick.
- O'Sullivan, Denis J.
- Palmer, Patrick W.
- Pattison, James P.
- Roddy, Joseph.
- Rooney, Eamonn.
- Sheldon, William A.W.
- Spring, Dan.
- Sweetman, Gerard.
- Tully, James.
- Tully, John.
I move amendment No. 16a:—
In Section 26, to add to the section the following new sub-sections:—
(a) On the coming into operation of this Act and pending the making by him of the Order under sub-section (6) of this section the Minister shall make an Order appointing an independent qualified person as receiver to administer the affairs of the club.
(b) On the coming into operation of this Act and pending the making by him of the Order under sub-section (6) of this section the Minister shall make an Order appointing an independent qualified person as receiver and manager to carry on the business of the Greyhound and Sporting Press, Limited, for the sole benefit and advantage of the club.
(c) On the coming into operation of this Act and pending the making by him of the Order under sub-section (6) of this section the Minister shall make an Order appointing an independent qualified person as receiver and manager of Powerstown Park, Limited, to administer the affairs of the club for the sole benefit and advantage of the club.
Is there any chance that, in the changed circumstances, this amendment might be withdrawn?
I am not aware of any change in the circumstances.
I understood the Deputy apprehended there might be some sales of property by the Irish Coursing Club as he asked me a parliamentary question in that regard, and, in the light of the reply, I thought he might consider this amendment unnecessary.
I regret it has become more necessary than ever. This amendment arises from the fact that, between now and the enactment of this Bill by the Oireachtas and the President, presumably a substantial period of time will elapse. Furthermore, it is, I think, implicit in some of the statements made by the Minister that he will not proceed to appoint a day until a much later date than that upon which the Bill becomes law. Meantime, it is well to remind the House that the Irish Coursing Club has very substantial assets, which, as Deputies who remember the debate on the preceding amendment will recall, have not been utilised to the benefit and advantage of the Irish Coursing Club.
I can assure the Deputy that there is no intention of allowing any protracted period to arise between the enactment of the Bill and the making of the Order bringing it into force.
That may be. If so, the danger which I apprehended has become somewhat reduced, but it still exists. It has not disappeared. The danger I fear is that between now and the time when the Minister can exercise authority over the affairs of this club by appointing the day and bringing the board into existence, the assets now the property of the club, may be dissipated.
Between the passing of the Act and the making of the appointed day.
The Minister will permit me to continue. I am aware, of course, that there are certain weaknesses in our position because we are only discussing legislative proposals. There is no statutory authority which would allow the Minister to say to the gentlemen of the Irish Coursing Club: "Unless you preserve the assets of the club intact to be handed over to the club on the appointed day in accordance with the letter and the spirit of the Bill now before the House, I shall, before the Bill becomes law, take power to hold you responsible for the safe custody of those assets."
The Minister has at the moment no effective power of control, but at least if the Legislature embodies the amendment in the legislation which it is now considering, those who have custody of these assets will at least have been forewarned as to the course of action which the Oireachtas expects them to pursue in regard to them.
I was going on to remind the House when the Minister interrupted me that the Irish Coursing Club has very substantial assets. It has, among other things, the Greyhound and Sporting Press, Limited. It has, as well as that, the control of Powerstown Park which its holding in Powerstown Park, Limited, confers upon it. The assets are considerable. According to the report, in February of 1952, when the report was being drafted, the valuation—I have no authority for this statement beyond that it seems a reasonable assumption—placed on the Greyhound and Sporting Press, Limited, by the representatives of the Irish Coursing Club was no less than £60,000.
I have no reason to believe that that valuation has been reduced. On the contrary, the probabilities are that it has been substantially increased. I think, apart altogether from printing, the Sporting Press carry out other printing work for the Irish Coursing Club itself. The Greyhound and Sporting Press is now printing news papers for other interests. I assume that they are interests which could be disentangled from the operations of the Greyhound and Sporting Press but they are, I understand, operations which are conducted on behalf of persons who occupy positions as officers of the Sporting Press. I understand, in fact, that there is a provincial weekly newspaper with a very substantial circulation being printed by the Greyhound and Sporting Press.